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angry

@wildblue.net

Any wireless cell phone repeater systems out there?

I rent and my landlord said i can't drill holes in the floor or wall of the house so using an outdoor antenna seems out of the question. Unless someone knows how to the signal from the antenna to inside my house without drilling holes? I"ve heard some outdoor antennas will work if you put them in the addict. So do they make an amp that will wireless broadcast a signal? That way i could put an antenna and amp in the addict and have it broadcast a boosted signal throughout the house

Max Signal
Premium
join:2008-03-07
Buffalo, NY
kudos:1
you can try that . But the system will not work as well . The better the donor signal , the better the system works . You are going to get a much better donor door signal if you have the antenna outside.
--
»www.maximumsignal.net/


angry

@12.189.32.x
Max do you know if anyone makes flat wire that will work with a cellular repeater system? I have dish and when it was installed the dude used a special flat wire that would fit under the bottom of the window.

Max Signal
Premium
join:2008-03-07
Buffalo, NY
kudos:1
Not that I know of , How big an area do have to cover . I had an idea just now . You should call us. Link below in signature
--
»www.maximumsignal.net/


angry

@wildblue.net
the house is about 1350 square feet so not that big. If a repeater system isn't possible i can try just using a direct amp to connect to a data card on my computer as getting 3g is my main concern. I'm expecting some money via wu on the 27th and i can't really make any purchases before then. I just want to get my ducks in a row a head of time.


angry

@12.189.32.x
reply to Max Signal
i might could put the antenna outside so long as it could transfer the signal into my house without using wires. It's the whole drilling holes and running wires through the wall and floor that posses a problem

Max Signal
Premium
join:2008-03-07
Buffalo, NY
kudos:1
You should just get a direct connect amplifier kit , if you are just concerned about your 3G card . Jim has reviewed the cyfre amplifier kit at www.evdo-tips.com You can put the antenna by a window inside . If you have an antenna outside , there will have to be cable . an antenna has to have cable running to inside antenna on any wireless amplifier system.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to angry
Landlord can't prohibit you from doing that. Google OTARD


angry

@12.189.32.x
may be a dumb question but where can i get ratings on dual band antennas?

Max Signal
Premium
join:2008-03-07
Buffalo, NY
kudos:1
you can't , not you can trust anyhow . Only if it is a trusted manufacturer . Too Many aftermarket crap dealers on ebay . Claim their product to be on thing and it is really crappy . There are trustworthy dealers out there that give you real numbers . Stay away from brands such as Cell-gear . Trusted names are Cyfre , Wilson, Antennex , Laird to name a few.

said by angry :

may be a dumb question but where can i get ratings on dual band antennas?


--
»www.maximumsignal.net/

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to wirelessdog
said by wirelessdog:

Landlord can't prohibit you from doing that. Google OTARD

Landlord can most certainly prevent the tenant from drilling holes or other similar actions which damage the landlord's property.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to angry
Not hardly. The Landlord can specify an area where equipment is to be installed but can absolutely not prohibit equipment from being installed - holes or not.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
This part of the discussion would be better carried out in the WISP forum. OTARD does not give the tenant the right to damage the landlord's property. I am both a landlord and a WISP.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to wirelessdog
said by angry :

I rent and my landlord said i can't drill holes in the floor or wall of the house

said by wirelessdog:

Landlord can't prohibit you from doing that. Google OTARD

OTARD only addresses restrictions of outdoor antennas. the property is still within legal right to restrict wall penetrations. This is why window sill coax was invented.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to angry
If the outdoor antenna cannot be properly installed without drilling a hole the burden of proof is on the landlord that OTARD does not cover this. OTARD sides with the consumer in most cases, the landlord cannot require the antenna be removed until the FCC makes their decision. Its pretty cut and dry.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
From the FCC website, »www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-rece···ces-rule

quote:
Q: If I live in a condominium or an apartment building, does this rule apply to me?

A: The rule applies to antenna users who live in a multiple dwelling unit building, such as a condominium or apartment building, ... For example, the rule would not apply to restrictions that prevent drilling through the exterior wall of a condominium or rental unit and thus restrictions may prohibit installation that requires such drilling.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to wirelessdog
And it would be reasonable to assume that mounting an antenna by partially screwing in a screw into a wall would still be considered a wall penetration.


angry

@12.189.32.x
when is someone gonna invent window coax that works with cell repeater systems or even direct connect systems?

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to angry
That is speaking of a multiple dwelling unit which a tenant does not have exclusive access to.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to wirelessdog
said by wirelessdog:

If the outdoor antenna cannot be properly installed without drilling a hole the burden of proof is on the landlord that OTARD does not cover this. OTARD sides with the consumer in most cases, the landlord cannot require the antenna be removed until the FCC makes their decision. Its pretty cut and dry.

Burden of proof? The lease stated "NO HOLES". My lease was very clear and now the tenant is being evicted. I have a very strong lease, 6 legal pages of small print written and backed by one of the largest landlord organizations in the country. It stands up in court. This has nothing to do with whether it is single or multi-family. The tenant still must abide by the lease.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to angry
Wow. Another landlord who believes he is above the law. I'd love to know who your tenant is.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
Instead, why don't you learn what OTARD allows so you don't continue to mislead other users of this forum.

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
reply to angry
The only way I know is to build a gap filler that goes between the bottom of the window and the bottom of the window opening. You can make it out of metal, laminated wood, phenolic, or fiberglass. It needs to have properly align and machined surfaces so it fits snugly against the existing surfaces. Usually it needs weatherproof seals attached. It has to have the correct connectors installed, so that the coax from the antenna can be detached from the gap filler separately from the coax that goes to the modem, set top box, or television. You will also need to raise up or lower the window latching device on the other part of the window with a shim block and longer bolts. If you are renting and leave the place, you disconnect the coax cables, remove the gap filler, take out the shim block, screw the latching device back in, clean up the area, and no harm done to the property. If you are really careful to match the materials and coatings, a relatively thin gap filler will blend in with the rest of the window. From a short distance it will look like you have the window raised slightly. You do not want to raise it too much, as from a long distance it will look like an open window and will invite thieves to attack it as a possible entrance point that they can get into without breaking the glass.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to robbin
No, you need to realize that just because you put something in a lease does not make it legal.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
First of all, as I previously stated, my lease is written by lawyers for one of the largest landlord organizations in the country. They do not put things in it which are illegal.

Your ignorance on the OTARD issue astounds me. In my second post on this issue I suggested that the OTARD discussion be taken to the WISP forum as I know you post there. A thread was started but you have chosen not to post in it as is your choice. I can only guess that you don't really want to discuss this issue with your peers but instead just continue to take this thread off-topic with mis-information.

As WHT See Profile previously stated in this thread

said by WHT:

OTARD only addresses restrictions of outdoor antennas. the property is still within legal right to restrict wall penetrations.



WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to wirelessdog
quote:
Q: If I live in a condominium or an apartment building, does this rule apply to me?

A: The rule applies to antenna users who live in a multiple dwelling unit building, such as a condominium or apartment building, ... For example, the rule would not apply to restrictions that prevent drilling through the exterior wall of a condominium or rental unit and thus restrictions may prohibit installation that requires such drilling.
said by wirelessdog:

That is speaking of a multiple dwelling unit which a tenant does not have exclusive access to.

It is speaking as an example, it is not speaking to differentiate a MDU from a single tenant dwelling. If the property owner says not wall penetration, then no wall penetration.

On a side note about any wire or coax run under a window or door seal...That too can be prohibited. U.S. Dept. of Agriculture assisted rent properties have a rule the windows and doors must be lockable with original factory locks. Cracking the window open and using after-market locks - those aluminum clips with thumb screw - are not allowed.

said by wirelessdog:

No, you need to realize that just because you put something in a lease does not make it legal.

As long as it isn't prohibited by statute, you can put what ever you want in the lease - regardless how unfair, complex, or illogical it may be.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to angry
I am independently investigating further as my understand appears at least on the surface to be incorrect. When I receive confirmation back from my independent source I will come back to this subject.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5

2 edits
reply to angry
Referring back to
quote:
»www.fcc.gov/guides/installing-co···e-dishes
It looks like the Rule marginally favors the tenant (What Types of Properties Are Covered?), but I also see where the tenant can be prohibited from causing damage (What kinds of restrictions are permitted?).

quote:
What Types of Properties Are Covered?

Under the OTARD rules, an owner or a tenant has the right to install an antenna (that meets size limitations) on property that he owns or over which he has exclusive use or control. This includes single family homes, condominiums, cooperatives, townhomes and manufactured homes.
That clearly means a property owner renting a single dwelling house cannot prohibit an installation anywhere on the dwelling.

quote:
In the case of condominiums, cooperatives and rental properties, the rules apply to “exclusive use” areas, like terraces, balconies or patios.
That clearly means a property owner renting anything other than a single dwelling property cannot prohibit an installation anywhere on the dwelling where only the renter has access to, or "exclusive use" defined below.

quote:
“Exclusive use” refers to an area of the property that only the renter and people allowed by the renter may enter and use. If the area is shared with others or accessible without the renter’s permission, it is not considered to be an exclusive use area.
That clearly means you can mount an antenna on the wall of a renter's balcony or porch, but not on the roof or extending above roof above the balcony or porch.

HOWEVER....
quote:
What kinds of restrictions are permitted?

Restrictions necessary to prevent damage to leased property are permissible, as long as the restrictions are reasonable. For example, a lease restriction that forbids tenants from damaging the balcony floor when installing an antenna is likely to be permissible.
That means the property owner could prohibit a self-install by an inexperienced person, because it's reasonable to assume an inexperienced person may cause damage.

BUT...
quote:
If there is a conflict about a restriction’s validity, the association, landlord or local government trying to enforce the restriction must prove it is valid. This means that no matter who questions the validity of the restriction, the person or entity trying to enforce the restriction must prove that it is legitimate.
That might mean the owner trying to prohibit an installation may not be able to show a professional installation would be damaging.

Bottom line appears that a WISP can install an antenna and cable on an apartment wall within the confines of the tenant's space.

And this interesting post, »forum.ubnt.com/showthread.php?t=21895
Here the FCC ruled against Boston's city airports prohibition against Continental putting in their own wireless access points and presumably the antennas, citing the OTARD Rule.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
I think some of your thoughts need a little clarification. You are right that the landlord or HOA cannot prevent an installation on locations as you have mentioned. However, they can have "restrictions necessary to prevent damage". Think no penetrations here -- yes you can put your antenna on the roof, but you cannot damage the roof. Yes, you can put your antenna on the balcony but you cannot damage the balcony. I don't know how you mount an antenna on a wall without damage but I guess, yes you can use giant suction cups to mount the antenna on the wall, but you cannot damage the wall. And no, you cannot drill through the wall for your cable as that would "damage" the wall.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
True...The property owner can try to prohibit the install, but the tenant is allowed to challenged that and would have a good compelling argument if a professional installer is used that would not cause permanent damage, i.e. properly sealing the screws and cable entry.

For a property owner were to claim drilling through a wall would damage it, the tenant merely has to make mention of the millions of times the telephone company drills a hole in an exterior wall and there is no damage.