dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
8424
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7 to 34764170

Member

to 34764170

Re: Has DSL pair bonding arrived at Bell?

said by 34764170:

said by InvalidError:

Bonding uses twice as many DSLAM ports which means half as much revenue out of a given investment unless bonded services carry a substantial premium.

They have to deal with it otherwise lose the customers.

There's plenty of other ways to gain customers...

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

said by kovy7:

There's plenty of other ways to gain customers...

Yeah, like actually offering good value & service in the products they sell without nickle & diming.

OMG GASP!!!
InvalidError
join:2008-02-03

InvalidError to 34764170

Member

to 34764170
said by 34764170:

They have to deal with it otherwise lose the customers.

If closing a deal with some subscribers costs you nearly twice as much as normal, you may not necessarily be interested in pursuing business with those higher-cost customers until you have exhausted all "normal cost" opportunities.
urbang33k
join:2010-02-13
Canada

urbang33k to XanderLo

Member

to XanderLo
here is a picture of what I'm talking about. I took this a while ago and although it's a little tough to see (the focus of this picture was not the bonding strap), you can see what I'm refering to from my previous post in the picture.

34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

34764170 (banned) to kovy7

Member

to kovy7
said by kovy7:

There's plenty of other ways to gain customers...

They're going to have to deal with some / most of these problematic areas eventually anyway to remain competitive. Of course there is, but it requires network upgrades.

XanderLo
join:2002-06-19
Boucherville, QC

XanderLo to urbang33k

Member

to urbang33k
Thanks for the info. That's what he must've meant then!

What puzzles me is that they've been done with the reconditioning for a few months and yet my attainable rate on ADSL2+ remains 17mbps. Can that be a normal scenario?
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7 to 34764170

Member

to 34764170
said by 34764170:

said by kovy7:

There's plenty of other ways to gain customers...

They're going to have to deal with some / most of these problematic areas eventually anyway to remain competitive. Of course there is, but it requires network upgrades.

Yes, they're already dealing with it with FTTH.

And not everyone need speed... some would love caps, lower price, better service... you know.
kovy7

kovy7 to XanderLo

Member

to XanderLo
said by XanderLo:

Thanks for the info. That's what he must've meant then!

What puzzles me is that they've been done with the reconditioning for a few months and yet my attainable rate on ADSL2+ remains 17mbps. Can that be a normal scenario?

perfectly normal. Distance is a real issue.

XanderLo
join:2002-06-19
Boucherville, QC

XanderLo

Member

said by kovy7:

said by XanderLo:

Thanks for the info. That's what he must've meant then!

What puzzles me is that they've been done with the reconditioning for a few months and yet my attainable rate on ADSL2+ remains 17mbps. Can that be a normal scenario?

perfectly normal. Distance is a real issue.

Yes I understand that but if I'm to get Fibe TV soon, wouldn't their reconditioning give me higher attainable rate on ADSL2+ or it only affects VDSL2? As I previously said, they've been done with the reconditioning for a few months.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to urbang33k

Premium Member

to urbang33k
said by urbang33k:



What is supposed to happen is, when the f2 terminals are placed on the poles during construction, approx 18 inches of sheath and shield and inner plastic wrapping are cut away to expose the binders of pairs and usually 1 or 2 binders (groups of 25 pairs) are pulled out and spliced into the terminal (eg Hotdog terminals) or left exposed inside the terminal (ready access, pic terminals). Part of the terminal install process is to install a braided metal strap to 'bond' the end of the cable entering to the end of the cable leaving by provide continuity of this metal shield of the cable itself. The bonding strap is also usually grounded to the strand and serves as protection from power influence , power surge (read lightning) among other voice and dsl signal factors.

Over the years as technicians work in the terminals, or replace them entirely, the bonding straps get removed for whatever reason (usually laziness).

Expertechs conditioning project involves re-establishing those bonds of the distribution cables that have been 'broken' over the years.

The process in and of itself is referred to as 'bonding' in either a construction/repair/rehabilitation perspective.

So what you are saying is that large portions of rate increases for "maintenance" are directly attributable to sloth and shoddy work practices @ Bell over the years.

In other words, the shareholders should be bearing the financial burden for THEIR failure in appointing effective management over the years.
urbang33k
join:2010-02-13
Canada

urbang33k

Member

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by urbang33k:



Expertechs conditioning project involves re-establishing those bonds of the distribution cables that have been 'broken' over the years.

The process in and of itself is referred to as 'bonding' in either a construction/repair/rehabilitation perspective.

So what you are saying is that large portions of rate increases for "maintenance" are directly attributable to sloth and shoddy work practices @ Bell over the years.

In other words, the shareholders should be bearing the financial burden for THEIR failure in appointing effective management over the years.

i didn't say that at all so dont put words in my mouth.

the conditiong project isn't limited to bonding. bonding isn't even the main reason for the conditioning project. the primary reason is pair dedication and bridge-tap elimination. bonding is part of the project simply because they are already in the terminals to begin with so might as well ensure everything is proper.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7 to XanderLo

Member

to XanderLo
said by XanderLo:

said by kovy7:

said by XanderLo:

Thanks for the info. That's what he must've meant then!

What puzzles me is that they've been done with the reconditioning for a few months and yet my attainable rate on ADSL2+ remains 17mbps. Can that be a normal scenario?

perfectly normal. Distance is a real issue.

Yes I understand that but if I'm to get Fibe TV soon, wouldn't their reconditioning give me higher attainable rate on ADSL2+ or it only affects VDSL2? As I previously said, they've been done with the reconditioning for a few months.

If your main problem is distance, reconditionning the lines won't do a thing... If you didn't had problems with your line before, I very much doubt reconditioning the lines would do anything for your attainable rate.

Reconditionning the lines was for IPTV, making the service as stable as possible... But people could already get Fibe25 before confitioning the lines... so if you can't get fibe25, then forget about IPTV.

XanderLo
join:2002-06-19
Boucherville, QC

XanderLo

Member

said by kovy7:

If your main problem is distance, reconditionning the lines won't do a thing... If you didn't had problems with your line before, I very much doubt reconditioning the lines would do anything for your attainable rate.

Reconditionning the lines was for IPTV, making the service as stable as possible... But people could already get Fibe25 before confitioning the lines... so if you can't get fibe25, then forget about IPTV.

So many conflicting answers, yet yours makes the most sense because my attainable rate on ADSL2+ is 17mbps -after- reconditioning was completed. ;p
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7

Member

said by XanderLo:

said by kovy7:

If your main problem is distance, reconditionning the lines won't do a thing... If you didn't had problems with your line before, I very much doubt reconditioning the lines would do anything for your attainable rate.

Reconditionning the lines was for IPTV, making the service as stable as possible... But people could already get Fibe25 before confitioning the lines... so if you can't get fibe25, then forget about IPTV.

So many conflicting answers, yet yours makes the most sense because my attainable rate on ADSL2+ is 17mbps -after- reconditioning was completed. ;p

Yeah same for me on VDSL2.
34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit

34764170 (banned) to kovy7

Member

to kovy7
said by kovy7:

Yes, they're already dealing with it with FTTH.

And not everyone need speed... some would love caps, lower price, better service... you know.

FTTH does not help with the many areas that will never see FTTH. So they'll need options on the FTTN side.

That's not really the point. They have to be able to offer FibeTV 25 or faster in a neighborhood. Remember their biggest product and what is driving their FTTN/FTTH network build out is FibeTV. FibeTV 25 leaves a lot to be desired for Internet speed so that's why they really need a 40 - 50Mbps tier on FTTN.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7

Member

said by 34764170:

said by kovy7:

Yes, they're already dealing with it with FTTH.

And not everyone need speed... some would love caps, lower price, better service... you know.

FTTH does not help with the many areas that will never see FTTH. So they'll need options on the FTTN side.

That's not really the point. They have to be able to offer FibeTV 25 or faster in a neighborhood. Remember their biggest product and what is driving their FTTN/FTTH network build out is FibeTV. FibeTV 25 leaves a lot to be desired for Internet speed so that's why they really need a 40 - 50Mbps tier on FTTN.

Why would areas never see FTTH ?

Heck I have Sat, not going to change for FibeTV since Sat quality is better and I always get full speed of Internet.

Like I said, speed is not the only option for getting customers...

XanderLo
join:2002-06-19
Boucherville, QC

XanderLo

Member

said by kovy7:

said by 34764170:

said by kovy7:

Yes, they're already dealing with it with FTTH.

And not everyone need speed... some would love caps, lower price, better service... you know.

FTTH does not help with the many areas that will never see FTTH. So they'll need options on the FTTN side.

That's not really the point. They have to be able to offer FibeTV 25 or faster in a neighborhood. Remember their biggest product and what is driving their FTTN/FTTH network build out is FibeTV. FibeTV 25 leaves a lot to be desired for Internet speed so that's why they really need a 40 - 50Mbps tier on FTTN.

Why would areas never see FTTH ?

Heck I have Sat, not going to change for FibeTV since Sat quality is better and I always get full speed of Internet.

Like I said, speed is not the only option for getting customers...

FTTH is an extra-long-term solution for Bell, seeing how slow deployment is in general. Hell, I remember reading how VDSL was supposed to be widely deployed for 2006. Yes, that's 6 years ago. Haha.

However, I agree with you that speed is not the only option for getting customers. I'm satisfied with Bell Satellite TV and I pay 15$/month for it after the 10$ bundle credit. That's for HD + 1 free PVR 36/months + 2 theme packages (RDS/RIS/Canal Vie/etc).

I'm afraid Fibe TV might be worth it for FTTH customers only as they get MASSIVE rebates (and none for FTTN customers, go figure). The 10$/month for 6 months promo on web site might be misleading.

I was not aware that Bell Sat image quality was better than Fibe TV though...

dillyhammer
START me up
Premium Member
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON

dillyhammer to pair_bonding

Premium Member

to pair_bonding
said by pair_bonding :

I know Primus offers pair bonding to businesses under the name "BEX", they advertise up to 20 Mbps symmetrical up/down but can go higher if you're willing to pay.

$400/MO for 5m service? Did I miss something?

They advertise that as a "fraction of the cost of fiber"? Uh, what fraction is that? 11/10ths.

They also advertise is as not DSL, but operates over copper phone lines. So that must make it.... what? Is that the opposite of Fibe?



Maybe I'm just missing something...

Mike
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7 to XanderLo

Member

to XanderLo
said by XanderLo:

FTTH is an extra-long-term solution for Bell, seeing how slow deployment is in general. Hell, I remember reading how VDSL was supposed to be widely deployed for 2006. Yes, that's 6 years ago. Haha.

However, I agree with you that speed is not the only option for getting customers. I'm satisfied with Bell Satellite TV and I pay 15$/month for it after the 10$ bundle credit. That's for HD + 1 free PVR 36/months + 2 theme packages (RDS/RIS/Canal Vie/etc).

I'm afraid Fibe TV might be worth it for FTTH customers only as they get MASSIVE rebates (and none for FTTN customers, go figure). The 10$/month for 6 months promo on web site might be misleading.

I was not aware that Bell Sat image quality was better than Fibe TV though...

VDSL2 was very late... and once it started, it went very quickly. But things for FTTH are clearly going at a good pace.

Yeah quality wise, FibeTv was better... but since they upgraded the feed from 2hd/2sd to 3hd/1sd... quality went down.
34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit

34764170 (banned) to dillyhammer

Member

to dillyhammer
said by dillyhammer:

They advertise that as a "fraction of the cost of fiber"? Uh, what fraction is that? 11/10ths.

They also advertise is as not DSL, but operates over copper phone lines. So that must make it.... what? Is that the opposite of Fibe?

It's a business service. It's compared to fibre-based services from the ILEC/CLECs, not consumer xDSL.

Some vendors offer equipment which will bond together copper pairs but use Ethernet instead of xDSL.