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McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2

In need of an upgrade, requesting advice and suggestions.

Moved this over from the WoW forum, posted it in a thread over there but obviously this is a more apropriate place.

I'm about to PCS to Okinawa, and figure I could use some of the moving allowances and per diem to upgrade my rig (I'm looking at clearing $5k after paying 3 months of the mortgage before leaving). I'm going to basically completely rebuild it, salvaging a couple things from the old one; DVD drive, hard disk, and case.

Problem is, I have limited knowledge in this field. I am confident that I can build the rig, but not confident in my ability to pick the most compatible components if that makes any sense. Anyway this is what I've been looking at:

Video Card:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···14130699

Power Supply:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···17703036

CPU:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···19115072

Motherboard:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···3128541R

Ram:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···20231428

Fan:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···35103065

SSD:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···20226236

$815 in total. I plan on transferring my OS to the SSD. I have all of the other ancillary components I need; mouse, keyboard, monitor, etc.

Here is what I use currently:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···83229159
Bought in January 2010.

Like I said above, I would like to salvage what I can from my current machine. Anything else I can save that won't effect performance too much will be icing on the cake. I reckon $800 bucks is my budget, and I will need just the components listed above, unless I missed something. If anyone knows some products that will give me better performance for a similar price please help me out, because I'm not the most saavy when it comes to PC tech.

I'll be putting this rig together in the next couple of months.
Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions?
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
None of the links came over, can you re-pasta?


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to McBrain
said by McBrain:

I'm about to PCS to Okinawa, and figure I could use some of the moving allowances and per diem to upgrade my rig (I'm looking at clearing $5k after paying 3 months of the mortgage before leaving). I'm going to basically completely rebuild it, salvaging a couple things from the old one; DVD drive, hard disk, and case.

Problem is, I have limited knowledge in this field. I am confident that I can build the rig, but not confident in my ability to pick the most compatible components if that makes any sense. Anyway this is what I've been looking at:

Video Card:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 14130699

Power Supply:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 17703036

CPU:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 19115072

Motherboard:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 3128541R

Ram:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 20231428

Fan:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 35103065

SSD:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 20226236

$815 in total. I plan on transferring my OS to the SSD. I have all of the other ancillary components I need; mouse, keyboard, monitor, etc.

Here is what I use currently:
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 83229159
Bought in January 2010.

I'll be putting this rig together in the next couple of months.
Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions?

here you go hopefully these links work


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Krisnatharok
said by Krisnatharok:

None of the links came over, can you re-pasta?

Just did for him I think, unless the list changed.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
Naw, that's the list.

Sorry I didn't respond, I was talking to a buddy about what I could do differently.

He's convincing me to ditch the SSD. His reasoning is that my concern isn't how fast my screens load, but how well my rig performs in game. Which is a very valid point.

He also made the suggestion that I upgrade only my GPU at first to see if that would give me the performance I want...but I'm pretty sure that if I upgraded GPU/PSUs that the rest of my machine would only hold things back. So I'm thinking that I should go with GPU/PSU/CPU/MOBO upgrades all at once.

Anyway, if you could take a look at things, Kris, it'd be much appreciated.

The products I have linked are arbitrary for price reference. The only thing I will potentially buy that's not brand new is the video card. Unless you guys tell me a refurb is a bad idea.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
I'm not to familure with AMD cpu's.

Though the card in your system is likely the limiting point though I would bet that a GTX570 would make the CPU the limiting point.

For SSD v HDD it really comes down to if the speed in loading is worth it to you.

In wow you'll zone in faster (while others are setting on a load screen) but after its loaded wow doesn't seem to do much IO till a load screen.

For the CPU I'd look to an ivybridge because it is newer and I know I'd want a system to be as current as is reasonable.

I think I'd take the easy route and first do the video card and power supply (making sure they'll fit your current case.)

then if the performance is still in need of improvment get the rest.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
I don't mind upgrading my GPU/PSU first if that is going to give me the best bang for my buck. But if the performance to cost ratio would be higher if I upgrade more than that then I am ok with that too. I just don't want to buy x component for it to lead to me having to buy y component in order to have proper synergy, then find out I need z component as well to make it work the best.

I'd rather do it all at once and get the best performance/cost ratio I can. By no means do I need a setup like Swifty's, but I want to run WoW on ultra and get above average FPS in Orgrimmar.

The card I 'want' is the GTX570, but according to nVidia's performance chart, the GTX560ti and GTX480 both perform similarly...so I guess those three are my cards of choice and I'd be willing to accept any one in the setup that will yield the best performance for the lowest overall cost.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Well the video card and CPU are the largest ones (cost wise) in the list.

and with the gt 220 (an economy or entery level card) to a GTX570 (one step from the top single GPU in its line) should be far more powerful.

btw I currently have a GTX570 in my 1366 system and I'm genrally at or near 60fps in SW (depending on whats going on)

well GPU+PS=$340 (less than half the total cost)
while you might not get everything the card has to offer with the current computer if its unsatesfactory then you could easily but the rest.

and as you already have a harddrive I'd look at how much you would value the boost in load times.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2

1 edit
From what I am reading any of the three cards mentioned will bottleneck pretty bad with my current CPU. So it looks like I am searching for a CPU along with GPU/PSU. I don't mind having an AMD if I can save some bills I guess, since buying an Intel CPU will mandate a new mobo as well.

Looks like I'm gonna go with the GTX480 and the 600w PSU listed above, thoughts?


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
IIRC the GTX400's were a bit power hungery, thus why I waited on the 500's

currently the price per performance favors intel.

Well I wouldn't go cheap on the power supply, you'll want to be sure you get a good quality one, because a faulty one can cause all kinds of issues that aren't clear at first to be the fault of the power supply.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
Yeah, the GTX480 and a new CPU will require AT LEAST a 650w PSU.

According to the nVidia site, the GTX480 definitely outperforms the 560ti - and by a decent amount, but at a cost of 100 more watts. But, I can get a brand new GTX480 on newegg for 20 bucks less than a refurbished 560ti.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
if your interested I do have a GTX260 sitting in a box.
It was replaced with the GTX570 because I had been waiting on the 500 line.


Dissembled

join:2008-01-23
Indianapolis, IN
reply to McBrain
You have a pretty solid list there. Are you asking if those are good components for your rebuild, or are you trying to figure out ways to take money out of it?

I love my 570....and I bet you will too.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
reply to DarkLogix
I built an AMD rig on newegg a few minutes ago, I can add links later when I'm at home. The same components as the $815 Intel rig I put together were $550. I know Intel out performs AMD right now, and the Phenom II x4 quad core CPU and GTX480 GPU aren't brand new. But if I can achieve the performance I want for $250 less, then I'm all for it. And it's not like I expect unreasonable performance, I'm looking for +60 FPS in Orgrimmar and no lag in D3...that's it.

You guys think the Phenom II x4 quad core 3.4GHz, GTX480, 650w PSU and 8GB(2x4GB) DDR3 1600 RAM is enough to do this, or am I going to be pigeon holed into an Ivy Bridge, Z77, GTX500 series in order to get what I want out of my rig?
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


Dissembled

join:2008-01-23
Indianapolis, IN
reply to McBrain
I can tell you I have an AMD 965 Black CPU with 8GB of cheap generic 1333 RAM, a relatively entry level ASRock mobo, and Galaxy 570 and it performs perfectly well with every game I've played. I'm able to max just about everything out on every game.

I'm a big fan of staying with a nice video card though.

(Beware the flood of AMD sucks!! Must have Intel posts though. lol)


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
Thanks man. IDC too much about the Intel fanboys, I don't need the best of the best, just enough to get me what I want is good with me.

Here are the links:
ASRock mobo
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 13157305
GTX480 GPU
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 14130759
Antec 650w PSU
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 17371044
Phenom II x4 965 Black Edition 3.4GHz CPU
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 19103727
8GB G.SKILL Ripjaw series DDR3 1600 RAM
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 20231314

I'm pretty convinced this will do the job.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
Core i5 3450 3.1GHz LGA 1155 Processor - $150
»www.microcenter.com/single_produ ··· =0388579

ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - $125
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 13157293

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL - $45
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 20231314

Rosewill CAPSTONE Series CAPSTONE-650-M 650W ATX12V v2.31 & EPS12V v2.92 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - $100
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 17182263

This leaves you $380 to spend on the GPU. However, I suggest you get the GTX 570 for $270 and pocket the extra:

EVGA 012-P3-1570-AR GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - $270
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 14130593
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to McBrain
Currently the Intel vs AMD thing is per dollor Intel does better right now.

So if you get AMD you'll pay more per performance.
Remember Intel GHz != AMD GHz


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
reply to Krisnatharok
Alright, Kris, you've convinced me, I believe to go Intel vs. AMD. Even though I just overclocked my old Athlon II x2 245(2.9GHz) to 3.45 GHz on stock cooling and it seems to be operating fine for now...I don't really feel like having to "cheat" to get comparable performance when I could get it worry free from simply spending 50 bucks more.

For what I am going to use my rig for...WoW and net surfing, wouldn't an i3 2130 perform equally as well as the i5 3450? The reason I say this is I'm not near a Microcenter, and don't really plan on getting up to VA in the near future to be near one, and the 2130 is the same price on Newegg as the 3450 you listed above at Microcenter.

Another question is, will I REALLY need a Z77 mobo if I definitely don't plan on SLi? Could I not go with a B75 instead and save 50 bucks?

Last thing, I was hell bent on using an AMD set-up with an EVGA nVidia card (really like the GTX480), but now I'm thinking about going with a Radeon HD 6870 instead...thoughts?

The i3 rig I have in my Newegg wishlist right now is $475...epic bargain shopping was done to achieve this, but I think I don't NEED anything more than what I've got on there...of course I want it, but there are definitely other things I could drop a few hundred bills on that would make the wife happier.

Links for $475 i3 set-up (only need what is linked):

i3 2130 Sandy Bridge, $150, newegg
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 19115092

ASRock B75M-GL Motherboard, $60, newegg
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 13157326

HIS Radeon HN 6870, $160, newegg
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 13157326

Cooler Master GX 450w PSU, $60, newegg
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 17171060

G.SKILL Ripjaw X series RAM 8GB(2x4GB), $45, newegg
»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 20231428

Simple, cheap, somewhere between bottom of the barrel and top of the line. Will this system get me 60 FPS in WoW at or very near Ultra settings? This is really all I expect out of a computer. This'll be the first time I've bought parts separately and put them together myself, I'm not expecting something like what Ghastly linked earlier, but I want a step or two above what I have currently (linked above).

Edit: I would totally not be opposed to using Microcenter, I should probably build something on their site and plan a trip up to VA Beach, considering the amount of savings I could get simply by picking something up in a store vs on the internet.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
The i3-2130 will get the job done, and is probably equivalent to the 965 Phenom II, but for $40 extra, you can get an i5/Ivy Bridge quad core 3.1 GHz (3.5 GHz boost): »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 19116506

That $40 will double your cores and make a world of difference. This still comes in under your original $800 and is worth only a dinner out or a new game. I'd jump for the extra CPU power.

You're scraping the bottom of the barrel with that mobo. 1x SATA 6 port, one PCIe 2.0 slot (at x4 means not x16? - edit: although it has a PCIe 3.0 slot at 16x so you should be set for your GPU), two ram slots (have to go with 8 GB dims if you want 16 GB ever).

B75 is a budget chipset and probably not going to be produced in large numbers--I would avoid it and go stay with Z77 or the older Z68. I've had a bad experience with a sub-$100 board and like putting nice mobos in my preference.

Assuming you are aware of the limitations I mentioned in the first paragraph, go with it. While rated at only 450w, the PSU should handle the 6870 just fine, and has a nice 5 year warranty.

The 6870 is a great GPU at that price point. I don't know if I'd go with HIS, but the model is good.

The only thing you ought to consider via Microcenter is the CPU and possibly a CPU/motherboard combo (they routinely offer an extra $50-100 off if you buy them together).
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
Yeah, I was just looking around on their site and found the i5 3750k for less than $200: »www.microcenter.com/single_produ ··· =0388577

If I went with it I would definitely go with the Z77 mobo...thing is I am having to learn all this stuff as I go...

The HIS card was basically the first one I saw, I would probably go with Sapphire, which is like 10 bucks more.

And I'll definitely search Microcenter more, buying a CPU/Mobo combo at a $100 discount would be pretty nice. Even if I couldn't get up there myself to pick it up, it would be more than enough to pay a buddy to drive it down or meet me half way.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
Check out page 3 (top left-hand side) and page 27: »viewer.zmags.com/publication/325 ··· 9b0e8/27

demir
Premium
join:2010-07-15
usa
reply to McBrain
said by McBrain:

Naw, that's the list.

Sorry I didn't respond, I was talking to a buddy about what I could do differently.

He's convincing me to ditch the SSD. His reasoning is that my concern isn't how fast my screens load, but how well my rig performs in game. Which is a very valid point.

He also made the suggestion that I upgrade only my GPU at first to see if that would give me the performance I want...but I'm pretty sure that if I upgraded GPU/PSUs that the rest of my machine would only hold things back. So I'm thinking that I should go with GPU/PSU/CPU/MOBO upgrades all at once.

Anyway, if you could take a look at things, Kris, it'd be much appreciated.

The products I have linked are arbitrary for price reference. The only thing I will potentially buy that's not brand new is the video card. Unless you guys tell me a refurb is a bad idea.

In my opinion, your buddy NAILED it. For a gamer on a budget, the SSD is the first thing I'd ditch to save cash.

Put any extra $ into the video card until you can't spend anymore or until you have the best card possible. If you have enough after that, then purchase the SSD.

Kris already suggested the mid range CPU -- which I also think is a good idea --- get an i5 if you can.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
Yeah, I've since ditched the SSD...maybe it'll be a birthday gift to myself or something later this fall.

Going with CPU/Mobo/RAM/GPU/PSU for now. I'd like to stay under $600 if I could, like I said, I'm learning all this as I go and am trying to avoid getting hosed because of lack of knowledge.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
FWIW there is an Agility 3 120 GB SSD on Shellshocker now for $70.

»www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShoc ··· 232012_1

Have you told us what your budget is again? Because I am confused that you initially said $800 and now want it down around $475...
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
Well, I started at $800. Then realized that I WANT a SSD, but I don't NEED one.

So, the budget is $600 as of now. I've come up with a few different builds that come in under that, so I'm pretty sure I can get what I need with $600.

The $475 was basically seeing what the cheapest I could put an Itel system together for.

Regardless what CPU I chose, I am fully expecting $550+...Intel will be a little more I'm sure, but I probably won't overclock it, where I would definitely be overclocking the AMD.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
If you are sure you aren't going to OC then get one of the non-K CPU's.

At this price I'd still grab one of those SSDs.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
I'll OC if I've got to. I mean if I can get what I want to get out of a non-K series CPU, then I'll have no need to. But if I can't then I don't mind upgrading to a K and overclocking to get the performance I want, 60 FPS on Ultra settings. If I can get those framerates with an AMD, then I'd go that route, as it is the cheaper of the two companies. Basically I want the best bang for my buck, 60 FPS on Ultra. Anything in excess of that will be wasted money because I don't edit or anything else like that.

I'm just sick of fluctuating between 20-40 FPS on settings between "Fair" and "Good", you know? And in order to get the performance I get now I turn off sunshafts, particle density is on low, use 4x antriscopic or whatever, low view distance, low ground clutter, etc. I know wow is cartoony, but the way I play it currently, it's worse than my kid's comics...and he mostly reads Smurfs.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
Any of the Ivy Bridge i5's will easily max out on ultra.


McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2
said by Krisnatharok:

Any of the Ivy Bridge i5's will easily max out on ultra.

Right, but would an OC'ed Phenom II?

I've been catching som heat from the old lady about a "new computer" even though she has no idea of the specifics, including price. Hence why my budget has declined slightly. Without saying I want a "budget build", I want just about what the minimum is to run on max settings. I'm not too concerned with "future proofing" orwhatever, it's computer, and I'll need another one soon enough no matter what get.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”