DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
to crazycanuck
Re: [Serious] Scarborough block party turns violentsaid by crazycanuck :McGuinty wants to ban hand guns. These guys seriously need to be kicked out of office. Ford and McGuinity either don't have a clue what they are doing or on drugs.
Banning hand guns won't change a thing. When police actually crack down on drug dealers things will change.
»thechronicleherald.ca/ca ··· shooting Outside a gun range, it makes sense. The UK has even more strict handgun regulation than Canada and as has been shown above, has a lower murder rate. |
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crazycanuck
Anon
2012-Jul-21 11:10 am
Two more shootings overnight. Separate locations. I guess one shouldn't go out a night. Most violent crimes occur at night. » toronto.ctvnews.ca/toron ··· 1.887860 |
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to DKS
said by DKS:Outside a gun range, it makes sense. The UK has even more strict handgun regulation than Canada and as has been shown above, has a lower murder rate. Vermont allows concealed carry without a permit; if an 18 year old decides he wants to walk outside his home with a gun strapped to him, he doesn't need to ask anyone. Vermont is in the lowest 49th state in crime rankings... out of how many states? El Paso, Texas... ranked as one of the safest cities in all of USA - "Texas poised to allow guns on campuses - El Paso Times" Whatever plausible, opportunistic arguments you may have for gun control, trying to prove it with crime rates is futile as it can easily be proven that there are areas that openly allow people to carry guns and have the lowest crime rates. |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
said by urbanriot:Whatever plausible, opportunistic arguments you may have for gun control, trying to prove it with crime rates is futile as it can easily be proven that there are areas that openly allow people to carry guns and have the lowest crime rates. The crime rates for handguns have been posted earlier. Gun control works at a whole bunch of levels, except for those who think believe they are so exceptional that their right to own a gun means they can walk anywhere and do anything. There are rules in place for a whole bunch of good reasons. This is just another example of why we need and have strong gun control legislation and have in Canada (except for the Damned Reformatories and their foolish destruction of the gun registry to kow-tow to their voter base). |
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TLS2000 Premium Member join:2004-02-24 Elmsdale, NS |
TLS2000
Premium Member
2012-Jul-21 9:57 am
Yes, heaven forbid they should do what they were elected to do. |
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vue666 (banned)Let's make Canchat better!!! join:2007-12-07 |
vue666 (banned) to DKS
Member
2012-Jul-21 9:57 am
to DKS
Still believe criminals would register their firearms, eh... |
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vue666 |
vue666 (banned) to DKS
Member
2012-Jul-21 11:44 am
to DKS
said by DKS:said by urbanriot:Whatever plausible, opportunistic arguments you may have for gun control, trying to prove it with crime rates is futile as it can easily be proven that there are areas that openly allow people to carry guns and have the lowest crime rates. The crime rates for handguns have been posted earlier. Gun control works at a whole bunch of levels, except for those who think believe they are so exceptional that their right to own a gun means they can walk anywhere and do anything. There are rules in place for a whole bunch of good reasons. This is just another example of why we need and have strong gun control legislation and have in Canada (except for the Damned Reformatories and their foolish destruction of the gun registry to kow-tow to their voter base). Yup the crime rates have been posted YET you continue to ignore the fact Vermont is one of the safest states... |
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urbanriot
Premium Member
2012-Jul-21 12:32 pm
said by vue666:said by DKS:said by urbanriot:Whatever plausible, opportunistic arguments you may have for gun control, trying to prove it with crime rates is futile as it can easily be proven that there are areas that openly allow people to carry guns and have the lowest crime rates. The crime rates for handguns have been posted earlier. Gun control works at a whole bunch of levels, except for those who think believe they are so exceptional that their right to own a gun means they can walk anywhere and do anything. There are rules in place for a whole bunch of good reasons. Yup the crime rates have been posted YET you continue to ignore the fact Vermont is one of the safest states... That's how it goes. Proof that people can responsibly use guns? "I don't care, I hate guns." Whenever people are killed, the same people engage in political opportunism and trot out, "this is why we need to take guns away from law abiding citizens" and the deaths are their proof. Why don't we investigate how much we victimize and molly coddle people with 'psychological diseases' or treat certain crimes with wrist slaps? Let's take advantage of this situation to do that. Or why don't we investigate how he was able to stockpile so much weaponry in such a short time? Can people in Canada buy "an A-15 assault rifle" followed by "four guns at local gun shops and through the Internet [purchase] over 6,000 rounds of ammunition, more than 3,000 rounds of 223 ammunition for the assault rifle, 3,000 rounds of 40 caliber ammunition for the two glocks in his possession, 300 rounds for the 12 gauge shotgun" and 'through the internet [purchase] multiple magazines for the 223 caliber assault rifle including one 100 round drum magazine which was recovered from the scene.' ... in 60 days, can you do that in Canada? |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
to TLS2000
said by TLS2000:Yes, heaven forbid they should do what they were elected to do. Doesn't make it right. |
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DKS |
to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:That's how it goes. Proof that people can responsibly use guns? "I don't care, I hate guns." Yup. There is no reason for anyone outside of police and certain security guards to carry a handgun in Canada, save being in the wilderness, for protection (and a pistol will do nothing to bring down a bear except make them more angry). |
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g121play lordsgame com | Phone Cops are real join:2004-05-28 Toronto Hitron CODA-4680 Asus RT-AC86 Grandstream HT812
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g121
Member
2012-Jul-21 12:57 pm
re: Yup. There is no reason for anyone outside of police and certain security guards to carry a handgun in Canada, save being in the wilderness, for protection (and a pistol will do nothing to bring down a bear except make them more angry). -- Need-based health care not greed-based health care.
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vue666 (banned)Let's make Canchat better!!! join:2007-12-07 |
vue666 (banned) to DKS
Member
2012-Jul-21 1:29 pm
to DKS
said by DKS:said by TLS2000:Yes, heaven forbid they should do what they were elected to do. Doesn't make it right. So keeping an election promise is wrong... Gimme a break.... |
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JG_ont to DKS
Anon
2012-Jul-21 2:01 pm
to DKS
said by DKS:said by urbanriot:That's how it goes. Proof that people can responsibly use guns? "I don't care, I hate guns." Yup. There is no reason for anyone outside of police and certain security guards to carry a handgun in Canada, save being in the wilderness, for protection (and a pistol will do nothing to bring down a bear except make them more angry). Wrong. There's no reason FOR YOU. You're projecting your incapabilities on the rest of society, so you should adjust your assertions to reflect your abilities and not the abilities of other people in our society. The people you're all discussing weren't shot by responsible gun owners. |
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3 edits |
to DKS
said by DKS:Yup. There is no reason for anyone outside of police and certain security guards to carry a handgun in Canada, save being in the wilderness, for protection (and a pistol will do nothing to bring down a bear except make them more angry). I guess you'll be happy to know that carrying handguns is ALREADY illegal in Canada then, even for lawful handgun owners. BTW you seem quite happy to quote English statistics regarding banning handguns. How about you quote the statistics between before they banned handguns to now? How about quoting their crime rates from before they banned handguns to now? Please, enlighten us. You may also want to refer on this previous thread on the topic when I proved gun bans have absolutely no impact on gun crime rates as there are at least as many countries with less stringent controls and lower gun crime rates as there are countries with more stringent controls and lower gun crime rates. There's also at least as many countries with more stringent controls and higher gun crime rates. The fact of the matter is that everywhere gun control measures have been relaxed gun crime has gone down. That is most obvious in the 30 or so US states that have started allowing concealed carry over the last 20 years and which have ALL seen reduced gun crimes, and reduced crime rates in general. said by urbanriot:Can people in Canada buy "an A-15 assault rifle" followed by "four guns at local gun shops and through the Internet [purchase] over 6,000 rounds of ammunition, more than 3,000 rounds of 223 ammunition for the assault rifle, 3,000 rounds of 40 caliber ammunition for the two glocks in his possession, 300 rounds for the 12 gauge shotgun" and 'through the internet [purchase] multiple magazines for the 223 caliber assault rifle including one 100 round drum magazine which was recovered from the scene.'
... in 60 days, can you do that in Canada? As a matter of fact, yes, it is possible to do all that in Canada (except for the 100 round drum magazine, which is a prohibited item). You could do it all in one afternoon if you wished. The restricted firearm sales (AR-15 and handguns in this case) would go to the provincial CFO for review and approval before the transfer would be approved and, in a case like that, references provided when applying for the firearm license would likely get called to double-check whether there's anything wrong with the license holder (such as being laid off, relationship breakup, mental illness, etc.) before the transfer would be approved. If I had the disposable income to do it I could be done by the end of the weekend, although I'd have no need to as I pretty much already own all that, just like thousands of other Canadians. As a matter of fact tomorrow I'm taking a fellow DSLReporter out to the range and will be lugging around a very similar inventory. I'll let you know if any of my firearm goes rogue and kills a bunch of people on it's own when I drive by the theater. In the case of a criminal, he could still do all that, except there'd be no checks whatsoever and whatever firearm he'd be purchasing would have their serial number filed off. |
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digitalfuturSees More Than Shown Premium Member join:2000-07-15 GTA
1 recommendation |
to DKS
The registration and registry of handguns is unaffected by the changes the Conservatives made to the long gun registry, as is the requirement to hold a valid Purchase and Acquisition Licence (PAL) to purchase a long gun or any ammunition. Someone determined enough to get weapons will get them, no matter how much gun control there is; just as someone determined to kill someone else is not going to let the absence of a gun stop them. A cultural change is required to reduce handgun crime. That's not to say that handguns and long guns should be completely unregulated, but going to the other extreme, banning private ownership, won't eliminate the relatively rare mass shootings that have occurred in countries that have very stringent gun control, such as the U.K. and Norway. That's why public policy based on singular or rare incidents doesn't work. It is however, the only option left for those who ignore evidence-based outcomes when they conflict with their political opinion of the issue. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu ··· massacre |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
to JG_ont
said by JG_ont :said by DKS:said by urbanriot:That's how it goes. Proof that people can responsibly use guns? "I don't care, I hate guns." Yup. There is no reason for anyone outside of police and certain security guards to carry a handgun in Canada, save being in the wilderness, for protection (and a pistol will do nothing to bring down a bear except make them more angry). Wrong. There's no reason FOR YOU. You're projecting your incapabilities on the rest of society, so you should adjust your assertions to reflect your abilities and not the abilities of other people in our society. The people you're all discussing weren't shot by responsible gun owners. Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period. |
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DKS |
to digitalfutur
Cue the usual pro-gun/pro-RefomaTories chorus. It gets tiresome. |
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DKS |
to vue666
said by vue666:said by DKS:said by TLS2000:Yes, heaven forbid they should do what they were elected to do. Doesn't make it right. So keeping an election promise is wrong... Gimme a break.... If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning... |
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BonezXBasement Dweller Premium Member join:2004-04-13 Canada
1 recommendation |
BonezX to DKS
Premium Member
2012-Jul-21 4:04 pm
to DKS
said by DKS:Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period. and nobody can carry a handgun on them in public other then security and police, it is ILLEGAL to carry a handgun in public unless you fall into either category. people that have handguns to even keep them, they have to be part of a registered handgun range, they have to follow a specific route to and from, the handgun must be in a locked hard case, must have a trigger lock, and kept out of sight during transportation. as well as when they are kept in the home they have to be unloaded locked up, trigger lock and separate ammunition. that is the basics of the laws for handguns in Canada, and guess what, we CANNOT take them out hunting with us, that is also illegal. so the point of saying only police and security should carry handguns, is actually showing that you don't know the laws, they are the ONLY ones that can carry them in public, and no citizen can legally go out hunting and bring a handgun with them. any citizen at any time with a handgun out in public will be arrested and charged, and here is the fun part, if you are a LEGAL owner of a handgun you get about 4-5 charges for having your registered legally owned object on you, which is stupid considering that if you get caught with an unregested restricted weapon they only really take it from you and give you a slap on the wrist, as seen in the hundreds of little gang-bangers when they get caught. also, there are more or less the same restrictions on long-gun transportation/storage as well(locked, out of sight, unloaded) |
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vue666 (banned)Let's make Canchat better!!! join:2007-12-07 |
vue666 (banned) to DKS
Member
2012-Jul-21 4:28 pm
to DKS
said by DKS:If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning... Bankrupt how? And I'll ask once more...Do you really believe criminals will register their guns? Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)... |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
said by vue666:said by DKS:If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning... Bankrupt how? And I'll ask once more...Do you really believe criminals will register their guns? Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)... The point is never to get criminals to register their guns. That's is a silly, nonsensical argument. The point to to have knowledge of weapons and to have some idea of their "trail". |
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DKS |
to BonezX
said by BonezX:said by DKS:Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period. and nobody can carry a handgun on them in public other then security and police, it is ILLEGAL to carry a handgun in public unless you fall into either category. Yes, I'm well aware of those laws and restrictions. Your point? Other than to be defensive? |
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KardinalDei Gratina Regina Mod join:2001-02-04 N of 49th |
to vue666
said by vue666:Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)... So we should just legalize everything that is banned, since the bans aren't working? I don't follow your logic. |
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dirtyjeffer0Posers don't use avatars. Premium Member join:2002-02-21 London, ON |
to DKS
said by DKS:Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period. well, pray for me...on August 8th i will be going to the range to fire a variety of firearms...it will be fun...no one will get hurt...i suppose we will all die in hell. |
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vue666 (banned)Let's make Canchat better!!! join:2007-12-07 |
vue666 (banned) to DKS
Member
2012-Jul-21 4:55 pm
to DKS
said by DKS:said by vue666:said by DKS:If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning... Bankrupt how? And I'll ask once more...Do you really believe criminals will register their guns? Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)... The point is never to get criminals to register their guns. That's is a silly, nonsensical argument. The point to to have knowledge of weapons and to have some idea of their "trail". And the guns criminals use will have this trail? I think not. Most are from illegal entry into Canada and those that are stolen domestically will have their serial numbers filed off... |
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to DKS
said by DKS:Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period. Please, if guns are the problem, how is it that police and military are immune to their effect? Oh wait, they're not. As a matter of fact police and military misuse firearms at about the same rate as lawful firearm owners, yet somehow you don't seem to have a problem with that. Why is that? If firearms have no useful purpose, why should the police and military have them? If they do have a purpose, why shouldn't anybody else who's proven to be as proficient and dependable as those guys not be allowed to have them? said by DKS:Cue the usual pro-gun/pro-RefomaTories chorus. It gets tiresome. You better get used to it because the anti-gun, dance-on-the-grave-of-victims, social-engineering, elitist "we-know-better-than-reality" chorus has gone on unopposed way longer than it ever should have in this country and lawful citizens have had quite enough to be treated like criminals in the name of your thirst for power and control. said by DKS:If the election promise is ethically bankrupt in the beginning... The only thing bankrupt in this debate is the Canadian Firearms Program, to the tune of $2 billion dollars in the hole, for absolutely nothing but making hoplophobes feel better. said by DKS:The point is never to get criminals to register their guns. That's is a silly, nonsensical argument. The point to to have knowledge of weapons and to have some idea of their "trail". Banning handguns drives them all into the black market, where there is no knowledge or tracking of them whatsoever. What "trail" are you following then? As a matter of fact, what "trail" are you following now? Handguns have been registered and tracked since 1934 in Canada. Doesn't seem to keep the gang bangers from shooting each other with illegal handguns on a fairly regular basis. said by DKS:Yes, I'm well aware of those laws and restrictions. Your point? Other than to be defensive? His point is that your argument is worthless because it's based on a false premise, just like everything else you claim. Funny how you can't back up your claims with any facts whatsoever. |
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vue666 (banned)Let's make Canchat better!!! join:2007-12-07 |
to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:said by vue666:Banning something does not work (prohibition, drugs, etc)... So we should just legalize everything that is banned, since the bans aren't working? I don't follow your logic. SO should I then deduce you believe prohibition worked? That our present marijuana laws are adequate? OR would you prefer to live in a police state... To live in a free and democratic society there will always be risks. Empowering the government to control our lives is not a good idea... It is perplexing to believe criminals who do not uphold the law will obey gun laws when they commit crimes.. quote: Thomas Jefferson When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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to DKS
said by DKS:Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period. Ever faced a bear before? Pistols are like pea shooters to them. |
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Ian1 Premium Member join:2002-06-18 ON |
Ian1 to DKS
Premium Member
2012-Jul-21 5:28 pm
to DKS
said by DKS:said by BonezX:said by DKS:Nope. There is no reason outside of the categories I named above. Period. and nobody can carry a handgun on them in public other then security and police, it is ILLEGAL to carry a handgun in public unless you fall into either category. Yes, I'm well aware of those laws and restrictions. Your point? Other than to be defensive? The point is obvious. "Banning handguns" is knee-jerk reactionary silliness. Further restricting legal handguns wouldn't have done a thing to prevent this shooting. You know something that might? I do. - Stiff mandatory sentences for those caught with an illegal handgun in the commission of a crime. And I don't mean "The first thing dealt away in a plea bargain." I mean, you're caught with a gun, while committing a crime, and you're spending a minimum of 10 years in jail. Period. Regardless of any other charges or soft left-wing belief that "Meh...guy caught with a loaded Glock while dealing crack will be a fine re-addition to our society in 6 months or so. Heck....maybe even house arrest will be ok." Waiting to see how many of those who did the shooting in this case were out on parole or early release from some other crime. I'm betting 80-100%. Your guess? |
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vue666 (banned)Let's make Canchat better!!! join:2007-12-07 3 edits |
to milnoc
Repeating something like criminals will register there guns or hand guns can not stop a bear doesn't make it true... Note some of the following bears killed by an hand gun were grizzlies... If it'll stop a grizzly it'll stop your Ontario black bears... quote: Grizzly Bear Shot and Killed By Hikers In Denali National Park and Preserve
A grizzly bear that emerged from a thicket and charged two backpackers in the backcountry of Denali National Park and Preserve was shot and killed by one of the two who was carrying a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to park officials.
»www.nationalparkstravele ··· erve5943
Petersens Hunting - Handgun hunting bears... » archives.petersenshuntin ··· ng-bearsquote: Bear killed with .40 caliber handgun - Alaska Today's Midland Reporter Telegram contains an AP article describing a bear mauling incident occurring in Alaska.
»sleepless.blogs.com/geor ··· wit.html
quote: Man kills charging bear with .454 Casull Greg Brush, an Alaskan fishing guide, was ambushed with no warning by a charging bear. All he had time to do was pull out his .454 Casull and fire as fast as possible, while falling backwards after tripping on a branch. The Anchorage Daily News reports:
»www.thefirearmblog.com/b ··· -casull/
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