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Krystal Trav

@switchvpn.com
reply to Name Game

Re: Is it possible to quit Google?

said by Name Game:

Have to admit..you have this thing for Google just like i have for Dell..would not touch their stuff if they gave it away.

Yeah Dell is absolute trash.

People need to build their own PC's, it's not complicated and you can do fun stuff like use 2 SSD's and install Windows on one and Linux on the other, if you don't game, skip windows altogether and roll with Mint or something. But Dell is very painful, they use poor components, and install massive bloat onto their machines. I wouldn't recommend Dell to someone I disliked for fear of being too evil to them - let alone someone I liked!

A $600.00 computer - self built, is fast, and will be fast for years. A $600 Dell box is obsolete the day you get it, and requires extensive upgrades if you make even minor changes. You know those awesome 250w PS's, and hideous graphic cards they use. IF you choose to go with a higher end Dell, bend over! Lotta talk on these forum from people that are trying to appear to be experts, but the fact is folks like Mele20 are newbs - security or otherwise.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

1 recommendation

The entire computer-using population of the USA 'need to build their own PCs'? I think your viewpoint might be just a teeny bit myopic.

Actually, that much is obvious, given you're sneering at 250W power supplies with no context given. The last two desktop PCs I built (which would have met your $600 price point except I added $200 worth of SSD on top of that) have 150W power supplies, which is maybe double the steady-state requirement. And they perform pretty well.

The "my power supply is bigger than yours" crowd seems to have, uh, issues.

There's room for both Dell and home-builts in the world. In fact, I use both. I have a perfectly adequate Dell server. Of course I could have built one, but why bother? It's already way faster than need be for what it actually does, which is backups and a little media-serving.



NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

said by dave:

Actually, that much is obvious, given you're sneering at 250W power supplies with no context given. The last two desktop PCs I built (which would have met your $600 price point except I added $200 worth of SSD on top of that) have 150W power supplies, which is maybe double the steady-state requirement. And they perform pretty well.

The "my power supply is bigger than yours" crowd seems to have, uh, issues...

Yep, shown below are the UPS stats for my two servers, and the one with 140W usage also includes the common monitor and KVM used by both servers. Also the system that shows 115W usage has 5 internal HDDs (not low power SSDs), and two external HDDs (that are powered by the UPS, but not by that system's PSU).







And FYI, the reason I have not "standardized" on UPS brands/models is because I obtained those UPS boxes the same way that I obtained the Dell PCs that I have used; I got them from clients who preferred to purchase a new UPS rather than just buy new batteries (and pay me to replace them).
--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Krystal Trav

said by Krystal Trav :

People need to build their own PC's, it's not complicated and you can do fun stuff like use 2 SSD's and install Windows on one and Linux on the other, if you don't game, skip windows altogether and roll with Mint or something. But Dell is very painful, they use poor components, and install massive bloat onto their machines. I wouldn't recommend Dell to someone I disliked for fear of being too evil to them - let alone someone I liked!

A $600.00 computer - self built, is fast, and will be fast for years. A $600 Dell box is obsolete the day you get it, and requires extensive upgrades if you make even minor changes. You know those awesome 250w PS's, and hideous graphic cards they use. IF you choose to go with a higher end Dell, bend over! Lotta talk on these forum from people that are trying to appear to be experts, but the fact is folks like Mele20 are newbs - security or otherwise.

That's hilarious. I know you are the newb not me because what you said about Dell is not at all true. Sure, I could build one and a local shop here offered me any help I needed if I did that....but it is a hassle being in Hawaii...ordering parts that take a while to get here, may be DOA, etc. It is not fun to build a computer when you live in Hawaii. This local shop told me I could have them build me a computer exactly as I want it and I could have full control over what parts and brands of parts were ordered, etc. I decided against that also.

This will be my fourth Dell. And yeah, any $600 computer is junk INCLUDING a self built one. My current Dell that is over six years old has a 650 watt power supply .... so what is this about a 250 watt one? The one I probably am going to buy has a small solid state drive and also 2TB regular hard drive and I'll probably order a second regular hard drive to be installed at the factory. As for graphics, yeah, the nVidia (what I want) cards Dell offers are mediocre but that is nVidia's fault as they have no midstream cards currently. So, if I buy now I'll be getting the Radeon 7870 which Dell says works fine with a 460 watt power supply. I want the GeForce GTX 660 Ti which is due out third week of August. So, I'm going to wait as I think Dell will offer it.

As for bloat installed by Dell...yeah, they used to do that (that's how Dell Decrapifier came about years ago) and that is why I have bought in the past from Dell Small Business Division as no crap installed on ones bought from there. But from Dell Home division the one I am probably buying (Dell pulled them from Small Business in April...the desktops...the laptops can still be bought from that division) has only one piece of crap on it...McAfee antivirus but I understand that is a trial although it says 15 months. But if not actually installed then there is no crap on Dells today.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

And FYI, the reason I have not "standardized" on UPS brands/models is because I obtained those UPS boxes the same way that I obtained the Dell PCs that I have used; I got them from clients who preferred to purchase a new UPS rather than just buy new batteries (and pay me to replace them).

Really? Changing the battery on an APC UPS is not hard to do. But they do have to be re-calibrated after a battery change otherwise the Powerchute software will report weird crap. My current UPS is almost nine years old and the current battery in it is over 5 years old.

As for the power supply you can easily get sucked into needing true sinewave UPS with a larger power supply and they are more than twice the price of a good stepped sinewave one. That wasn't the case back when I got my current computer that has a 650 watt power supply but Energy Savings requirements were only in the early stages then. I may have a problem now even with just a 460 watt power supply and stepped sinewave.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

2 edits

said by Mele20:

said by NetFixer:

And FYI, the reason I have not "standardized" on UPS brands/models is because I obtained those UPS boxes the same way that I obtained the Dell PCs that I have used; I got them from clients who preferred to purchase a new UPS rather than just buy new batteries (and pay me to replace them).

Really? Changing the battery on an APC UPS is not hard to do. But they do have to be re-calibrated after a battery change otherwise the Powerchute software will report weird crap. My current UPS is almost nine years old and the current battery in it is over 5 years old...

Ease of battery changing depends very much on the actual UPS model. It takes me about an hour to change the batteries in my Eaton PowerWare Prestige UPS. It requires a complete dis assembly of the unit, and it is a total PITA to get the new batteries physically installed and then put the case back together without the batteries or internal components shifting position and keeping the case halves from fitting properly. Some older APC units are not exactly plug and play for battery changes either, although they are not nearly as difficult as doing so in the PowerWare box.

Not everything is/was built to be user friendly. Some things have in fact been deliberately built to force the user to return the unit to the factory or to an authorized repair depot for almost anything that needs to be done. Replacing batteries in an iPhone or iPad comes to mind for recently produced items that meet that criteria (and older model APC UPS boxes were also not designed to allow an end user who was not a competent electronics tech to change the batteries).
--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

And yeah, any $600 computer is junk INCLUDING a self built one.

More spouting off about absolutes without ever considering the use.

I suppose you wouldn't have any use for the $200 computer that I have running Windows 7 Media Center (which is perfectly powerful enough for what I use it for).

One size does not fit all requirements.

jupitermoon

join:2011-09-27
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

But from Dell Home division the one I am probably buying (Dell pulled them from Small Business in April...the desktops...the laptops can still be bought from that division)...

If you're referring to the XPS 8500 we talked about, Dell Small Business still has them:
»www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-8···d&~ck=mn

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

It no longer matters. The XPS 8500 is SERIOUSLY FLAWED. The PCIe ports are NON functional. Dell engineers have been trying to determine why but do not know and have no solution after the issue was first reported two months ago (when it was thought that the problem only involved eSATA cards in a PCIe x1 slot) but the problem is much worse than that. Hauppauge tuner card, Creative X-Fi Titanium card (that Dell lists as an order-able part for the 8500) and other PCIe x1 cards...NONE work. Sigh.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



antdude
A Ninja Ant
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join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit

said by Mele20:

It no longer matters. The XPS 8500 is SERIOUSLY FLAWED. The PCIe ports are NON functional. Dell engineers have been trying to determine why but do not know and have no solution after the issue was first reported two months ago (when it was thought that the problem only involved eSATA cards in a PCIe x1 slot) but the problem is much worse than that. Hauppauge tuner card, Creative X-Fi Titanium card (that Dell lists as an order-able part for the 8500) and other PCIe x1 cards...NONE work. Sigh.

What about Dell XPS 8000 model?
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

I'm a little confused. You mean the nVidia GForce 8800GTX PCIe card? I'm not sure why you would want to put that old of a card on a new XPS 8500 machine but if you did I doubt it would work.

Dell liaison posted about a hour ago in the thread at Dell forums and said that this matter of non functional PCIe x1 slots on the new Dell XPS 8500 "has been escalated to the highest levels. Many eyes are on it."

This Dell employee has offered the two Dell certified PCIe Creative cards that Parts lists for the 8500 free to the first two USA 8500 owners who contact him. Dell wants them to test the cards and report if the cards are found by the operating system and report back to him.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

said by Mele20:

I'm a little confused. You mean the nVidia GForce 8800GTX PCIe card? I'm not sure why you would want to put that old of a card on a new XPS 8500 machine but if you did I doubt it would work.

Dell liaison posted about a hour ago in the thread at Dell forums and said that this matter of non functional PCIe x1 slots on the new Dell XPS 8500 "has been escalated to the highest levels. Many eyes are on it."

This Dell employee has offered the two Dell certified PCIe Creative cards that Parts lists for the 8500 free to the first two USA 8500 owners who contact him. Dell wants them to test the cards and report if the cards are found by the operating system and report back to him.

Sorry I meant Dell XPS 8000 model. I fixed my typo.
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Oh, ok. This problem is only on the new XPS 8500 desktop.



antdude
A Ninja Ant
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join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

said by Mele20:

Oh, ok. This problem is only on the new XPS 8500 desktop.

Thanks.

jupitermoon

join:2011-09-27
reply to Mele20

I didn't know about the PCIe slot issue, but I lost interest after I'd read that Dell lied about the number of SATA 3.0 ports on the 8500. Dell originally advertised two SATA 3.0 and two SATA 2.0, but there's only one SATA 3.0! Who equips a new PC with only one SATA 3.0 port? If the PCIe slots are screwed up, forget adding a PCIe card with SATA 3.0 ports.

What are you looking at now? Dell now claims the Alienware is the only consumer PC with two SATA 3.0 ports.

»en.community.dell.com/support-fo···20113833


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

THIS IS VERY OT. Maybe this discussion could be moved to a new thread?

Sigh. I looked at HP computers...higher end...they are junk and get horrible reviews at least the ones I looked at. I can't buy from a boutique higher end maker (like Maingear or Falcon Northwest) because of shipping costs if any problems arise...it would be ok with a laptop but not desktop so I don't know what I will do.

I missed that thread you linked to but had picked up in more recent threads at Dell forum the fact that there is only one SATA 6.0 port instead of the 2 stated originally. I don't want a RAID configuration but still would want the second hard drive to run on SATA 6.0 port. I am really confused now though. If there is only one SATA 6.0 port then does that mean that if you choose the configuration with either the SSD 32GB or 250GB (if you can afford the latter) that it runs on the SATA 6.0 port and then the main hard drive has to run on SATA 3.0 port???

Then there are issues with the 8500 like the sound card mess. You can't put those old Creative cards you found on the Dell site in the 8500 (assuming Dell gets the PCIe slots problem solved) as Dell would probably say that violates the warranty because they are not approved parts and they have driver problems on Win 7 anyway but work fine on XP. Dell has only two parts listed for the 8500 and those are two Creative cards. One is a newer one (late 2011) that is evidently being sold outside the USA mostly and the other is the highest priced older Xi-Fi card which I don't think will work with my 4 speakers plus big subwoofer. I tried to ask about why Dell doesn't have a sound card on the configurator as they did for the 8300 and got answers from Dell associates that didn't answer my question. Plus, will a Creative sound card work with Windows 8 as I may end up with it? Plus, I suspect Dell has high prices on the two they list for the 8500 but no one seems to know the price. I basically got "idiot" responses from Dell to my question.

»en.community.dell.com/support-fo···20153652

Then there is the maximum RAM issue. Dell apparently no longer is saying that one can add up to 32MB RAM. I am NOT getting caught in this lie about available RAM AGAIN! Dell lied about the available RAM in the XPS 600 that I have. Now it looks like Dell's earlier statement that they would be offering the XPS 8500 with more than 16GB RAM later this year is another lie! Apparently, but no clear answer on it that I have seen, this machine is limited to 16MB RAM..mobo issue I suppose like with my XPS 600.

Dell should rename this machine. Part of the problem (aside from Dell's lying about the SATA 6 ports, maximum RAM,, etc) is that the XPS 8500 is not an XPS as Dell buyers have known it in the past. It stopped being an XPS when Dell acquired Alienware. My XPS 600 would today be sold as Alienware Aurora. Even if I had the money for Aurora it is still Sandybridge processor and is even larger than my XPS 600. There appear to be NO consumer type desktops anymore in the medium size range. They are small form factor and very difficult to work inside because of that.

I am very, very unhappy and frustrated. Plus, I just read Microsoft released Windows 8 to OEM today so how much longer will machines with Win 7 be offered?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

I personally think you got a good thing going here..and we all want to know your final decision when you do buy a new box.
Understand your frustration.


jupitermoon

join:2011-09-27
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

If there is only one SATA 6.0 port then does that mean that if you choose the configuration with either the SSD 32GB or 250GB (if you can afford the latter) that it runs on the SATA 6.0 port and then the main hard drive has to run on SATA 3.0 port???

There is only one SATA 3.0 port (6Gb/s). The rest are all SATA 2.0 ports (3Gb/s).

From what I have read on the Dell forums, no. It appears Dell puts the HDD on the lone SATA 3.0 port (6Gb/s) and the mSATA SSD on a SATA 2.0 port (3Gb/s). You can add a second SATA 3.0 HDD, but it will run at SATA 2.0 speeds because there isn't another SATA 3.0 port to connect it to.

Here are a couple of threads you might want to look at:

»en.community.dell.com/support-fo···20141266
»en.community.dell.com/support-fo···20152297

Some users claim to have bumped up the memory to 32GB on the XPS 8500.

If you want the links, let me know and I'll PM them.