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IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to peterboro

Re: [Serious] Mass shooting at Batman

said by peterboro:

Tens or even hundreds of thousands of people would be alive or uninjured if guns weren't accessible to anyone but the military or police.

...and hundreds of thousands more would be alive if police and military didn't have access to them either.

Millions of people would be alive if nobody had access to cars.

That's not even mentioning that banning something doesn't remove access.

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Net Citizen
said by Net Citizen:

For an example, two or more individuals are engaged in a heated road rage session. The difference between whether the incident escalates into a fist fight or something considerably more lethal could depend on whether or not one of the participants has a revolver in his glovebox.

Oh yeah? You wouldn't have any statistics to prove your point, would you? Maybe from one of the thirty or so states that have changed their policies to allow concealed carry over the past 20 years?

Lawful firearm owners are not the problem. Guns aren't the problem. CRIMINALS are the problem. Everything bad criminals do is already banned, yet it doesn't keep them from committing those acts. Do you really see a difference between getting killed by a firearm, a knife, a bomb or bare hands? Are you any more or any less dead?


Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
St John'S, NL
said by IamGimli:


Lawful firearm owners are not the problem. Guns aren't the problem. CRIMINALS are the problem. Everything bad criminals do is already banned, yet it doesn't keep them from committing those acts. Do you really see a difference between getting killed by a firearm, a knife, a bomb or bare hands? Are you any more or any less dead?

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.
--
It's one thing to listen to an idiot talk. As soon as you respond, there are now 2 idiots having a conversation.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:

said by peterboro:

Tens or even hundreds of thousands of people would be alive or uninjured if guns weren't accessible to anyone but the military or police.

...and hundreds of thousands more would be alive if police and military didn't have access to them either.

Millions of people would be alive if nobody had access to cars.

That's not even mentioning that banning something doesn't remove access.

Cars have a function in society where as hand guns are just little toys for guys who haven't grown up yet.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to Robert
said by Robert:

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.

And the NRA and all their lobbyists will be sure to come up with some excuse to continue to justify letting people like him have unfettered access to weapons. After all every weapon starts out in the hands of a legal law abiding entity whether it be person or corporation.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

Cars have a function in society where as hand guns are just little toys for guys who haven't grown up yet.

i assume you've never used one?


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Robert
said by Robert:

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.

and if he wasn't, he still would have obtained the same weapons.

Net Citizen

join:2009-01-22
Schenectady, NY
reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:

said by Net Citizen:

For an example, two or more individuals are engaged in a heated road rage session. The difference between whether the incident escalates into a fist fight or something considerably more lethal could depend on whether or not one of the participants has a revolver in his glovebox.

Oh yeah? You wouldn't have any statistics to prove your point, would you? Maybe from one of the thirty or so states that have changed their policies to allow concealed carry over the past 20 years?

Lawful firearm owners are not the problem. Guns aren't the problem. CRIMINALS are the problem. Everything bad criminals do is already banned, yet it doesn't keep them from committing those acts. Do you really see a difference between getting killed by a firearm, a knife, a bomb or bare hands? Are you any more or any less dead?

Amazingly enough, the entire gist of my post flew right over your head.

I'll try this again:

No amount of restrictions will prevent career criminals and determined killers from acquiring weaponry.

However, making it difficult to own firearms to the extent that the majority of the population do not own any (as in the case of Canada and Western Europe), deaths that occur as a result of accidental weapon discharge and/or unexpected altercations between two or more parties (armed gangs excluded) are greatly reduced. Someone has already posted some comparison statistics between the United States and other nations with gun control.

As was noted, the suspect in Colorado was anything but a criminal until that fateful night during the new Batman film screenings.

Is it really a surprise to you that law abiding individuals can become criminals over time? Or that guns which were originally purchased can suddenly become an accessory for murder after a road rage incident?

Easy access to firearms enables even upstanding citizens to make terrible mistakes in the heat of passion - errors in judgment from which there is no going back.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by Net Citizen:

Easy access to firearms enables even upstanding citizens to make terrible mistakes in the heat of passion - errors in judgment from which there is no going back.

while i understand your point, if he didn't have guns, could he use a bat, or knives?...it's not like criminals only started to exist when guns arrived...they have been around long before guns ever existed.

i'm not saying we should have guns for sale at 7-11, but i don't think banning all guns is a logical answer...as IamGimli stated (and i have before as well) there are already laws in place here that would prevent "by law" what happened...handguns and automatic weapons are either restricted or prohibited (depending on what they are)...they are heavily regulated and getting them legally isn't easy (here).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Net Citizen
said by Net Citizen:

For an example, two or more individuals are engaged in a heated road rage session. The difference between whether the incident escalates into a fist fight or something considerably more lethal could depend on whether or not one of the participants has a revolver in his glovebox.

And that consideration, that someone could be armed, deescalates so many road rage situations it's not even funny.

I've seen, with my own eyes, raging dudes hop out of their vehicles on a Saturday night burst out a few words then randomly chill out and hop back in the car. In Toronto, guaranteed brawl (of which I've seen many)... in Miami? Get it out of your system and move on. First time I'd seen that, I'd asked my Miami colleague, "what just happened?" "Well, neither side knows if the other is armed so no one starts any shit."

Based on what I've personally seen, your example is a good reason against strict gun control.

Comparing Miami, which resides in the labelled "gunshine state" of USA, per capita they have less murders, less rapes, less robberies, less assaults despite having more people than Buffalo, NY, which has strict gun control.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

i'm not saying we should have guns for sale at 7-11, but i don't think banning all guns is a logical answer...as IamGimli stated (and i have before as well) there are already laws in place here that would prevent "by law" what happened...handguns and automatic weapons are either restricted or prohibited (depending on what they are)

In Colorado, despite their history of Columbine, the fellow was able to legally buy a semiautomatic assault rifle capable of firing 50 to 60 rounds a minute....

I agree, we should NOT ban all guns. It's impractical, and probably undesirable as well as this point in the US.

But having people have handguns and long guns is a bit different from semiautomatic assault rifles.

People are not allowed to buy surface-to-air missiles.

People are not allowed to have anti-tank weapons (bazookas).

Why should those be illegal, yet semiautomatic assault rifles be legal?

On this issue, the Republicans are whores, and too many Democrats are cowards.


Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
St John'S, NL
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

said by Robert:

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.

and if he wasn't, he still would have obtained the same weapons.

First off, how do you know with certainty? He might fall into the keeping people honest category (unlikely but possible). Secondly, it would have been much harder. This logic of "he would have gotten it anyways" leads us to not banning anything as someone will get it anyways. Once again I ask: should we ban crack? Heroin? Whore houses? RPG's? IED's?
--
It's one thing to listen to an idiot talk. As soon as you respond, there are now 2 idiots having a conversation.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to PX Eliezer70
i agree with your points...assault rifles are likely "fun to shoot", so allowing them in controlled and regulated environments is likely acceptable (i intend on trying some myself in a couple of weeks), but there has to be a better way to regulate the sale of them...the problem is, as is often the case, us on the "right" often want sensible options, but those on the "left" want to swing things so far the opposite direction, then accuse us of wanting things so far in the "right" direction, it gets ridiculous...i feel that most of us in here on the "right" agree proper regulation is important, and don't feel that everyone should be able to own whatever they want, despite the fact those on the "left" seem to insinuate that.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell


Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
St John'S, NL
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

if he didn't have guns, could he use a bat, or knives?...it's not like criminals only started to exist when guns arrived...they have been around long before guns ever existed.

When was the last time one guy with one knife or bat killed 12 people and injured 58 in the span of minutes?
--
It's one thing to listen to an idiot talk. As soon as you respond, there are now 2 idiots having a conversation.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Robert
said by Robert:
First off, how do you know with certainty?
we don't, which is why an all out ban is useless...Guy Turcotte killed his kids...he was a doctor...he stabbed them...would it have been any different if they were shot??...why not a knife ban?

quote:
Once again I ask: should we ban crack? Heroin? Whore houses? RPG's? IED's?

i'm not sure why you ask??...those are already banned.
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

said by peterboro:

Cars have a function in society where as hand guns are just little toys for guys who haven't grown up yet.

i assume you've never used one?

You already know the answer as I posted several threads ago that I have fired probably more different handguns than most, if not all, posting in here.

Residing in the US gave me access to firearms that are restricted here and yes having done so they are fun little toys but have no place in society other than cops and military use.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Robert
said by Robert:

When was the last time one guy with one knife or bat killed 12 people and injured 58 in the span of minutes?

well, it certainly is much harder with a gun, and i understand that...but whether you kill 1, 2 or 12, does it really matter?

a quick google search pulled up this guy who bought a knife in a supermarket, then used it as a weapon, stabbing patrons in the foyer, until one patron brandished a firearm (he had a concealed carry permit) and told him to drop the weapon or he would shoot him...the suspect dropped the weapon and the situation was stopped immediately...either way, the situation was over, the only difference is the suspect was either going to be arrested, or was going to get shot (likely killed).

»www.abc4.com/content/news/top_st···9dQ.cspx

then there was this story, of 2 men, at least one armed with a knife who were trying to gain entry into a single mother's home...little did they know she was armed with a handgun and a 12 gauge shotgun...when they broke the door down to gain entry, she shot one of them (the other took off).

»www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article···cer.html
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

voidspace

join:2011-12-22
reply to peterboro
pretty damn sad if you think guns are toys...


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Robert
said by Robert:

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.

yet, for some reason, his mother wasn't surprised at all...there is more to this story than we currently know.

»www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/colorado-s···95421687
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:

....the problem is, as is often the case, us on the "right" often want sensible options....

Agreed.

The problem is, what is [right-wing] in Canada would be considered [moderate] in the US these days.

US right-wingers are kind of in a universe by themselves.

Our country must increasingly scare the shit out of you Canadians.

If you folks have not read the book or see the movie, you should:

The Handmaid's Tale is a dystopian novel, a work of science fiction or speculative fiction, written by Canadian author Margaret Atwood and published in 1985.

It is set in the near future in the Republic of Gilead, a totalitarian theocracy formed within the borders of what was formerly the United States of America. It was founded by a racist, homophobic, male chauvinist, nativist, theocratic-organized military coup as an ideologically driven response to the pervasive ecological, physical and social degradation of the country.

Beginning with a staged terrorist attack (blamed on Islamic extremist terrorists) that kills the President and most of Congress, a movement calling itself the "Sons of Jacob" launched a revolution and suspend the United States Constitution under the pretext of restoring order.

----Adapted from Wikipedia

They declare war on Canada, too, BTW.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to voidspace
said by voidspace:

pretty damn sad if you think guns are toys...

to be fair, many of the people who have them (illegally) treat them as such...i understand his point...and i don't pretend to think that everyone walking around armed is necessarily good either.


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
reply to jaberi
I'm totally against guns and think the U.S. should have a law such as Australia does.

But my main problem with this story as was pointed out in another forum is ''how does someone buy 6000 rounds of ammo on the internet''? and not raise any red flags ,especially in the states

Where was Homeland Security in all this,too busy taking down sports sites?

Ridiculous,if this was a Canadian he'd have the RCMP or CSIS on his doorstep that day.
--
~~Go Lions....back to back Cups!!~~


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to jaberi
This just in, movie goers will now be subjected to a full body cavity search before entering the movie theatre.

In order to ensure a happy and safe movie going experience, all patrons will be required to undergo a full body cavity search before entering the theatre. We have ordered full body scanners, in order to speed up the process. We expect them to be delivered in the next 6 months. The cost of these security precautions, as well as reduced screening times due to these checks, patrons will be charged minor security fee on their tickets. Surveys have shown us that the public doesn't mind such charges in order to ensure safe and happy movie going experience.

Persons whose faith don't allow them to discover in public will be shown to a private room, where they subject to the same screening precautions as the regular public.


--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
Ah, now the Theaters have a legit reason to shake down all their BYO food customers!


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Warez_Zealot:

Ah, now the Theaters have a legit reason to shake down all their BYO food customers!

They did it here in Niagara without a legitimate reason at a Cineplex Odeon theatre. I upset my date as I wouldn't let them search her purse for ideological reasons but she insisted they be allowed. I don't know if they still do this, it was a few years back.

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Robert
said by Robert:

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.

Up until Thursday night he was a lawful penis holder too. I guess all penis holders are just criminals in the making. Quick, get in line to get your penis cut off!

said by peterboro:

Cars have a function in society where as hand guns are just little toys for guys who haven't grown up yet.

Guns have just as much use in society as dirt bikes, pools, bungee cords, alcohol, bicycles, etc.

Even when they're misused that also cause a lot fewer deaths annually than any of these other socially unnecessary items.

Just because you're afraid that someone's got a bigger "gun" than yours doesn't give you the right to take the other guy's "gun" away.

said by Net Citizen:

Amazingly enough, the entire gist of my post flew right over your head.

Amazingly enough you failed to answer the question you asked. The fact of the matter is that states where concealed carry is allowed have FEWER incidents on road rage that lead to assault or attempted murder than states where concealed carry is illegal.

If your premise was correct police officers would get in roadside shootouts every day because every time they stop someone there's someone pissed off and there's at least one gun present. If guns made people more violent and more irrational there'd be shootouts every day. Yet reality is the exact opposite, because the presence (even if just supposed) of guns actually keep people civil.

said by PX Eliezer70:

But having people have handguns and long guns is a bit different from semiautomatic assault rifles.

"semiautomatic assault rifles" is an oxymoron. Assault rifles are fully automatic by definition.

Also due to the rules of physics the faster you fire a firearm the less precise you can be with it and the lower the chance you can actually hit a target.

said by Robert:

First off, how do you know with certainty?

Considering bomb making IS completely banned and illegal and that he didn't seem to have any issues assembling IEDs it's not much of a stretch to realize finding firearms, whether legally or not, wouldn't have been much of an issue either.

said by Robert:

When was the last time one guy with one knife or bat killed 12 people and injured 58 in the span of minutes?

The 9/11 hijackers killed 3,000 people using box cutters.

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people using nothing more than nitromethane (a racing fuel) and fertilizer, neither of which are banned to this day.

said by peterboro:

You already know the answer as I posted several threads ago that I have fired probably more different handguns than most, if not all, posting in here.

Residing in the US gave me access to firearms that are restricted here and yes having done so they are fun little toys but have no place in society other than cops and military use.

If you're scared of guns or of what you would do with guns then by all means you should stay from them. That gives you no right to decide for me though.

said by ZZZZZZZ:

But my main problem with this story as was pointed out in another forum is ''how does someone buy 6000 rounds of ammo on the internet''? and not raise any red flags ,especially in the states

Where was Homeland Security in all this,too busy taking down sports sites?

Ridiculous,if this was a Canadian he'd have the RCMP or CSIS on his doorstep that day.

Hahaha, you're so clueless. I've purchased more than 10,000 rounds in one purchase, over the internet, many times before. I still have to get a visit from the RCMP or CSIS.

Do you want to know WHY I bought over 10,000 rounds in one shot? Because it was a good deal!


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

US right-wingers are kind of in a universe by themselves.

Just as US left-wingers are in a universe by themselves

In a 2011 Gallup poll, 27% Americans identified as Republicans while 27% identified as Democrats. Independent voters take up the majority.

said by PX Eliezer70:

Our country must increasingly scare the shit out of you Canadians.

Not so much those of us that live near the border and make regular trips throughout the Americas, and see that the United States isn't as certain loud Canadians want us to believe it is. Mind you, people in Fort Erie close to Buffalo are off to a bad start...

said by PX Eliezer70:

If you folks have not read the book or see the movie, you should:

Margaret Atwood

They declare war on Canada, too, BTW.

Margaret Atwood, a vocal Canadian leftist, wrote many anti-American novels. She exaggerates and focuses on certain aspects of American ideals to portray her version of Canadian left wing values to be the best way that people should be.


ZZZZZZZ
Premium
join:2001-05-27
PARADISE
kudos:1
reply to IamGimli
quote:
I've purchased more than 10,000 rounds in one purchase, over the internet, many times before. I still have to get a visit from the RCMP or CSIS.
Well that answers any Qs I had about you.
--
~~Go Lions....back to back Cups!!~~


BigSensFan
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Whitby, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by ZZZZZZZ:

quote:
I've purchased more than 10,000 rounds in one purchase, over the internet, many times before. I still have to get a visit from the RCMP or CSIS.
Well that answers any Qs I had about you.

same here..it shows to me that he is very wise when spending his money on things he wants.... to paint it any other way is asinine
--
"The hardest thing about any political campaign is how to win without proving that you are unworthy of winning." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson