Topic 'Re: got my smart meter today' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:20:24 EDT

guppy_fish posted :

Actually - just did a check - that 1.5 HP pool pump has a steady power draw of about 1 kw.

Its closer to 2.2kwh for a 1.5HP pump

»www.ecopumpmotors.com/pool-pump-···ews.html

First 1HP with 100% efficiency is 745 watts, but pool motors are far from being 100% efficient, closer to 50% at best.

Next, most pools don't need more than 3/4 HP. its all to common that installer just slap in an over sized motor

»www.energysavers.gov/your_home/w···ic=13290

Re: got my smart meter today

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 00:37:33 EDT

chamberc posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by TA63:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Those 100+ degrees really are hard to handle. So far we are hovering a little under 100 here. My June 15 to July 17 usage was 33 kW/day.

Consumption of electric power is typically billed in kW/h. Is this what you are referring to?
It seems like your units are a little mixed up.

My mistake. It's 33 kWh/day usage.

You've got to be kidding me. I have 2 14 seer units installed in 2008 & 2009, no pool, 3100 sq ft:

Here is my recent usage:

07/17/2012 104.923
07/18/2012 110.377
07/19/2012 107.707
07/20/2012 104.899
07/21/2012 120.664
07/22/2012 120.946
07/23/2012 100.564
07/24/2012 105.094
07/25/2012 111.414

Temps have been in the high 90's/low 100's. Thank goodness prices are around $0.08 kw/hr...

Re: got my smart meter today

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:04:20 EDT

iknow posted :

said by scooper:

Actually - just did a check - that 1.5 HP pool pump has a steady power draw of about 1 kw. I think what really kills me in comparison to you is
A. Larger house (2400 sq feet that is heated / cooled)
B. 4 Ton 12 SEER Trane heat pump. (installed in 1997).
C. I do use my programmable thermostat - set to 72 while we're sleeping, and 75 when we're up.

We both probably have electric tank water heaters, same number of residents (2).

Laundry day - last sunday we used 160 KWHr (electric dryer) (and that was "only" 4 loads).

i've found 6 hours a day for a pool pump to be quite satisfactory, you can install better insulation in your house and save money there too. if you can get natural gas, switch the range, water heater, and dryer to gas.

Re: got my smart meter today

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:35:58 EDT

acid343211 posted : My smart Meter shows the KW.

Re: got my smart meter today

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 18:00:56 EDT

scross posted : For the more "curious" among us: »www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/22···amework/

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:11:01 EDT

scooper posted : Actually - just did a check - that 1.5 HP pool pump has a steady power draw of about 1 kw. I think what really kills me in comparison to you is
A. Larger house (2400 sq feet that is heated / cooled)
B. 4 Ton 12 SEER Trane heat pump. (installed in 1997).
C. I do use my programmable thermostat - set to 72 while we're sleeping, and 75 when we're up.

We both probably have electric tank water heaters, same number of residents (2).

Laundry day - last sunday we used 160 KWHr (electric dryer) (and that was "only" 4 loads).

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:54:17 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by scooper:

I could only wish my usage was that low !

In these hot summer days, I'm running around 100 KWHr / day . I am running a pool pump about 9 hours per day as well.

A big part of it is I don't have a pool pump. that is expensive to operate.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:49:16 EDT

scooper posted : I could only wish my usage was that low !

In these hot summer days, I'm running around 100 KWHr / day . I am running a pool pump about 9 hours per day as well.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:19:34 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by TA63:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Those 100+ degrees really are hard to handle. So far we are hovering a little under 100 here. My June 15 to July 17 usage was 33 kW/day.

Consumption of electric power is typically billed in kW/h. Is this what you are referring to?
It seems like your units are a little mixed up.

My mistake. It's 33 kWh/day usage.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:35:13 EDT

TA63 posted :

said by aannoonn :

You mean kWh, not kW/h.

Thank you, this is what was intended.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:22:23 EDT

anon posted :

said by TA63:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Those 100+ degrees really are hard to handle. So far we are hovering a little under 100 here. My June 15 to July 17 usage was 33 kW/day.

Consumption of electric power is typically billed in kW/h. Is this what you are referring to?
It seems like your units are a little mixed up.

You mean kWh, not kW/h. Jack means kWh/day.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:18:40 EDT

Oedipus posted :

said by jchambers28:

damn you must be rich to be able to afford bills like that.

Here in CA with our wonderfully skewed tiered billing structure that puts you somewhere between 40 and 50 cents per kwh if you use a nightlight for more than a few hours a month, $600+ bills are easy to reach in the summer. 1400, though, that really is something you would see at an aluminum refinery or something. ;)

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:33:21 EDT

TA63 posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

Those 100+ degrees really are hard to handle. So far we are hovering a little under 100 here. My June 15 to July 17 usage was 33 kW/day.

Consumption of electric power is typically billed in kW/h. Is this what you are referring to?
It seems like your units are a little mixed up.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 08:01:06 EDT

workablob posted :

said by jchambers28:

damn you must be rich to be able to afford bills like that.

I would be rich if I didn't have bills like that.

But, those type bills are in the past so now I can start working on becoming Ri...Damn, Mothin-In-Law needs to come live with us.

New room addition and 50K of new debt.

Doh.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

Re: got my smart meter today

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:01:00 EDT

jchambers28 posted : damn you must be rich to be able to afford bills like that.

Re: got my smart meter today

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:45:40 EDT

workablob posted :

said by jchambers28:

what are you running a steel mill?

Those bills were from 2008 and prior. LOL and the over 1K was due to not being able to read meters for a couple of months after the IKE Hurricane.

Nowadays with all the new AC and energy efficient stuff I have done it's not going to be more than 400 +/- a month.

Those bills represent an old 1992 single 3 ton 10.5 seer unit on a 2,300 sq. ft. house with a big pool and hot tub.

I now have 2 3-ton 16 seers inside and out at about 2,500 sq. ft. and all new duct work.

I already see the difference in the bills and comfort.

Our AC guy is now trying to fix an issue we have where we can't seem to get the temp in the new room addition and our master BR to both be comfortable.

He'll take care of it here soon.

Huzzah!

I just wanted to say Huzzah. By Gum, It's been a while.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

Re: got my smart meter today

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:31:21 EDT

jchambers28 posted : what are you running a steel mill?

Re: got my smart meter today

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:28:39 EDT

jchambers28 posted : next week does not look any better either.

Re: got my smart meter today

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:23:13 EDT

jchambers28 posted : is it normal for AC to run this long?

Re: got my smart meter today

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:09:28 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted : Those 100+ degrees really are hard to handle. So far we are hovering a little under 100 here. My June 15 to July 17 usage was 33 kW/day.

Re: got my smart meter today

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:50:48 EDT

jchambers28 posted : AC has been running since 3PM and has not shut off once it's 108F here.

Re: got my smart meter today

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:37:19 EDT

seaquake posted : Ouch. If we'd have been charged as expected I think we'd have had a $500+ bill. We have a pool running 12 hours a day, a heatwave that hasn't allowed us to turn off the A/C, and my niece visiting for 2+ weeks.

*dread*

Re: got my smart meter today

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:37:09 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by 49528867:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Nope....meter reader does not have to come on to my property now. They drive by in a truck remotely reading all monthly usage by myself and my neighbors.

They won't be doing that too much longer, Dominion just announced they will be deploying a wide scale wireless network to operate their AMI/AMR system over allowing them to read monitor and control their smart meters on a real time basis.

Wayne

There is nothing mentioned on the Dominion site other than the few experimental meters installed a couple of years ago in select locations and several new test locations. Smart meters were installed in portions of Midlothian, Charlottesville and Northern Virginia in 2009 and 2010 as part of the company's smart meter demonstration.. Charlottesville, Midlothian etc. Dominion Virginia Power will continue the company’s multi-phased evaluation and ongoing testing of smart meters by expanding to portions of Williamsburg, downtown Richmond and Blue Ridge.

Additionally they have not received authorization from the SCC to deploy the smart meters other than the experimental areas. Given the the SCC is basically a political arm controlled by elected politicians from what I've seen over the years they aren't going to stir up the voters by allowing this excessive and punitive pricing method. They like being re-elected and I've seen them put the clamps on Dominion many times over the years. Dominion's earnings and pricing are tightly controlled. In our case the people have a lot of ability to influence electric rates as opposed to some other states where the POCO's basically can charge what they want.

Re: got my smart meter today

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:08:42 EDT

workablob posted :

said by seaquake:

We got our smart meter a month and a half ago. Last bill energy usage: "Estimated". Uhm, yeah, estimated by at least 40% less than what we used this time last year...when it wasn't as hot.

Expecting a whopper of a bill next month....and no way to prove what the old meter was at when they replaced it.

This should cheer you up. After IKE we were getting estimated billing for a few months then....

Dave

The second image was a normal month usage in the summer before we got new HVAC systems and ductwork, reflective shingles, windows, radiant barrier etc...

Re: got my smart meter today

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 06:56:01 EDT

49528867 posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

Nope....meter reader does not have to come on to my property now. They drive by in a truck remotely reading all monthly usage by myself and my neighbors.

Re: got my smart meter today

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 00:58:49 EDT

jchambers28 posted : I set it up a few days ago it's pretty cool.

Re: got my smart meter today

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:25:25 EDT

workablob posted : I apologize if thcis has been posted already.

You can sign up and monitor your usage online:

»www.oge.com/residential-customer···wer.aspx

I do this in Texas and it is pretty cool.

Dave

Re: got my smart meter today

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:26:40 EDT

seaquake posted : We got our smart meter a month and a half ago. Last bill energy usage: "Estimated". Uhm, yeah, estimated by at least 40% less than what we used this time last year...when it wasn't as hot.

Expecting a whopper of a bill next month....and no way to prove what the old meter was at when they replaced it.

Re: got my smart meter today

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:30:54 EDT

garys_2k posted : Nationally your situation is unusual, agreed that in VA it's likely not.

Re: got my smart meter today

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:59:02 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by garys_2k:

Yeah, after I posted that I thought I should've added "Except Jack" ;)

Your case is quite unusual, I'm speaking to the 90% that otherwise would have meter readers. You can remain smug.

My case is not unusual. I just live in a state that has a progressive POCO. Dominion Virginia Power reads virtually all residential meters remotely. No need for having to access the property.

Re: got my smart meter today

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:56:21 EDT

garys_2k posted : Yeah, after I posted that I thought I should've added "Except Jack" ;)

Your case is quite unusual, I'm speaking to the 90% that otherwise would have meter readers. You can remain smug.

Re: got my smart meter today

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:54:39 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by garys_2k:

To keep the snooping meter readers from walking onto your property.

Nope....meter reader does not have to come on to my property now. They drive by in a truck remotely reading all monthly usage by myself and my neighbors.

Re: got my smart meter today

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:32:15 EDT

garys_2k posted : To keep the snooping meter readers from walking onto your property.

Edit to add:

Once on the property who's to say that they aren't looking into windows, secretly taking pictures, writing down what they see, noting whether you've cleaned up the dog crap from your lawn? Big brother, yessiree, those snoops claiming they have the right to just walk onto YOUR property to supposedly read some data from meter dials!

Re: got my smart meter today

Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:58:01 EDT

tiger_scout posted : Why would I want a snooping device installed on my house?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JNFr_j6···embedded

Re: got my smart meter today

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:53:07 EDT

scross posted :

said by ArgMeMatey:

said by Jack_in_VA:

That's true for those who absolutely have to know every detail of their usage. I believe there is only really one meaningful data point. The one the POCO uses for my bill.

I have beliefs but when they are contradicted by data, I can change what I think, or I can say, "My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts."

In other words, if every appliance, light switch, and other electrical device had a digital display counting up the amount that thing was costing every second it was on, wouldn't you be more likely to turn it off?

I know I would. Measuring things often causes behavior to change.

For example, I have no trouble spending thousands a month on this and that. I don't carry credit card balances. But if I had to shell out thousands in cash every month instead of using plastic and bank transfers, I am certain I would spend less. So why don't I do that? I don't want to get thousands in cash from the bank and carry it around. I give up some knowledge of my spending patterns for the added security of shifting risk to the credit card company. I choose to be somewhat ignorant, because I know I could put it all in some money program that would tell me what I'm spending in certain categories.

Likewise, if I value the comfort my heating or cooling are currently providing, I might find it tiresome to be constantly reminded that it is costing me money. Why would I want that? Only if I considered my comfort a commodity with a value that could be put in terms of dollars and cents, or at least BTUs and kWh. We all have different things that are important. Some people like sweaters in the winter and some like to run around the house in bare feet and underwear.

Along those same lines, 20 cents an hour doesn't sound like much; even five dollars a day doesn't sound like much. But $150 a month does sound like quite a bit, and knowing this plus knowing that it is much higher than my neighbors' average costs, I'm now highly motivated to get that 20 cents an hour figure reduced significantly!

Re: got my smart meter today

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:47:43 EDT

scross posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by scross:

said by Jack_in_VA:

How To Read Power Usage From a Digital Power Meter

Data you can believe

Yes, but then that kind of defeats the whole purpose of having a portable In-Home Display in the first place, now doesn't it? Not to mention the fact that basic power usage data is just one of the many features that it is supposed to have!

That's true for those who absolutely have to know every detail of their usage. I believe there is only really one meaningful data point. The one the POCO uses for my bill.

I ran my own manual tests yesterday on normal load, heat pump load and Water Heater Load. The Heat Pump and Water Heater represents the real high cost usage. I'm already operating both the way my wife and I want so there's not going to be any changes. The other small loads less than 1kW really are of little consequence to me. Yesterday my normal load was 0.7kW or about 7 cents/hr.

»Re: got my smart meter today

Well, don't forget that in my case this is a trial, and I am a tester, so I am going to be very cognizant of how the unit behaves or misbehaves. Yesterday I say my usage peak at around 16.5, which seems reasonable given that at the time the dryer was running, the washer was running (hot water), and the AC was running. One of the issues that I've run into is that the unit only updates its display every five minutes, which is a bit slow for monitoring what might be intermittent resistive loads, but does help explain why I thought I couldn't really trust it. It would be far better if it updated in something like near real-time, or at least had a much shorter update cycle, like maybe one minute. It also doesn't help that my Smart Meter itself could also display this usage, but for some reason they've chosen not to activate that feature.

But if the 2 Kw figure for an ongoing load is accurate, then that translates into something like an average of 20 cents an hour, or about five dollars a day - $150 a month - which would go a long way towards explaining my high electrical bills. The apparent good news is that my new AC system appears to be only costing me about 30 cents an hour (if that), while my old one probably cost more like 50 cents an hour. But if most of my bill cost is being generated elsewhere, anyway, then I may not have too much reason to celebrate right now.

Re: got my smart meter today

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:42:22 EDT

ArgMeMatey posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

That's true for those who absolutely have to know every detail of their usage. I believe there is only really one meaningful data point. The one the POCO uses for my bill.

Re: got my smart meter today

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:52:35 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by scross:

said by Jack_in_VA:

How To Read Power Usage From a Digital Power Meter

Data you can believe

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 16:56:36 EDT

scross posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

How To Read Power Usage From a Digital Power Meter

Data you can believe

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 14:58:35 EDT

leibold posted :

said by patcat88:

said by leibold:

Since account type is one of the comparison factors there will never be a mix between residential and commercial customers.

How about an apartment building with electric resistive PTAC heat and 1960s construction that is individually metered?

There are two reasons why those would not be mixed together in average consumption comparison. The first is that a multi-unit dwellings (without individual metering) have a different account type from individually metered and directly billed apartments. In addition a baseline modifier is applied to the electric rates depending on whether the customer receives gas and electric (code B) or all-electric without gas (code H). There is no baseline modifier for the gas consumption since all-electric customers don't use any gas.

My utility bill shows:

Electric Rate: E1 XB
Gas Rate: G1 X

Where E1 and G1 are the standard electric/gas rate for single family residential customers. B is the baseline modifier for Gas & Electric customers and X is the baseline modifier for the climate zone (assumes moderate temperatures in summer and winter and therefore not much allowance for heating and cooling).

Edit: Some details here
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Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 12:40:30 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted : How To Read Power Usage From a Digital Power Meter

Data you can believe

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 12:07:33 EDT

scross posted :

said by scooper:

I have a TED 5000, and it shows my house having a steady draw of about 1 KW . heat pump brings it up to 5.5 KW, pool pump brings base up to 2.something, electric tank WH pulls 4.5 KW. So yes - all those "little loads" DO add up. a 2KW steady draw seems a bit high if the A/C is off.

Things are looking quite a bit better today. I've turned off the TV (constant use) and the small window AC unit upstairs (intermittent use), and now the meter is hovering at 1 KW or less. But it stayed this way even after I fired up my dryer (it did rise just a touch), which is unexpected behavior, so at this point I don't have any real reason to believe these numbers. Which is sad because these are the only numbers that are "working" right now; everything else is still zero, but I was told that different things might magically start working over the next few days or weeks. Except maybe for the cost figures, which even the printed documentation says can't really be trusted. Some other things don't appear to work, either (the automatic screen dimming function, for example), but at this point I am not at all surprised by this.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 11:55:08 EDT

scross posted :

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by scross:

On a semi-related note (and since I don't remember it being mentioned already, but I'm too lazy to go back and check), what's everybody's take on the following? I can see both sides of the story, maybe, but the utility is passing this off as related to something that keeps them from suffering too much financially as their customers are encouraged to cut down on electricity use.

»www.wusa9.com/news/article/21230···justment

»www.pepco.com/home/choice/dc/bsa···aqs.aspx

quote:
Officials in the District and Virginia say the utilities can not charge customers for lost billings there - so this is unique to Maryland customers.

This is exactly why citizens demand their state have an effective regulatory agency keeping actions by POCO's like this under control. Our Virginia State Corporation Commission has been excellent in this regard over the years.

I'm going to have to keep an eye on this. As unlikely as it seems, it may be that what they're doing here is quite reasonable (separating out fixed costs vs. variable costs), and it might be even be favorable to their customer base overall in the long term. Plus, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that the reporter really DOESN'T understand what's going on here (as the article implies), and so maybe is needlessly stirring up trouble. This is something that I have witnessed before myself, firsthand, and the only way to really nip it in the bud is just to stop talking to them, which is what most people end up doing.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 10:55:02 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by scooper:

July 15 10:30 am

Normal: 0.697 kW = $0.073/hr

w/heat pump AC: 2.08 kW = $0.22/hr

AC (2.08 - .696 = 1.37 kW x 0.105 = $0.14/hr)

w/water heater no AC: 5.08 kW = $0.53/hr

WH (5.08 - .697 = 4.4 kW x 0.105 = $0.46/hr)

Don't need a Smart Meter to determine usage and cost. It can be determined very easily by just reading the meter.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 09:21:20 EDT

patcat88 posted :

said by leibold:

Since account type is one of the comparison factors there will never be a mix between residential and commercial customers.

How about an apartment building with electric resistive PTAC heat and 1960s construction that is individually metered?

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:06:05 EDT

scooper posted : I have a TED 5000, and it shows my house having a steady draw of about 1 KW . heat pump brings it up to 5.5 KW, pool pump brings base up to 2.something, electric tank WH pulls 4.5 KW. So yes - all those "little loads" DO add up. a 2KW steady draw seems a bit high if the A/C is off.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 08:01:20 EDT

Jack_in_VA posted :

said by scross:

quote:
Officials in the District and Virginia say the utilities can not charge customers for lost billings there - so this is unique to Maryland customers.

Re: got my smart meter today

Sun, 15 Jul 2012 00:56:22 EDT

jig posted : a pc is minimum about 50W, sometimes closer to 100. tv can be a bit more. some lighting can be very lossy - you could be up to 100W/light. phantom power for a household (wireless phones, phone chargers, etc) can be a lot larger than people think, but lets say less than 200W. hopefully your fridge isn't on all the time (some new ones are so quiet that it's hard to tell).

2kw is a bit high, as you say, to not be able to track down. especially if you have an lcd tc (plasma can get as high as 500W, probably closer to 200), but it all adds up. i'll be interested in what you find is the culprit. could be you have some outdoor lighting that's on all the time?
--
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Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 14 Jul 2012 23:46:03 EDT

scross posted : My utility's on-line tools have always shown me as having a much higher electricity usage rate than comparable neighbors, and now I may know why! My new, handy-dandy In-Home Display is consistently showing a steady usage rate of about 2 kilowatts, which jumps up closer to 5.5 kilowatts while the AC is running. Now, this number may or may not be trustworthy, but if it's true then I'm hard-pressed to see how it can be possible, given that I haven't had much going on today - no laundry, no dishwasher, no showering, nada. Just one TV and assorted electronics (PCs and such), plus some lights and so on. So either this display is wrong (not that I would be surprised), or these "small" loads really add up quickly, or perhaps I have a wiring or other problem that I need to track down. It looks like I may be spending part of tomorrow playing with the breakers one by one, to see how that changes the rate.

On a semi-related note (and since I don't remember it being mentioned already, but I'm too lazy to go back and check), what's everybody's take on the following? I can see both sides of the story, maybe, but the utility is passing this off as related to something that keeps them from suffering too much financially as their customers are encouraged to cut down on electricity use.

»www.wusa9.com/news/article/21230···justment

»www.pepco.com/home/choice/dc/bsa···aqs.aspx

Re: got my smart meter today

Sat, 14 Jul 2012 22:08:36 EDT

leibold posted : Our utility provides some details on how they come up with the comparison figure, but the term "neighbors" has to be taken loosely. In our case the service area of the utility is subdivided into climate zones that tend to have the same weather (average temperatures, humidity) and the comparison is done between consumers of the same account type in the same climate zone.
Since account type is one of the comparison factors there will never be a mix between residential and commercial customers.
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