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garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus
reply to fifty nine

Re: Generac GP17500E Generator

said by fifty nine:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I think a lot of people object to generators running all night. I know around here most shut them down about 10 to 11 pm for the night. It does help the sleep situation not to have generators running everywhere.

I can run mine all night, no one seems to care.

This is about a portable generator, they're usually pretty loud.

A lot depends on the neighbors, the distances, whatever. My Generac 5 KW portable, with an auto muffler, is noisy enough to need to be shut off at 11:00. Besides, (unlike the OP, who has a medical device need for constant power) it would just be a waste of fuel to run the thing at night. Open the windows for air, the refrigerator will be fine for 12 hours and go to sleep.


TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
kudos:2

If one is going to have propane anyway, one could look into getting a propane/electric dual power source refrigerator. You know the propane refrigerators they use in RV's?
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified



SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL
reply to Mr Matt

said by Mr Matt:

When the second AC failed to start did the engine stall or did the circuit breaker trip?

Mine are the newer "puron" scroll type units and they have a higher starting current than a older standard compressor. it would not trip a breaker or stall out, instead when the second unit tried to start the AC's control circuit would apparently sense a low voltage and trip out. So which ever one was second starting would try to kick in, for about 200ms, and then give up. Occasionally it would get started, once started it's fine. My thoughts are that the attempted starts are not a good thing, so I always just disable one unit.


TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
kudos:2
Reviews:
·HughesNet Satell..
·WesTex Connect

I wonder if there is some kind of in-line capacitor you could get, you know that work on the same concept as capacitors for automotive subwoofers?

Or maybe the existing capacitors in the a/c's could be replaced with bigger ones?

--
CompTIA Network+ Certified


Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

1 edit
reply to SwedishRider

Channel One was there any exception for a genset with an integrated fuel tank related to the number of permits required.

During the last quarter of 2010 I contacted the building department about installing a diesel generator at my home. A building inspector stated that as long as the generator had a integrated fuel than and the slab it rested extended beyond the base tank by a specified number of inches there would be no issue getting a permit. Would you know if the exception cited for generators with integrated fuel tanks applies to all installations or does it depend on the city where the generator is being installed

With respect to iknow's comment regarding idling diesel engines you and the mechanic are both correct. I found the follow articles regarding the issues brought up by the mechanic regarding to operating a diesel engine with insufficient loading:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_generator (See engine damage)

and

»coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pa···ing.aspx

Engines used in traction applications will frequently be operated at close to full load capacity when the vehicle is accelerating burning off any carbon build up.

Regarding the controversy with my neighbor regarding the installation of a generator, it occurred during the last quarter of 2010. By the second quarter of 2011 he abandoned his home. His house was so far under water that he installed a weather vane on it with a fish on it. I did not force the issue because I decided to look for a single story home in a subdivision that had natural gas available. Unfortunately that did not work out so I am still in the same house.

Here are some interesting documents regarding the rules related to locating propane tanks:

»www.propane101.com/propanetankdi···ules.htm

»www.propane101.com/images/propan···nces.gif

Edit: The most important fact that I learned from the above article was that two 120 Gallon propane tanks have about the same capacity as one 250 gallon tank but can be located directly next to a structure. Any tank over 100 gallons must be located at least 10 feet from a structure.



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

said by Mr Matt:

Regarding the controversy with my neighbor regarding the installation of a generator, it occurred during the last quarter of 2010. By the second quarter of 2011 he abandoned his home. His house was so far under water that he installed a weather vane on it with a fish on it. I did not force the issue because I decided to look for a single story home in a subdivision that had natural gas available. Unfortunately that did not work out so I am still in the same house.

Here are some interesting documents regarding the rules related to locating propane tanks:

»www.propane101.com/propanetankdi···ules.htm

»www.propane101.com/images/propan···nces.gif

Edit: The most important fact that I learned from the above article was that two 120 Gallon propane tanks have about the same capacity as one 250 gallon tank but can be located directly next to a structure. Any tank over 100 gallons must be located at least 10 feet from a structure.

I don't think you understand propane pricing vs tank ownership vs tank sizing. In a nutshell, if your plan was to lease those 120 gallon tanks, you are going to get HAMMERED on propane pricing, as you'll potentially pay a leasing cost PER TANK that is assessed PER GALLON, which will drive the price up substantially. The key to getting a good price on propane is to OWN YOUR TANK and buy as big as you can afford. My last fillup price was $1.61/gal for my propane. Why? Because propane prices have collapsed AND I own my 500 gallon buried tank. Folks who lease their tanks pay higher, folks with smaller tanks pay substantially higher.... it's just the way it works.

You seem reluctant to go the way of a larger tank, but you are shooting yourself in the foot on pricing by doing so. If you go the route of the big tank, you can supply propane to other appliances down the road as you choose to expand your system (or not, your choice). I run furnace, tankless hot water heater, oven, dryer, BBQ grill and portable generator off my propane system. A propane tank can hold 80% of capacity, so my 500 gallon tank can house 400 gallons of propane at any time.

Get out your tape measure and see if you can find an appropriate location that meets the 10' distances rule I posted, and then look at your house and find a spot that a secondary regulator could be attached to enter your home. That secondary regulator on your house needs to be basically 5' from anything (check out specifics here: »Second Stage Propane Regulator Vent Distances)

I'm not sure why you gave your neighbor so much authority over your property, but he's gone and it's your house. It's your choice at this point. First take your measurements and make a plan... then take it from there..

Aranarth

join:2011-11-04
Stanwood, MI
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to stomperz71

I believe insurance rates are lower for a buried tank as well. If it blows the shockwave goes up not out. Makes for a deep crater but your house will still be there.

I have also thought about getting a 17.5kw Generac.

I have a 500gal propane tank that runs a tankless hot water, dryer, and stove. But my heating is open loop geothermal run off of a 4" 60ft well which also supplies water to the house. Getting the heating or cooling started takes a huge amount of startup surge current. I would probably need to go to the next size larger would not be as efficient to handle the startup current of the geothermal and well starting at the same time.

The geothermal can be switched to emergency propane heat but I don't know if it will do it automatically without user intervention.

This being Michigan I can guarantee at least 2 days a year when we loose power either because of a heat wave, tree down, or cold snap.
Luckily we rarely get tornadoes, eathquakes, or massive forest fires. (Yep michigan is a boring place to live. )



49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
reply to Mr Matt

said by Mr Matt:

Channel One was there any exception for a genset with an integrated fuel tank related to the number of permits required.

What is required here is a double walled fuel tank consisting of a an inner tank which contains the fuel and an outer tank which must be capable of containing any leak of the inner tank, the only exception to a double walled tank is to use a single wall tank and place it with a retention pit capable of containing twice the capacity of the fuel tank and equipped with a sump pump that is connected through a hydrocarbon detector which will ensure the sump pump will cease operation if fuel is detected within the pit.

Around here it is common to find diesel gensets where the generator is mounted atop of the fuel tank.

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to TheTechGuru

said by TheTechGuru:

I wonder if there is some kind of in-line capacitor you could get, you know that work on the same concept as capacitors for automotive subwoofers?

Capacitors work great for DC applications where they store electric energy and release it on demand. That doesn't work for AC due to the constantly changing voltage.

An equivalent device for AC is the ferroresonant transformer (or CVT constant voltage transformer) that could be used in this situation but it is not a perfect fit for motor start applications. Because the transformer (which is run fully saturated to store energy in form of magnetic fields) needs to be sized for the maximum inrush current it will have to be very large (=heavy and expensive) with the downside that it will be poorly loaded (=inefficient with high heat loss) when the motor is running (and even when the motor is off).
I have some ferroresonant transformers at work (server room) where they are designed to maintain output power (glitch free) while switching from one 3 phase power bus to the other. They work well with electronic loads.
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iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to 49528867

said by 49528867:

said by iknow:

a diesel would use less fuel, and you could use #2 fuel oil instead of diesel fuel, and it MUCH safer, having 100 gallons of gasoline on your property is VERY dangerous.

One of the problems in many parts of the country with diesel and gasoline in the residential arena is environmental permitting which makes it nearly impossible to site anything other than propane or natural gas gensets.

For example here in South Florida one needs three or four environmental permits (depending on the area) to site a diesel or gasoline powered genset which is a process requiring about 6 to 9 months to process, in addition the owner of the genset must designate at least 1 person on staff (usually the environmental health and safety officer of the corporation) who must hold a certificate in spill mitigation, lacking that the owner must contract with a environmental mitigation firm such as Cliff Berry Environmental and that will run about $600 annually add to that the $250 per year county DERM fee leaving the not so happy owner of a diesel or gasoline powered genset with a reoccurring cost just south of a grand per year.

Wayne

do they require that for lawnmowers, cars, and trucks too, if not then they are clearly targeting something that is only used in emergencies, and for a short time, for nothing at all, and they should know better!. you must be talking about commercial applications, as not many home owners have staff, and especially not "environmental health and safety officer of the corporation". at their house. there are some rich people in florida that may have that, but most people there struggle to make a living, because of the economy in florida, which has always been a problem, being centered on tourism.


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3

said by iknow:

do they require that for lawnmowers, cars, and trucks too, if not then they are clearly targeting something that is only used in emergencies, and for a short time, for nothing at all, and they should know better!.

They could require such a tank for a lawnmower, that is if the homeowner wanted to store a few hundred gallons of a petroleum product on his property.

you must be talking about commercial applications,

Nope the environmental regulations do not define the type of zoning or building they will be applied to they are in place to regulate the storage of hazardous materials such as diesel fuel, gasoline or motor oil regardless of it’s use.

You see when one lives in an area where the aquifer is only a couple dozen feet below the ground which consists primarily of sand one gets real sensitive about fuel spills as it only takes a few gallons into the aquifer to hose up downstream (Easterly) potable water wells.

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
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·CenturyLink

1 recommendation

reply to SwedishRider

With respect to JimCT's response, trying to find a satisfactory location to place the 500 Gallon tank near where all the propane fueled appliances were to be located was like playing wack-a-mole. I could not have the tank buried in the side yard because it must be ten feet from the structure and ten feet from the property line. The set back is ten feet so that did not work. The only solution was to install the tank in the front yard with the access cover in the landscaping. That increased the cost because the yard line would have had to be extended either under the driveway or over the garage.

I developed the idea of purchasing two 100 gallon vertical propane tanks while on vacation. I visited a relative in New Hampshire and noticed many bungalows had large tall propane tanks next to the buildings. I determined that they were #420 ASME tanks. They could be located directly next to the house. I have not yet requested a price quote from local propane distributors.

The original price quote for the turn key installation of a 500 gallon direct burial tank was $1,600 for the tank, $876 for 400 gallons of propane, $425 for rental, delivery of a back hoe and operator to perform the excavation. $450 for labor costs for two propane company employees for 5 hours, to connect the tank to the generator. With other miscellaneous costs the total was $4,008.00

I ran into this problem regarding purchasing propane please see the linked webpage.:

»www.amerigas.com/about/fees.htm

In addition to the other fees, Amerigas quoted about $3.75 a gallon for propane in April. Other local propane dealers quoted around the same price per gallon for 200 gallons delivered. They just did not quote all of the crap charges that Amerigas did.

With respect to iknows response to Channel One, the EPA made things more complex. There are now two categories of stationary diesel generators. Prime power and standby generators. Engines powering prime power generators must meet much stricter emission control standards with respect to particulate and nitrous oxide emissions than standby generators. Although there is no limit to the amount of time a standby generator can be operated when providing emergency power the amount of time the generator can be run for maintenance purposes was 100 hours a year and I believe has been extended to 150 hours a year.

Wit respect to leibold's comment, generators operating at 3600 RPM have a tremendous spinning reserve. The 20 Kw General Electric generator I was considering has a short term surge capability of over 28 Kw. That spinning reserve provides similar extra energy that capacitors would provide in a DC power system. GE claims that the 20 Kw generator can support two 5 Ton air conditioners when used in conjunction with their load management controller.



Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by fifty nine:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I think a lot of people object to generators running all night. I know around here most shut them down about 10 to 11 pm for the night. It does help the sleep situation not to have generators running everywhere.

I can run mine all night, no one seems to care.

Maybe it's they don't want to confront you. People are wary now.

They can confront me if they want, but I'm not turning it off. Neither of my immediate neighbors have generators, but the people next to them do. I would say out 10 houses on our block at least 5 have generators and every single one of them run 24 hours per day. Food is safe in refrigerator for about 4 hours after the power goes off and that assumes the door is not opened. »www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/kee···ndex.asp

During the last two power failures which occurred just a month ago, I was without power for nearly 24 hours each time. My noisy Coleman ran the whole time except between refills. We all slept in one air conditioned room. That is probably the noisiest generator you can own and you can barely hear it if your windows are closed. For those that keep their windows open, I'm sorry. I'm not risking food poisoning on my family and I am not throwing all my food out. They live in a neighborhood where at least half the homes have generators and more are soon to be added. On average now we lose our power for at least two days per year and that's looking back the last 9 years. As much as possible I am going to keep my family safe and comfortable when that happens.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

The reason that I did not push the issue of installing the generator, was that if my neighbor squawked enough, the homeowners association might be concerned about a lawsuit and withhold approval. The biggest problem I would have is getting approval from the homeowners association for the installation. I do not know if this Eustis requires an authorization letter from the homeowners association in order to issue a permit for construction on the property. When I lived in Palm Beach County, Florida a homeowner was required to provide an authorization letter from the homeowners association before the building department would issue a permit for certain construction of improvements such as a fence.

There are other issues that make getting approval for the installation of a generator complicated.

Mount Dora at one time, required, that the electrician installing a generator provide a list of all connected loads assuming that they will all be connected at the same time and then required a generator large enough to provide sufficient power to power all of the loads. That meant that in my case, without load management I would need a 48 Kw generator. Load management controller technology, allows lower capacity generators to be used because loads will automatically be disconnected as the generator approaches overload.

The other issue is EPA certification for Diesel Generators. I was advised by a representative of one manufacture of standby generators, that in many areas electrical inspectors check for EPA certification of a generator and withhold approval of the installation until the electrician provides a copy of the EPA certification. That is why it might be impossible to install a used Diesel Generator.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to Kramer

said by Kramer:

They can confront me if they want, but I'm not turning it off. Neither of my immediate neighbors have generators, but the people next to them do. I would say out 10 houses on our block at least 5 have generators and every single one of them run 24 hours per day. Food is safe in refrigerator for about 4 hours after the power goes off and that assumes the door is not opened. »www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/kee···ndex.asp

During the last two power failures which occurred just a month ago, I was without power for nearly 24 hours each time. My noisy Coleman ran the whole time except between refills. We all slept in one air conditioned room. That is probably the noisiest generator you can own and you can barely hear it if your windows are closed. For those that keep their windows open, I'm sorry. I'm not risking food poisoning on my family and I am not throwing all my food out. They live in a neighborhood where at least half the homes have generators and more are soon to be added. On average now we lose our power for at least two days per year and that's looking back the last 9 years. As much as possible I am going to keep my family safe and comfortable when that happens.

Let's see, after the big Christmas Eve ice storm power was off 7 days. In between that and Isabel several shorter outages. Isabel 17 days in September heat. Several N'Easters, the last outage from storms for 22 hours. Never ran my generator over 16 hours. Down 8 every night. No spoiled food or food poisoning as we're still here. No loss of frozen food from freezer and we even had ice from the icemaker.

I kept my family safe and comfortable and my neighbors were appreciative as I was when they also shut theirs down around 11pm. We didn't have any generators running all night.


SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

said by Jack_in_VA:

I kept my family safe and comfortable and my neighbors were appreciative as I was when they also shut theirs down around 11pm. We didn't have any generators running all night.

It all depends on your circumstances, in the 04 hurricane season I was on generator continuously for a week. At the time my dad was oxygen dependent, so nope it wasn't going to get shut down at night. Still it's a nice quite generator and I did locate it in a location so that the house shielded the sound from the neighbors. Then to be a bit selfish, I don't sleep well without AC anymore, I was out working emergency services 14+ hours each day, when I got home I darn sure wanted to sleep comfy!

The fun part was feeding it gasoline, I think it used around 80 gallons or about $300 worth, for the week. As part of my storm preps I had a 55 gallon drum of gas on hand, still that didn't quite make it. Now my preps call for 2) 55 gallon drums. Any left over just goes into the vehicle after things return to normal.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to Mr Matt

said by Mr Matt:

The reason that I did not push the issue of installing the generator, was that if my neighbor squawked enough, the homeowners association might be concerned about a lawsuit and withhold approval. The biggest problem I would have is getting approval from the homeowners association for the installation. I do not know if this Eustis requires an authorization letter from the homeowners association in order to issue a permit for construction on the property. When I lived in Palm Beach County, Florida a homeowner was required to provide an authorization letter from the homeowners association before the building department would issue a permit for certain construction of improvements such as a fence.

There are other issues that make getting approval for the installation of a generator complicated.

Mount Dora at one time, required, that the electrician installing a generator provide a list of all connected loads assuming that they will all be connected at the same time and then required a generator large enough to provide sufficient power to power all of the loads. That meant that in my case, without load management I would need a 48 Kw generator. Load management controller technology, allows lower capacity generators to be used because loads will automatically be disconnected as the generator approaches overload.

The other issue is EPA certification for Diesel Generators. I was advised by a representative of one manufacture of standby generators, that in many areas electrical inspectors check for EPA certification of a generator and withhold approval of the installation until the electrician provides a copy of the EPA certification. That is why it might be impossible to install a used Diesel Generator.

unless it's a portable one. which is much less involved and cheaper considering all the expenses of a permanent one. btw, homeowners associations suck.


TheTechGuru

join:2004-03-25
TEXAS
kudos:2

Also consider a semi portable one, AKA a stationary generator mounted in/on a trailer.
--
CompTIA Network+ Certified



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to garys_2k

said by garys_2k:

said by fifty nine:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I think a lot of people object to generators running all night. I know around here most shut them down about 10 to 11 pm for the night. It does help the sleep situation not to have generators running everywhere.

I can run mine all night, no one seems to care.

This is about a portable generator, they're usually pretty loud.

A lot depends on the neighbors, the distances, whatever. My Generac 5 KW portable, with an auto muffler, is noisy enough to need to be shut off at 11:00. Besides, (unlike the OP, who has a medical device need for constant power) it would just be a waste of fuel to run the thing at night. Open the windows for air, the refrigerator will be fine for 12 hours and go to sleep.

I have an inverter generator which is in a soundproof enclosure. You can barely hear a small hummmmm from the street. It is inaudible from inside my house. Even at full tilt the sound it produces is about the level of normal speech. That's why I can run it all night.

laserfan

join:2005-01-14
Texas

said by fifty nine:

I have an inverter generator

What's an "inverter generator"? You mean it's powered by batteries/solar? That should be virtually silent except for the hum of transformers?


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by fifty nine:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I think a lot of people object to generators running all night. I know around here most shut them down about 10 to 11 pm for the night. It does help the sleep situation not to have generators running everywhere.

I can run mine all night, no one seems to care.

Maybe it's they don't want to confront you. People are wary now.

Nah.

It's because of a few things -

house to house it is >200ft. Some houses are buffered by trees. You can't even hear a loud open frame generator very much.

Most people have good sound insulating windows.

I run an inverter generator which is about the level of normal speech when running, even less when it's on economy mode.

I do agree though that if you live with people a few feet away you need to shut down at night.

laserfan

join:2005-01-14
Texas
reply to iknow

said by iknow:

btw, homeowners associations suck.

Actually, neighbors suck, which is why the world needs homeowners associations!


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to laserfan

said by laserfan:

said by fifty nine:

I have an inverter generator

What's an "inverter generator"? You mean it's powered by batteries/solar? That should be virtually silent except for the hum of transformers?

No, it's powered by gasoline.

»m.powerequipment.honda.com/gener···eu6500is

Engine spins a three phase alternator, electricity is rectified to DC and then converted to 60Hz AC. As good as utility power and very economical on fuel. For 24 hours we used a bit less than 10 gallons.

I just wish they made models with more than 6.5kw. I would really like a 10-15kw unit. if they made a 15kw standby unit I would likely select that to install at home.

laserfan

join:2005-01-14
Texas
reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:

I do agree though that if you live with people a few feet away you need to shut down at night.

Campgrounds of course do typically have rules against running generators after x e.g. 10pm.

It will be interesting to see if the future has more & more power blackouts resulting in new home generators and resultant "neighbor problems".


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

said by laserfan:

said by fifty nine:

I do agree though that if you live with people a few feet away you need to shut down at night.

Campgrounds of course do typically have rules against running generators after x e.g. 10pm.

It will be interesting to see if the future has more & more power blackouts resulting in new home generators and resultant "neighbor problems".

I don't doubt that there will be. It also seems as though there are more and more cheap, loud generators flooding the market.

Inverter generators are a favorite of RVers. They also run them all night. It makes not much more noise than an air conditioner.

I'm thinking of getting a smaller EU2000i for camping and similar.

laserfan

join:2005-01-14
Texas
reply to fifty nine

Ok, well it's a conventional generator with a fancy inverter on it then.

Sound-wise it is really only a few dB quieter than many whole house (water cooled) generators.

I like Honda engines but I don't like gasoline for generators cuz it doesn't stay fresh. I have an 8000watt portable and have to stabilize and/or drain the gas out of it for its long idle periods.



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Yes, gasoline has its downsides but you can run it on propane with a carb conversion kit. I drain the carb on mine but keep the tank full with stabilized gasoline. Between exercise and other use I cycle fresh gas in constantly.

I would love a whole house generator but at nearly $4/gallon for propane I cringe at the thought of a 20kw whole house generator sucking up 2 gallons per hour for a week if I ever had to use it.

It's actually more than just a "fancy inverter." It has the eco throttle governor system that only uses as much fuel as you need. Why generate 6kw when I only need 1kw.



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

said by fifty nine:

I would love a whole house generator but at nearly $4/gallon for propane...

Is that really what you are paying at the moment!?! Ouch!


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

said by SwedishRider:

said by fifty nine:

I would love a whole house generator but at nearly $4/gallon for propane...

Is that really what you are paying at the moment!?! Ouch!

It varies from $2.20ish to about $4. Yes, propane up here is expensive. I lease my tank from Ferrellgas which is why.

laserfan

join:2005-01-14
Texas
reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:

I would love a whole house generator but at nearly $4/gallon for propane I cringe at the thought of a 20kw whole house generator sucking up 2 gallons per hour for a week if I ever had to use it.

Yikes. Well for me, a "use-able" home generator is an all-or-nothing affair. I'm not concerned about an hour here and 4 hours there--I can hook-up my portable and run the microwave if I absolutely have to. But when the grid goes down and we're out for a week or more, the only acceptable solution will be a 20KW+ with a monster propane tank full-to-the-brim. And a manual transfer switch so I can turn-off unneeded loads before switching-over. $10 grand I figure so a costly insurance policy indeed.

We've not suffered the big outage yet but I fear it is coming...