dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
7123
share rss forum feed


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to DKS

Re: [Serious] Scarborough block party turns violent

The registration and registry of handguns is unaffected by the changes the Conservatives made to the long gun registry, as is the requirement to hold a valid Purchase and Acquisition Licence (PAL) to purchase a long gun or any ammunition.

Someone determined enough to get weapons will get them, no matter how much gun control there is; just as someone determined to kill someone else is not going to let the absence of a gun stop them. A cultural change is required to reduce handgun crime.

That's not to say that handguns and long guns should be completely unregulated, but going to the other extreme, banning private ownership, won't eliminate the relatively rare mass shootings that have occurred in countries that have very stringent gun control, such as the U.K. and Norway. That's why public policy based on singular or rare incidents doesn't work. It is however, the only option left for those who ignore evidence-based outcomes when they conflict with their political opinion of the issue.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.



Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to WNGFAN 1

Has anyone posted a shred of evidence that a single handgun used in the Scarborough shooting incident was legally owned, registered, or carried?

So McGuinty's proposed ban would have done absolutely NOTHING in this case.



Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House

said by Ian:

Has anyone posted a shred of evidence that a single handgun used in the Scarborough shooting incident was legally owned, registered, or carried?

So McGuinty's proposed ban would have done absolutely NOTHING in this case.

You can almost bet that they weren't. There's just as much of an equal chance that they came from south america, or china, as they did from the US. Since we're starting to see guns coming into Canada from both places as well.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to JG_ont

said by JG_ont :

said by DKS:

said by urbanriot:

That's how it goes. Proof that people can responsibly use guns? "I don't care, I hate guns."

Yup. There is no reason for anyone outside of police and certain security guards to carry a handgun in Canada, save being in the wilderness, for protection (and a pistol will do nothing to bring down a bear except make them more angry).

Wrong. There's no reason FOR YOU. You're projecting your incapabilities on the rest of society, so you should adjust your assertions to reflect your abilities and not the abilities of other people in our society. The people you're all discussing weren't shot by responsible gun owners.

Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to digitalfutur

Cue the usual pro-gun/pro-RefomaTories chorus. It gets tiresome.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

said by DKS:

said by TLS2000:

Yes, heaven forbid they should do what they were elected to do.

Doesn't make it right.

So keeping an election promise is wrong... Gimme a break....

If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning...
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to DKS

said by DKS:

Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period.

and nobody can carry a handgun on them in public other then security and police, it is ILLEGAL to carry a handgun in public unless you fall into either category.

people that have handguns to even keep them, they have to be part of a registered handgun range, they have to follow a specific route to and from, the handgun must be in a locked hard case, must have a trigger lock, and kept out of sight during transportation. as well as when they are kept in the home they have to be unloaded locked up, trigger lock and separate ammunition. that is the basics of the laws for handguns in Canada, and guess what, we CANNOT take them out hunting with us, that is also illegal.

so the point of saying only police and security should carry handguns, is actually showing that you don't know the laws, they are the ONLY ones that can carry them in public, and no citizen can legally go out hunting and bring a handgun with them. any citizen at any time with a handgun out in public will be arrested and charged, and here is the fun part, if you are a LEGAL owner of a handgun you get about 4-5 charges for having your registered legally owned object on you, which is stupid considering that if you get caught with an unregested restricted weapon they only really take it from you and give you a slap on the wrist, as seen in the hundreds of little gang-bangers when they get caught.

also, there are more or less the same restrictions on long-gun transportation/storage as well(locked, out of sight, unloaded)
Expand your moderator at work


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to DKS

Re: [Serious] Scarborough block party turns violent

said by DKS:

If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning...

Bankrupt how? And I'll ask once more...Do you really believe criminals will register their guns? Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)...


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2

said by vue666:

said by DKS:

If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning...

Bankrupt how? And I'll ask once more...Do you really believe criminals will register their guns? Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)...

The point is never to get criminals to register their guns. That's is a silly, nonsensical argument. The point to to have knowledge of weapons and to have some idea of their "trail".
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to BonezX

said by BonezX:

said by DKS:

Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period.

and nobody can carry a handgun on them in public other then security and police, it is ILLEGAL to carry a handgun in public unless you fall into either category.

Yes, I'm well aware of those laws and restrictions. Your point? Other than to be defensive?
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)...

So we should just legalize everything that is banned, since the bans aren't working? I don't follow your logic.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period.

well, pray for me...on August 8th i will be going to the range to fire a variety of firearms...it will be fun...no one will get hurt...i suppose we will all die in hell.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

said by vue666:

said by DKS:

If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning...

Bankrupt how? And I'll ask once more...Do you really believe criminals will register their guns? Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)...

The point is never to get criminals to register their guns. That's is a silly, nonsensical argument. The point to to have knowledge of weapons and to have some idea of their "trail".

And the guns criminals use will have this trail? I think not. Most are from illegal entry into Canada and those that are stolen domestically will have their serial numbers filed off...

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period.

Please, if guns are the problem, how is it that police and military are immune to their effect?

Oh wait, they're not. As a matter of fact police and military misuse firearms at about the same rate as lawful firearm owners, yet somehow you don't seem to have a problem with that. Why is that? If firearms have no useful purpose, why should the police and military have them? If they do have a purpose, why shouldn't anybody else who's proven to be as proficient and dependable as those guys not be allowed to have them?

said by DKS:

Cue the usual pro-gun/pro-RefomaTories chorus. It gets tiresome.

You better get used to it because the anti-gun, dance-on-the-grave-of-victims, social-engineering, elitist "we-know-better-than-reality" chorus has gone on unopposed way longer than it ever should have in this country and lawful citizens have had quite enough to be treated like criminals in the name of your thirst for power and control.

said by DKS:

If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning...

The only thing bankrupt in this debate is the Canadian Firearms Program, to the tune of $2 billion dollars in the hole, for absolutely nothing but making hoplophobes feel better.

said by DKS:

The point is never to get criminals to register their guns. That's is a silly, nonsensical argument. The point to to have knowledge of weapons and to have some idea of their "trail".

Banning handguns drives them all into the black market, where there is no knowledge or tracking of them whatsoever. What "trail" are you following then?

As a matter of fact, what "trail" are you following now? Handguns have been registered and tracked since 1934 in Canada. Doesn't seem to keep the gang bangers from shooting each other with illegal handguns on a fairly regular basis.

said by DKS:

Yes, I'm well aware of those laws and restrictions. Your point? Other than to be defensive?

His point is that your argument is worthless because it's based on a false premise, just like everything else you claim.

Funny how you can't back up your claims with any facts whatsoever.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Kardinal

said by Kardinal:

said by vue666:

Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)...

So we should just legalize everything that is banned, since the bans aren't working? I don't follow your logic.

SO should I then deduce you believe prohibition worked? That our present marijuana laws are adequate? OR would you prefer to live in a police state...

To live in a free and democratic society there will always be risks. Empowering the government to control our lives is not a good idea...

It is perplexing to believe criminals who do not uphold the law will obey gun laws when they commit crimes..

quote:
Thomas Jefferson
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period.

Ever faced a bear before? Pistols are like pea shooters to them.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

said by BonezX:

said by DKS:

Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period.

and nobody can carry a handgun on them in public other then security and police, it is ILLEGAL to carry a handgun in public unless you fall into either category.

Yes, I'm well aware of those laws and restrictions. Your point? Other than to be defensive?

The point is obvious. "Banning handguns" is knee-jerk reactionary silliness. Further restricting legal handguns wouldn't have done a thing to prevent this shooting.

You know something that might? I do.

- Stiff mandatory sentences for those caught with an illegal handgun in the commission of a crime. And I don't mean "The first thing dealt away in a plea bargain." I mean, you're caught with a gun, while committing a crime, and you're spending a minimum of 10 years in jail. Period. Regardless of any other charges or soft left-wing belief that "Meh...guy caught with a loaded Glock while dealing crack will be a fine re-addition to our society in 6 months or so. Heck....maybe even house arrest will be ok."

Waiting to see how many of those who did the shooting in this case were out on parole or early release from some other crime. I'm betting 80-100%. Your guess?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1

3 edits
reply to milnoc

Repeating something like criminals will register there guns or hand guns can not stop a bear doesn't make it true...

Note some of the following bears killed by an hand gun were grizzlies... If it'll stop a grizzly it'll stop your Ontario black bears...

quote:
Grizzly Bear Shot and Killed By Hikers In Denali National Park and Preserve

A grizzly bear that emerged from a thicket and charged two backpackers in the backcountry of Denali National Park and Preserve was shot and killed by one of the two who was carrying a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to park officials.

»www.nationalparkstraveler.com/20···erve5943

Petersens Hunting - Handgun hunting bears...
»archives.petersenshunting.com/co···ng-bears

quote:
Bear killed with .40 caliber handgun - Alaska
Today's Midland Reporter Telegram contains an AP article describing a bear mauling incident occurring in Alaska.

»sleepless.blogs.com/george/2003/···wit.html


quote:
Man kills charging bear with .454 Casull
Greg Brush, an Alaskan fishing guide, was ambushed with no warning by a charging bear. All he had time to do was pull out his .454 Casull and fire as fast as possible, while falling backwards after tripping on a branch. The Anchorage Daily News reports:

»www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009···-casull/




Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

said by Kardinal:

said by vue666:

Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)...

So we should just legalize everything that is banned, since the bans aren't working? I don't follow your logic.

SO should I then deduce you believe prohibition worked? That our present marijuana laws are adequate? OR would you prefer to live in a police state...

If you are "deducing" that from my questioning your post, that's some more logic I'm not following.....or it's just a diversion/deflection/tangent.....
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1

1 edit

Do we not learn from history that simply banning something does not make the problem go away.

The Volstead Act did not make the American public's desire to consume alcohol go away, it's not working with drugs and it will not work with guns. All it does is provide a very lucrative market for criminals...

Taking away a pencil from someone who can not spell does not resolve the spelling problem... We need to find out why people want to get stoned, drunk and shoot each other. Then and only then we will have fixed the problem...



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to vue666

Two of those three incidents required multiple shots to subdue the bear, with the three shots in the third incident described by the shooter as being a "lucky shot".

In my encounter with a bear at a work camp, the man with the hunting rifle needed one shot to cripple the bear, and a second shot to quickly put it out of its misery. And luckily, he had time to properly set up the shot.

While this might sound very Stephen Colbert-ish, bears are vicious wild animals. They will maul you to death with great efficiency if given half the chance, with polar bears being the most aggressive of the lot.

Now with that in mind, it's doubtful you'll ever encounter a bear in a big city unless it's at the zoo in a protective enclosure. So the possession or use of a firearm in heavily populated area by the general public is extremely difficult to justify.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON

from what my colleagues who are members at the "gun club" say, a handgun is only good against a bear to buy you time to get your rifle...unless you "snipe" the bear in the head, good luck to you...the noise might scare it off, but unless you have a large calibre pistol, and are an excellent shot, you best pray you don't meet a bear if that is your only weapon...yes, it is better than nothing, but a rifle is what you really need.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

Expand your moderator at work


Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
St John'S, NL
reply to vue666

Re: [Serious] Scarborough block party turns violent

said by vue666:

said by DKS:

If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning...

Bankrupt how? And I'll ask once more...Do you really believe criminals will register their guns? Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)...

So by that logic we should legalize pot, cocaine, heroine, bath salts, fully automatic weapons? Let us stop registering cars too.Are you pro life Ken? If so, then rethink wanting to change abortion laws too.
--
It's one thing to listen to an idiot talk. As soon as you respond, there are now 2 idiots having a conversation.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1

Pretty selective in your reading of my posts... I said identify why people want to do drugs, engage in criminal acts, drink excessively then and only then will you lick the problem....

We have severe economic, social problems in our society that no one wants to address...

AND please stop attempting to hijack these threads into a Robert vs Ken debate... The issue is too complex and too serious for that type of hijinx...



vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to Robert

said by Robert:

said by vue666:

said by DKS:

If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning...

Bankrupt how? And I'll ask once more...Do you really believe criminals will register their guns? Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)...

So by that logic we should legalize pot, cocaine, heroine, bath salts, fully automatic weapons? Let us stop registering cars too.Are you pro life Ken? If so, then rethink wanting to change abortion laws too.

So kindly enlighten me how would've the long gun registry adverted this incident?


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

Cue the usual pro-gun/pro-RefomaTories chorus. It gets tiresome.

Thank you for confirming that evidence-based outcomes are subject to a political filter by progressives.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by digitalfutur:

Thank you for confirming that evidence-based outcomes are subject to a political filter by progressives.

While I agree with your original post in its entirety, this comment here is pretty rich. I don't think you're in a position to comment about other people's political filters.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2

1 edit

You missed the part upthread where DKS posted "foolish destruction of the gun registry", making no distinction between the long gun and the handgun registry. And the "tiresome" response to my post pointing that out.

When policies are advocated and continue to be supported where there is no evidence of their effectiveness, that is political filtering.

One only has to review this list of mass murders to see that banning handguns or gun control laws will not stop them from occurring:

»www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012···ist.html

Again, this does not mean that handguns and long guns ownership should not be be regulated, but the clear implication from gun control advocates is that gun control prevents mass murders, and its logical conclusion: If all guns are banned, there will be no mass murders. There is no evidence of either, and none will be provided by its proponents.
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.