| Has DSL pair bonding arrived at Bell? Hello, I have learnt from Bell field techs (ExpertTech) doing network reconditioning in my neighbourhood that pair bonding would be used for my home because I'm 1.1km away from the JWI. That being said, some people here said that pair bonding wasn't even close to being used but I'm now skeptical. I'm skeptical because my Fibe 25/TV scheduled availability date was pushed to August 23rd (why that specific date?) and that the JWI is too far to give me VDSL2 (>800m). Moreover, those 2 links indicate clearly that pair bonding is here and the equipment (including the one for testing) is available: » www.alcatel-lucent.com/features/phantom/» www.exfo.com/en/Corporate/News-E···ability/If I really do get VDSL2 in August via pair bonding, that's great news for people who are just a BIT too far to get it with a single pair. FTTH is -NOT- the short-term solution as it will literally take 10 years or more for Bell to complete deployment, not to mention they're starting with the regions where copper network is crappy and will finish with those who have a good copper network (the cities and neighbourhoods). If there's by chance some Bell engineers reading DSLR, can they confirm that pair bonding is/will be used soon?  |
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| Read here:
»AT&T: Pair Bonded DSL 'Late 2008'
While it works in theory pair bonding is a pipe dream something we may never see for the next millennium or ever (vdsl and dsl related). |
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| said by ChuckcZar :Read here:
»AT&T: Pair Bonded DSL 'Late 2008'
While it works in theory pair bonding is a pipe dream something we may never see for the next millennium or ever (vdsl and dsl related).
Sorry but I think you're trolling. If it were just a pipe dream, I don't think companies like EXFO would bother releasing a tester that supports bonded VDSL2. Moreover, the link you posted dates from 4 years ago and I don't see how Bell will be able to offer me Fibe 25/TV otherwise (scheduled availability Aug. 23rd).
I don't think the field techs (ExpertTech) would have bothered mentioning bonding using 2 DSLAM ports if it were just a dream. Maybe people in DSLR are just not aware of the latest stuff Bell is using? I hope that's the case. |
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| said by XanderLo:Maybe people in DSLR are just not aware of the latest stuff Bell is using? I hope that's the case.
It is more like people on DSLR are aware that pair-bonding has been available for about six years in spirit (specifications) but largely MIA in the real-world. |
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| said by InvalidError:said by XanderLo:Maybe people in DSLR are just not aware of the latest stuff Bell is using? I hope that's the case.
It is more like people on DSLR are aware that pair-bonding has been available for about six years in spirit (specifications) but largely MIA in the real-world. No offense but unless there are Bell engineers on DSLR, I think it's purely speculation.
Why would Bell ExpertTech guys mention that to me out of the blue?
How else could Bell offer me Fibe 25/TV in a month? Or is it all bullshit? heh |
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| said by XanderLo:How else could Bell offer me Fibe 25/TV in a month? Or is it all bullshit? heh Bell's standard practice so far has been to start offering Fibe25 where they roll out VDSL2 remotes close enough to allow it on a single loop and then start offering FibeTV at a later date.
It seems odd that Bell would suddenly start using bonding for 25/10 after more than two years rolling out 25/7 on single loops. |
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| said by InvalidError:said by XanderLo:How else could Bell offer me Fibe 25/TV in a month? Or is it all bullshit? heh Bell's standard practice so far has been to start offering Fibe25 where they roll out VDSL2 remotes close enough to allow it on a single loop and then start offering FibeTV at a later date. It seems odd that Bell would suddenly start using bonding for 25/10 after more than two years rolling out 25/7 on single loops. What you say makes sense, but my remote has been upgraded to VDSL2 but my neighbourhood is around 1-1.2km away from it. As far as I know, there's no way Bell could offer me VDSL2 unless they do pair-bonding OR build another JWI closer (unlikely).
My scheduled availability date for FibeTV (VDSL2) used to be in April when they were reconditioning the network, but then it got pushed to August 23rd. I assume it's because they realized we're too far from the remote to get it. It would be nice to get a straight answer on what exactly will be done but that's no easy thing. ;p Let's hope I don't get stood up again. heh |
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 HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:17
 ·TekSavvy Cable
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| The Sagemcom modem probably already supports it. From the telnet line stats page you can see what appears like two loop support. Its currently synced on one loop but the other loop reads 0. It'd be interesting to experiment with a rewired phone jack to see if it would sync on the "bearer 0" if the line is swapped to the outside pins.
Bearer0 Downstream payload rate: 0 kbps
Bearer1 Downstream payload rate: 26936 kbps
Bearer0 Upstream payload rate: 0 kbps
Bearer1 Upstream payload rate: 11320 kbps
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GO BLUE JAYS!
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 zed173
join:2010-07-17
Mississauga, ON | reply to InvalidError
Another benefit of pair bonding besides enabling higher speeds, is that is also gives current speeds a longer reach.
said by InvalidError:said by XanderLo:How else could Bell offer me Fibe 25/TV in a month? Or is it all bullshit? heh It seems odd that Bell would suddenly start using bonding for 25/10 after more than two years rolling out 25/7 on single loops. |
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| reply to ChuckcZar
It's hardly a pipe dream. Other ISPs can do it, there's no reason that Bell can't do the same. For Bell it's probably easier to add more VDSL remotes or roll out FTTH though.
I know Primus offers pair bonding to businesses under the name "BEX", they advertise up to 20 Mbps symmetrical up/down but can go higher if you're willing to pay. |
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| said by pair_bonding :It's hardly a pipe dream. Other ISPs can do it, there's no reason that Bell can't do the same. For Bell it's probably easier to add more VDSL remotes or roll out FTTH though.
I know Primus offers pair bonding to businesses under the name "BEX", they advertise up to 20 Mbps symmetrical up/down but can go higher if you're willing to pay.
I don't see how building another JWI or rolling out FTTH would be faster than simply using 2 DSLAM ports and a modem compatible with bonding (sagemcom seems to be). I guess we'll see if Bell really delivers end of August. Then, I'll ask them what was done in the neighbourhood. |
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| reply to zed173
said by zed173:Another benefit of pair bonding besides enabling higher speeds, is that is also gives current speeds a longer reach. At twice the DSLAM equipment and outside plant provisioning/maintenance cost per service so it does not necessarily come out much cheaper than rolling out deeper-FTTN to achieve the same speeds over single loops. |
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 Glen1These Are The Good Ol' Days.Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
GTA Canada
kudos:7 | reply to HiVolt
I can test that with you if you are up for it? |
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HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:17 | said by Glen1:I can test that with you if you are up for it?
Pair bonding? |
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Glen1These Are The Good Ol' Days.Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
GTA Canada
kudos:7 Reviews:
 ·Bell Fibe
| Yes, sounds like something I could test out if you say the Sagemcom appears to be able to handle it...I can get 2 ports, adjust their speed and feed them into one modem. Sounds like a challenge.
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My Canada includes Quebec.
Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies. |
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HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:17 Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
| said by Glen1:Yes, sounds like something I could test out if you say the Sagemcom appears to be able to handle it...I can get 2 ports, adjust their speed and feed them into one modem. Sounds like a challenge.
I'll first rewire the jack to see if it will actually sync on the outside pins, and the stats show it..
only problem my NID only has one "module" in it, as I've only ever had one line here...
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GO BLUE JAYS!
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Glen1These Are The Good Ol' Days.Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
GTA Canada
kudos:7 Reviews:
·Bell Fibe
| Okay let me know what your results are and then I can search for an opportunity to perform the testing...could be awhile before I get a perfect situation.
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My Canada includes Quebec.
Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies. |
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HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:17 | Yeah, will do.
My guess is that while the hardware may support it, Bell *probably* doesn't have the bonding part supported in firmware, and it may require back end support too in the ERX's, sort of like TekSavvy's MLPPP. |
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| said by HiVolt:My guess is that while the hardware may support it, Bell *probably* doesn't have the bonding part supported in firmware, and it may require back end support too in the ERX's, sort of like TekSavvy's MLPPP. VDSL2 pair bonding is done at the MAC layer directly between the DSLAM which must be feeding both lines and the modem, the rest of the network does not need to know anything about it. |
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Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to XanderLo
I thought I'd chime in here, I see a lot of talk about distance and VDSL2 and what kind of speed you can get.
I have installed many 25/7 VDSL2 services at distances longer than 800m.
2 things to consider here
1. VDSL2 can go farther than 800m and hold good speed and good attainable downstream and upstream, but I have seen the upstream suffer with a distance of >1.5Km when there are bridge taps included in that length.
2. When there are no bridge taps and the cable has been conditioned, and the end taps cut off, I have seen the downstream and upstream hold good sync @ 25/7 and have good attainable rate at distances greater than 1.2 -1.5 Km. These distances I am referring to are taking in to account the quality of the cable plant including the resistance, noise values and balance, which at that distance is very important to have them in spec.
The 7330 xSLAM has some interesting characteristics about it including its ability to manage line condition and distance in a much better way that the older equipment.
I haven't heard of pair bonding happening anywhere with Bell. I would hope to know about it if it were happening as I do install the VDSL2 services on a daily basis. |
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