| [Scam] Perfectly legal scam I got a letter today from a company offering to get the documentation about my home mortgage from the local courthouse. They are willing to provide this "service" for only $89, despite the facts that: 1) I could get these papers from the courthouse myself for a lot less money and 2) I got copies of these papers when my mortgage closed. This is not a new scam, as I first heard about it at least twenty years ago. There is nothing illegal about it either -- this outfit is just offering to do the legwork for me. I consider it a scam because the letter implied that I really needed these documents and never indicated that I could get them myself. They are looking for naive people who will not only jump at the chance to take advantage of this "offer" but will thank the scum who take advantage of them. It makes me angry, and it makes me sick. |
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| I will grant you, the letters are usually misleading about how much you "need" the documents. But aside from that, I have hard time tagging it as a scam.
You can pay a guy to mow your lawn, but just because you could do it yourself for free doesn't make him a scammer for charging you. Nor for suggesting your lawn needs to be mowed. |
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| I do need my lawn mowed from time to time, but I don't need these documents. IMO, if I convince you that you need to spend money on something you don't need, and most of that money ends up in my pocket, I am a scammer. |
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 SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
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| reply to Camelot One
said by Camelot One:I will grant you, the letters are usually misleading about how much you "need" the documents. But aside from that, ...
"But aside from that,"
How can you dismiss a key element of the scam & then say you have a hard time calling it a scam?
An event needs to be judged on it's totality. |
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| Because you don't "need" most of the products and services being offered. Yet 18 minutes of every hour of television is one ad after another telling you otherwise. Convincing people they "need" your product/service is just basic advertising.
If they were charging $89 to deliver nothing, it would be a scam. But if they can make $89 off of people who are too lazy to go to the clerks office on their own, and they actually deliver what they are advertising, then I say more power to them. |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
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| said by Camelot One:Because you don't "need" most of the products and services being offered. Yet 18 minutes of every hour of television is one ad after another telling you otherwise. Convincing people they "need" your product/service is just basic advertising.
I see where you're coming from & it's not an unreasonable place.
There are many 'services' that can be done for free that are sold without rising to the point of being a scam.
It's not about a free service having a fee associated with it.
It's about the relative value of the service being offered.
Car registration in Honolulu is a good case in point.
I can go & register a car for only the registration fee or I can pay a company to do the registration for me at a premium (~$80)
For my $80 I save a trip to town & few hours waiting in line.
I wouldn't call that service a scam although I could do it for free if I chose to.
Here's the difference:
I need to register my car or suffer all sorts of penalties especially if I drive the car on a public roadway.
I'm sure that 1000's of times every day across the nation someone gets into trouble for lack of car registration.
What consequence befalls an unwitting home owner who fails to maintain a hard copy of ones public record mortgage documents?
How many times a day across the nation does the need for a home owner to have that hard copy into play? |
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| reply to Camelot One
said by Camelot One:I will grant you, the letters are usually misleading about how much you "need" the documents. But aside from that, I have hard time tagging it as a scam.
You can pay a guy to mow your lawn, but just because you could do it yourself for free doesn't make him a scammer for charging you. Nor for suggesting your lawn needs to be mowed.
Yeah, but the guy cutting your lawn doesn't imply you can't do it yourself or he is giving you any special service unavailable doing it yourself. |
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| reply to Popster27
Exploiter maybe, scammer no, a scammer entails illegal activity.
Immoral, Inhumane, Exploitative maybe, but scammer? No. |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
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| Definition for scammer:
Web definitions:
swindler: a person who swindles you by means of deception or fraud.
»www.google.com/search?q=define%3···irefox-a
Implying that a mortgage is at risk for the lack of having a local copy of publicly available mortgage documents is deceitful.
It must be deceitful because it is not true.
de·ceit·ful/diˈsētfəl/
Adjective:
(of a person) Deceiving or misleading others, typically on a habitual basis.
Intended to deceive or mislead.
Synonyms:
deceptive - false - fraudulent - delusive - lying
»www.google.com/search?q=define%3···&bih=309 |
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 KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:7 | reply to Popster27
That's a stretch. It's not scamming you out of anything. |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
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| said by Krisnatharok:That's a stretch. It's not scamming you out of anything.
Yeah, you're right.
It's not scamming me out of anything.
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KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium
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Earth Orbit
kudos:7 | You mean you actually take salesmen at their word?? |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
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Kailua, HI
kudos:6 | The difference is that not all salespeople peddle snake oil. |
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KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:7 | Anyone who doesn't understand that salespeople exist to offer convenience for money. Nothing else. The "scam" in the OP falls under this, oil changes at the dealership fall under this, and warranties at Best Buy fall under this.
You could call any of these "scams." It's merely convenience.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening. |
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| reply to Popster27
While those letters don't fit the complete definition of "scam", they are scammy and deceptively written to look like municipal correspondence with an urgent "respond now" tone. I almost fell for it, but then noticed fine print on the bottom with disclaimer language that indicated that it wasn't from the city. |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
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| reply to Krisnatharok
said by Krisnatharok:Anyone who doesn't understand that salespeople exist to offer convenience for money. Nothing else. The "scam" in the OP falls under this, oil changes at the dealership fall under this, and warranties at Best Buy fall under this.
You could call any of these "scams." It's merely convenience.
I wouldn't call a dealership oil change or a Best Buy warranty scams.
I do call the
"offering to get the documentation about my home mortgage from the local courthouse. They are willing to provide this "service" for only $89,"
a scam.
Why is that?
Any point of contention re a dealership oil change or a Best Buy warranty would be about the cost vs relative value which is subjective whereas the value of retaining a local copy of documentation about a home mortgage is non-existent.
short story: the mortgage documentation doesn't have any value so it's relative worth is not subjective.
There's a difference between selling something at a hyper inflated price & selling snake oil at any price. |
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KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:7 | Maybe someone works five days a week and can't get down there. Maybe they have to submit all their annual leave a year in advance and are just that inflexible. Maybe $90 is a steal if they need their documents for some reason.
And a BB warranty IS a scam.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening. |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
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| said by Krisnatharok:Maybe someone works five days a week and can't get down there.
Can't get down there to get the documentation?
1. Why would someone need to have a local copy of publicly available mortgage documents?
2. What adverse consequence would a person face for not having it?
3. What benefit would be realized by maintaining that copy?
Answers:
1. There isn't any need.
2. None.
3. Same as #2
That's why it's a scam. |
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KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:7 | No idea. Why do people buy half the unnecessary shit they do?
Don't forget to opt for the Maintenance II package next time you take your car to the dealer. |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
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| said by Krisnatharok:No idea. Why do people buy half the unnecessary shit they do?
That's a good point, well taken.
said by Krisnatharok:Don't forget to opt for the Maintenance II package next time you take your car to the dealer.
hehe, you make a strong argument using car dealerships & Best Buy as scam comparisons, but dig deep enough & you can find some sense of potential benefit in their offerings albeit not very good values. |
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