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Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
St John'S, NL
reply to jaberi

Re: [Serious] Mass shooting at Batman

DKS is fair to share his opinion on this tragedy just as you are free to share yours Ken (and you have shared plenty). You, nor I, nor just about anyone in here are not experts and are merely discussing an event.
--
It's one thing to listen to an idiot talk. As soon as you respond, there are now 2 idiots having a conversation.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
You are correct Robert... But if you clink on my link the person has a point... It is a form of stereotyping and stigmatizing a certain segment within our community... Not all persons who commit crimes or murder have mental health issues...


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by vue666:

You are correct Robert... But if you clink on my link the person has a point... It is a form of stereotyping and stigmatizing a certain segment within our community... Not all persons who commit crimes or murder have mental health issues...

Dressing up as The Joker, committing mass murder and then booby trapping your apartment are certainly strong indicators of non-rational thinking.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
And because of stereotyping, people with mental health issues are leery to come forward and disclose they have mental health issues...

Not all person with mental health issues commit murder not all murders are committed by mental health patients...

Let's wait and see what unfolds about this shooter before making assumptions.


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico
said by vue666:

Let's wait and see what unfolds about this shooter before making assumptions.

What, like...

said by vue666:

he was fully aware of his actions and the consequences (people would die)

Indeed, let's ALL do so.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

And because of stereotyping, people with mental health issues are leery to come forward and disclose they have mental health issues...

Not all person with mental health issues commit murder not all murders are committed by mental health patients...

Let's wait and see what unfolds about this shooter before making assumptions.

Then I presume you believe that dressing up like a cartoon character, killing a dozen people in a movie theatre and booby trapping your apartment is a sign of a healthy mind.

Right.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
said by DKS:

said by vue666:

And because of stereotyping, people with mental health issues are leery to come forward and disclose they have mental health issues...

Not all person with mental health issues commit murder not all murders are committed by mental health patients...

Let's wait and see what unfolds about this shooter before making assumptions.

Then I presume you believe that dressing up like a cartoon character, killing a dozen people in a movie theatre and booby trapping your apartment is a sign of a healthy mind.

Right.

Sorry DKS but this expert claims mass murderers often are not mentally ill, but seeking revenge....

»vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07···93940062


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
said by vue666:

Sorry DKS but this expert claims mass murderers often are not mentally ill, but seeking revenge....

»vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07···93940062

And why do people seek revenge? Think about this...
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
Instead of asking me, why not read the link and see what an expert believes...

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver

2 edits
I don't like the article. Saying he's a failure in life as a PhD drop out is kinda bizarre. He clearly flipped his lid for whatever reason.

What this guy did can't really be explained and wrapped into a tidy neat box/explanation.

Net Citizen

join:2009-01-22
Schenectady, NY
said by Warez_Zealot:

I don't like the article. Saying he's a failure in life as a PhD drop out is kinda bizarre. He clearly flipped his lid for whatever reason.

Not really.

The higher your status, the harder the fall when you fail - especially if you were previously an over-achiever.

Some people spend their lives aimed towards one particular goal and yet when unable to finally achieve it, cannot fathom an existence outside of what they have already invested in.

For those of us on the outside, we're puzzled by why the suspect couldn't have just settled for being incredibly intelligent while holding masters degrees.

In the suspect's mind however, not having that PHD nullifies everything.

It's the same reason some athletes, actors, musicians and extremely wealthy individuals, despite all their accomplishments and holdings, still end up committing suicide in the end.

Of course, we're just guessing and it could be another reason altogether why he did what he did. It could all be over some chick for all we know.

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver

1 edit
I guess that's one way of looking at it. If it's true I wish he would have taken some time off to work or travel and come back to finish his PhD. At 24 it's too young to get stuck up on minor bumps and detours.

For what it's worth I think he had a serious mental breakdown (which is very typical around that age *having a mental breakdown *) and I personally doubt he would have done this if the guns weren't so accessible.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
Perhaps instead of using guns then he would have used more bombs and explosives... And then there are ways to make home made guns...

»www.bryanandac.com/new_page_10.htm

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8dwtEPM···=related

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to Warez_Zealot
said by Warez_Zealot:

For what it's worth I think he had a serious mental breakdown (which is very typical around that age *having a mental breakdown *) and I personally doubt he would have done this if the guns weren't so accessible.

Tens or even hundreds of thousands of people would be alive or uninjured if guns weren't accessible to anyone but the military or police.


Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
St John'S, NL
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

Perhaps instead of using guns then he would have used more bombs and explosives... And then there are ways to make home made guns...

(youtube clip)

If someone truly wants to do something (break in to a house, kill someone), they are going to do it. We should always make it harder for them to do it.

Things like alarms, locks, and gun control keep the honest people honest.
--
It's one thing to listen to an idiot talk. As soon as you respond, there are now 2 idiots having a conversation.


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
If people are truly honest they are honest by nature and no need to have the authorities keep them honest...matter of fact your comment sounds a tad paranoid...

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

said by Warez_Zealot:

For what it's worth I think he had a serious mental breakdown (which is very typical around that age *having a mental breakdown *) and I personally doubt he would have done this if the guns weren't so accessible.

Tens or even hundreds of thousands of people would be alive or uninjured if guns weren't accessible to anyone but the military or police.

I agree but if guns with high capacity clips and personal assault rifles and hand guns were more restricted it would go a long way to preventing this stuff...

Anyhow I was listening to this: »www.google.com/search?hl=en&site···fHSyT_VI

Kinda possibly ties in to this.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X

Expand your moderator at work

jaberi

join:2010-08-13
reply to Warez_Zealot

Re: [Serious] Mass shooting at Batman

how does this guy have enough money coming in to cover rent, utilities, car, gas and 6000 rounds of ammo, two glock pistols, and an AR-15???
did he work as well as study?

Net Citizen

join:2009-01-22
Schenectady, NY

1 recommendation

reply to vue666
said by vue666:

If people are truly honest they are honest by nature and no need to have the authorities keep them honest...matter of fact your comment sounds a tad paranoid...

This is a problem with the Western perspective.

We attribute absolute values to individuals and classify them as such. We only see black and white, in other words.

The reality is that humans are not intrinsically good or evil.

Everyone on this planet is capable of depraved cruelty as well as compassion. Upbringing, societal and environmental factors can, but not always, play a part. People change over time as well.

Someone is always asking what kind of person would commit such a heinous crime.

The kind of person that would do this looks like you; looks like me. They are your friends, family and neighbours. In other words, everyone is a potential mass murderer when certain conditions are met.

Fortunately, for most of us, the ability to surpress primal urges is greater than the temptation, even if only out of fear for the consequences that may result.

The suspect in this case obviously felt he had nothing left to lose and thus, was not constrained by the self-imposed restrictions most productive citizens have in place for themselves.

As for the availability of firearms, I'm a firm believer that strict gun control is a good thing.

As some already pointed out, gun control will not prevent determined killers from acquiring weaponry from the underground economy or even using household tools to do the job if nothing else is available.

However, we are all creatures of habit and convenience. Gun control is effective at curbing the number of deaths that occur as a result of spontaneous violet crime - to say nothing of accidental deaths from the mishandling of firearms.

For an example, two or more individuals are engaged in a heated road rage session. The difference between whether the incident escalates into a fist fight or something considerably more lethal could depend on whether or not one of the participants has a revolver in his glovebox.
Expand your moderator at work

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to peterboro

Re: [Serious] Mass shooting at Batman

said by peterboro:

Tens or even hundreds of thousands of people would be alive or uninjured if guns weren't accessible to anyone but the military or police.

...and hundreds of thousands more would be alive if police and military didn't have access to them either.

Millions of people would be alive if nobody had access to cars.

That's not even mentioning that banning something doesn't remove access.

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Net Citizen
said by Net Citizen:

For an example, two or more individuals are engaged in a heated road rage session. The difference between whether the incident escalates into a fist fight or something considerably more lethal could depend on whether or not one of the participants has a revolver in his glovebox.

Oh yeah? You wouldn't have any statistics to prove your point, would you? Maybe from one of the thirty or so states that have changed their policies to allow concealed carry over the past 20 years?

Lawful firearm owners are not the problem. Guns aren't the problem. CRIMINALS are the problem. Everything bad criminals do is already banned, yet it doesn't keep them from committing those acts. Do you really see a difference between getting killed by a firearm, a knife, a bomb or bare hands? Are you any more or any less dead?


Robert
Premium
join:2002-03-11
St John'S, NL
said by IamGimli:


Lawful firearm owners are not the problem. Guns aren't the problem. CRIMINALS are the problem. Everything bad criminals do is already banned, yet it doesn't keep them from committing those acts. Do you really see a difference between getting killed by a firearm, a knife, a bomb or bare hands? Are you any more or any less dead?

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.
--
It's one thing to listen to an idiot talk. As soon as you respond, there are now 2 idiots having a conversation.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:

said by peterboro:

Tens or even hundreds of thousands of people would be alive or uninjured if guns weren't accessible to anyone but the military or police.

...and hundreds of thousands more would be alive if police and military didn't have access to them either.

Millions of people would be alive if nobody had access to cars.

That's not even mentioning that banning something doesn't remove access.

Cars have a function in society where as hand guns are just little toys for guys who haven't grown up yet.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to Robert
said by Robert:

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.

And the NRA and all their lobbyists will be sure to come up with some excuse to continue to justify letting people like him have unfettered access to weapons. After all every weapon starts out in the hands of a legal law abiding entity whether it be person or corporation.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

Cars have a function in society where as hand guns are just little toys for guys who haven't grown up yet.

i assume you've never used one?


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
reply to Robert
said by Robert:

Up until Thursday night, this guy was a lawful gun owner.

and if he wasn't, he still would have obtained the same weapons.

Net Citizen

join:2009-01-22
Schenectady, NY
reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:

said by Net Citizen:

For an example, two or more individuals are engaged in a heated road rage session. The difference between whether the incident escalates into a fist fight or something considerably more lethal could depend on whether or not one of the participants has a revolver in his glovebox.

Oh yeah? You wouldn't have any statistics to prove your point, would you? Maybe from one of the thirty or so states that have changed their policies to allow concealed carry over the past 20 years?

Lawful firearm owners are not the problem. Guns aren't the problem. CRIMINALS are the problem. Everything bad criminals do is already banned, yet it doesn't keep them from committing those acts. Do you really see a difference between getting killed by a firearm, a knife, a bomb or bare hands? Are you any more or any less dead?

Amazingly enough, the entire gist of my post flew right over your head.

I'll try this again:

No amount of restrictions will prevent career criminals and determined killers from acquiring weaponry.

However, making it difficult to own firearms to the extent that the majority of the population do not own any (as in the case of Canada and Western Europe), deaths that occur as a result of accidental weapon discharge and/or unexpected altercations between two or more parties (armed gangs excluded) are greatly reduced. Someone has already posted some comparison statistics between the United States and other nations with gun control.

As was noted, the suspect in Colorado was anything but a criminal until that fateful night during the new Batman film screenings.

Is it really a surprise to you that law abiding individuals can become criminals over time? Or that guns which were originally purchased can suddenly become an accessory for murder after a road rage incident?

Easy access to firearms enables even upstanding citizens to make terrible mistakes in the heat of passion - errors in judgment from which there is no going back.


dirtyjeffer
Anons on ignore, but not due to fear.
Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON
said by Net Citizen:

Easy access to firearms enables even upstanding citizens to make terrible mistakes in the heat of passion - errors in judgment from which there is no going back.

while i understand your point, if he didn't have guns, could he use a bat, or knives?...it's not like criminals only started to exist when guns arrived...they have been around long before guns ever existed.

i'm not saying we should have guns for sale at 7-11, but i don't think banning all guns is a logical answer...as IamGimli stated (and i have before as well) there are already laws in place here that would prevent "by law" what happened...handguns and automatic weapons are either restricted or prohibited (depending on what they are)...they are heavily regulated and getting them legally isn't easy (here).
--
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

- George Orwell