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to twizlar
Re: still WISP or highspeed available in Flamboroughsaid by twizlar:Sorry but voip and skype aren't going to work properly on satellite service.
Actually, they do. They really, actually do. It's much like a cell phone to cell phone conversation. If you were in the same room as the other person you would hear a lag but in practice it's not very noticeable. If latency made voice and video calling impossible as you mention then sat phones and live video links would also be impossible. Is Satellite the same as wireline in terms of latency? No, never will be, but it's very useable and WAY better than it used to be. Have you actually tried the service that you're slagging? |
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said by xnetdealer:said by twizlar:Sorry but voip and skype aren't going to work properly on satellite service.
Actually, they do. They really, actually do. It's much like a cell phone to cell phone conversation. If you were in the same room as the other person you would hear a lag but in practice it's not very noticeable. If latency made voice and video calling impossible as you mention then sat phones and live video links would also be impossible. Is Satellite the same as wireline in terms of latency? No, never will be, but it's very useable and WAY better than it used to be. Have you actually tried the service that you're slagging? My buddy has xplornet, we were talking on skype last night, it works OK. I would hardly brag about it being usable, after all, my friends voice has to go to space and back every time he says something. So it works if we are patient and say a couple words and wait, back and forth. It DOESNT WORK if we start talking in paragraphs or without waiting patiently for the delay.
Internet video is OK, but we certainly couldnt have video chat or any type of live video, its instantly laggy and choppy and none of the voice is even close to lining up.Youtube works, but you need to wait for it to load enough to watch a video. said by xnetdealer:said by Shoot:Xplornet is the last, very last choice. If you can't get online with a tin can and string then yes get xplornet but do yourself a favour and at all cost avoid their service.
Go online and find a positive thing said about them by someone who has had their service. Go ahead look. It will be tough to find. If it exists at all. Have a look at the Xplornet Facebook page. Lot's of love for them there.
»www.facebook.com/Xplornet?ref=ts
The service is greatly improved compared to some of the older networks. Legacy Satellite and older unlicenced wireless (still being used in some areas) have their issues, including the burst/sustain traffic management, congestion, etc. The new 4G Wireless and 4G Satellite are a whole new world. If you can get cable/DSL/FTTN/FTTH, go for it! If you're in an area where it's Xplornet vs. a local wisp vs. cellular, Xplornet is worth considering. Biased? Yes. But I'm also knowledgeable. Sorry, but physically speaking the delay to space and back is going to be MUCH longer than any wireless service which is antenna to tower ON EARTH. Latency to space can never be improved and is always going to suck. Its a physics problem. 4G satellite is simply a bandwidth improvement, and cannot fix the fundamental flaw of latency to space. |
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Re: your buddy with Xplornet... which Xplornet network is it? It makes a big difference. The old Telesat or Hughes networks are much older and have far less capacity than the new Viasat bird. If he's on one of the old networks, he should upgrade.
Re: Latency... yes of course you're right the distance is a HUGE factor, but it really isn't as noticeable as you might think (except gaming, there you're pretty much screwed in an kind of live action game). But, it's WAY better than the old systems. Older satellite was often over 1 second, new is typically 600-800 ms. They've taken out a lot of the ground based latency.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be defensive, just trying to be helpful, annswer questions, and dispel some myths. |
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 twizlarI dont think so.
Premium Member
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON |
to xnetdealer
said by xnetdealer:said by twizlar:Sorry but voip and skype aren't going to work properly on satellite service.
Actually, they do. They really, actually do. It's much like a cell phone to cell phone conversation. If you were in the same room as the other person you would hear a lag but in practice it's not very noticeable. If latency made voice and video calling impossible as you mention then sat phones and live video links would also be impossible. Is Satellite the same as wireline in terms of latency? No, never will be, but it's very useable and WAY better than it used to be. Have you actually tried the service that you're slagging? Actually it is exactly the same service in terms of the technology used. Viasat 1 still orbits at roughly the same height as the other similar broadband satellite systems and still has theoretical minimum latency of roughly 250ms each way (500ms total + the shitty routing provided by most sat providers). Even at 500ms most realtime applications including voip are going to be total crap. Most sat phones use LEO satellites, not geosynchronous like viasat 1, so no the technology is not the same at all. Realtime video feeds are run on specialized systems not over IP like skype, etc. I've used it multiple times, and it is perfectly fine for things like basic browsing and whatnot, but to say that it is in anyway comparable to land based wireless or wireline service is a complete joke. |
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join:2011-03-29
Riverview, NB |
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Member
2012-Jul-23 12:22 pm
The point at which the average human being begins to notice the delay and try to adjust (be it subconsciously or conciously) is between 160-180ms. Anything above that and the experience is not like what you get from alternate solutions.
That being said VoIP *is* being run over satellite connections around the world. With the knowledge ahead of time that it is going over a satellite connection the experience can be tolerable. You can also reduce bandwidth consumption by trunking calls together to reduce IP overhead.
Sadly it's just what some people have to do... let us feel sad for them and enjoy our much better latency. |
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to twizlar
said by twizlar: Actually it is exactly the same service in terms of the technology used. Viasat 1 still orbits at roughly the same height as the other similar broadband satellite systems and still has theoretical minimum latency of roughly 250ms each way (500ms total + the shitty routing provided by most sat providers). Even at 500ms most realtime applications including voip are going to be total crap.
Most sat phones use LEO satellites, not geosynchronous like viasat 1, so no the technology is not the same at all. Realtime video feeds are run on specialized systems not over IP like skype, etc.
I've used it multiple times, and it is perfectly fine for things like basic browsing and whatnot, but to say that it is in anyway comparable to land based wireless or wireline service is a complete joke.
Correct, theoretical minimum latency hasn't changed. Darn physics. What has changed is the ground based latency cause by caching etc. I'm not saying satellite=ground based. I'm saying the new Xplornet satellite is much better than the old Xplornet satellite, and that because of inconsistent service quality, network congestion and such restrictive data caps on the cellular plans, for many rural homes Xplornet is the better option. |
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scorpido
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02
Abbotsford, BC
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scorpido
Premium Member
2012-Jul-23 5:43 pm
With Xplornet If you have any issues you won't get any help from the dealer who installed the system be it fixed wireless or satellite since they cannot do anything unless a trouble ticket is created first. Current example, I run a wireless internet service and had a customer who was having issues connecting due to some trees so they ended their service with me and went with xplornet satellite service, well everything was great until the 30 day mark then the service went offline and has been offline now for 3 days. They called Northwind in Arthur who is a dealer and they either couldn't or wouldn't do anything for them. Needless to say they are now Bluwest customers again and now have a line of sight since we have a new location setup that they can see no problem. Best suggestion is go with a local wisp who owns their own hardware and maintains their own network because once your installed by a xplornet ****dealer**** they can just wash their hands of you since they already have been paid and all they loose is the petty $2-$3 commission per month plus they can't do anything without a pre approved work order from xplornet (can take days to get). Where if you have a local wisp they can fix you much faster and your also supporting local business and not some government grant hog that has it's head office in Woodstock, New Brunswick, and will go the way of HSFX and Everus, Omniglobe once the government grants dry up. In fact I have taken over 3 xplornet locations that xplornet closed down leaving paying customers high and dry, so I am thinking that the tap is almost run out for Xplornet anyways. Check out www.megawire.ca or www.netflash.ca they might be able to service you. Just look at the pics I took when I was switching someone from Xplornet Satellite the brand new one..lol Still just as crappy. Grade F, |
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said by scorpido:Still just as crappy. Grade F,
And I thought I was biased  Anyway... I don't believe in negative selling, so I won't. I'll just say that of course it makes sense to give the customer service and network folks the opportunity to trouble shoot on the phone before sending a tech out, and that Xplornet has invested/is continuing to invest hundreds of millions of dollars to get service to EVERY Canadian, coast to coast to coast. Local WISPs do good work as well, but their reach is limited and if you live in a valley or don't have LOS you'd be stuck with dial-up if Satellite wasn't an option. Yes, of course an 800ms ping gets an F compared to urban services. But would you rather get 40kbps than 1.98Mbps? Me either. |
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 GuspazGuspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC |
Guspaz
MVM
2012-Jul-24 11:08 am
said by xnetdealer:Xplornet has invested/is continuing to invest hundreds of millions of dollars to get service to EVERY Canadian, coast to coast to coast. Well, that's a waste of money; their fixed wireless service is probably never going to be able to compete with Fibe or DOCSIS 3, so investing money to service somebody in an urban centre is probably a waste. |
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said by Guspaz  ]
Well, that's a waste of money; their fixed wireless service is probably never going to be able to compete with Fibe or DOCSIS 3, so investing money to service somebody in an urban centre is probably a waste.
It's not an investment to serve urban, it's an investment to serve rural and remote. Obviously Satellite is available in urban, you can't cut cities out of the spot beam, but it's clearly not configured/priced to compete with Cable or DSL, never mind Fibre.
Perhaps I wasn't clear. They are investing to reach every unserved or underserved Canadian, coast to coast to coast. |
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Shoot
join:2010-01-31
Castleton, ON |
to xnetdealer
But would you rather get 40kbps than 1.98Mbps? Me either.
Then price this shit according to 1.98Mbps and stop charging people like your service is actually what you advertise because it is not. Just overpriced, overrated, oversold, underwhelming crap. |
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to xnetdealer
said by xnetdealer:Re: your buddy with Xplornet... which Xplornet network is it?
New, just installed a few weeks ago. Like I said before, its a physical latency problem, it takes too long to go to space and back. the bandwidth is less important to me. said by xnetdealer:Yes, of course an 800ms ping gets an F compared to urban services. But would you rather get 40kbps than 1.98Mbps? Me either.
Yes i'd rather have 40kbps 150ms ping than 1.98mbps with 800ms for lots of reasons. Mainly gaming, voip and other time sensitive applications (encrypted streams that wont work if theres too much latency/jitter as the key change is too quick). Speedtest will even give a 100mbps connection an F if the latency is 800ms..... Having said all this, I'd pick a local WISP if one is available, as the ping will likely be similar to dial up ~150-200ms and benefit from the added bandwidth. said by Guspaz:EDIT: there is not much point in doing VoIP over dialup, though. In order to do it, you would need a telephone line anyhow, at which point you might as well just get a cheaper long distance provider, which gets you most of the cost savings that VoIP would anyhow.
Well, if you dont want to disconnect the internet to use your phone line, VoIP can be a good option over dialup.  Sometimes you want to use the internet while someone else is on the phone. |
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