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Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to Cartel

Re: [Info] Windows 8 wants to nickel and dime you to death

So here is the question, what do you think of the Apple or Google stores for example? For one it means small software shops can focus on developing software and don't have to worry about 'selling' as that is handled by the OS vendor, you just get a check from them. There becomes a standards level that has to be met before you app can be listed, which would benefit users (ie reduce the amount of crap software). Frankly I think Microsoft wanted to do this a long time ago but the monopoly thing held them back, but now they can say they are just following what other OS vendors are already doing. As someone who has done a number of software companies of varying sizes, I know Microsoft has the best deal for software vendors of the 3 as for example they scale back the 30% for increased sales so its attractive that way, but so far every store I've seen have come up short in terms of letting vendors put their full weight behind marketing of their products, but I'm curious to see how Microsoft does with this.

Will I be first in line to get a Microsoft surface device, heck ya, do I like Windows 8, yes as it does grow on you once you use it, as its meant for a different user then traditional windows, but then again users have changed since Windows 3.0 busted onto the screen. Users today grew up with computers, which makes a difference when designing an OS like Windows 8.
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool



redxii
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Sherwood, MI
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

This (integrated app stores) is how software (trusted software) will be sold in the future. Same as Apple. Same as Google.
Sorry about your stomach issues, hope you get them resolved.

Will we have to root the OS to regain control of our property, maybe to even install an alternative OS?
--
Moe, I need your advice… See I've got this friend named Joey Joe-Joe... Junior... Shabadoo..

bgraham

join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
reply to Cartel

Just upgraded from XP to Win7. Don't see any great advantages in the upgrade worth $200 and the 3 days to install all my existing software. I still have a couple of quirks with a couple of programs and I have no intentions of going to Win8.

I thought that Windows 7 was named because you get 7 updates a day 7 days a week, although it has been a bit better in the last week or two.

It also is totally ridiculous that Microsoft updates a working nVidia display driver with a version that crashed Photoshop.

I think sadly Microsoft is becoming a marketing company.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Didn't you learn back with Windows 98 to NEVER EVER get a video driver from Microsoft update site! If you have an OEM machine don't get it from them either because it will probably be a stripped down version (Dell does this). Always go to the vendor's website and don't keep updating willy-nilly display drivers...for a year maybe with a new computer and stop as you won't get anything useful after about that time and you increase the likelihood of the update being a bad one for you. After a year, get a new display driver only if you need it for a specific reason.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to CylonRed

said by CylonRed:

Windows 7 works better than XP IMHO after using Win7 since it came out at work and XP at home.

Start button is finally real (ie: Good) and it does everything very well and super stable.

What do you mean the start button is finally "real"? It has never appeared fake to me in 98, 98SE, XP or in Vista where it got screwed up but it was still real. I only had Windows 7 briefly during the public beta (although I will be buying a Windows 7 computer soon...before Oct 26) but the start button was real...it was totally messed up though worse than in Vista and I had to get third party software installed to fix it...but it sure as heck was "real".
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


jbgroup1
Non Conformist
Premium
join:2000-05-04
Dayton, MD
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
reply to Razzy

Everyone seems to be focused on metro. But it's just the start menu at the start of one's session. Some of the time after boot the system goes to the desktop right away. One does not have to leave the desktop ever. I spend about 95% of time on the desktop. I personally like to use the metro apps. I use them almost every session.
--
...as an individual, I have a right to [do] what I think, what I feel, and I think we all have a right to our own destiny as individuals. And I think I have a right to choose mine and everybody else has a right to choose theirs.
»jonestown.sdsu.edu



The Pig
I know you want to be me
Premium
join:2009-09-11
reply to Cartel

So without a start button you have to minimize the screen you are working with to open another link that you have to access on the screen?
Seems like a pain!



btB

@rr.com
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

(although I will be buying a Windows 7 computer soon...before Oct 26) but the start button was real...it was totally messed up though worse than in Vista and I had to get third party software installed to fix it...but it sure as heck was "real".

So you were using a 3rd party Start Menu in Windows 7? If so, then you could probably use the same program in Windows 8.

I use Classic Shell in Windows 7 and it works in Windows 8 as well.

For those who like the Windows Application page but prefer something not full screen within Desktop, there is a Start Menu alternative called Start8.

Both these utilities can be set to take you to desktop when you boot your computer.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to redxii

said by redxii:

said by JohnInSJ:

This (integrated app stores) is how software (trusted software) will be sold in the future. Same as Apple. Same as Google.
Sorry about your stomach issues, hope you get them resolved.

Will we have to root the OS to regain control of our property, maybe to even install an alternative OS?

No, you won't. You *have* root already, since it's not an appliance.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to The Pig

said by The Pig:

So without a start button you have to minimize the screen you are working with to open another link that you have to access on the screen?
Seems like a pain!

What? I have no idea what scenario you're talking about.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

1 edit
reply to CylonRed

said by CylonRed:

said by Razzy:

FYI, time I spent in desktop on Windows 8 = 99%

Time spent on Metro apps on Windows 8 = 1%

I am confused - no idea what you are trying to convey here - no idea at all.

I missed this one - I meant I barely spend my time in Metro side of Windows 8 - that is by choice - I can go there if I want but with Windows 8 tablet/phones coming out, I will start (pun intended!)

I'm always in desktop - everything works exactly the same way as Windows 7 but no start menu but start screen replaced it. The start button is there but it is hidden until you move the mouse to lower left corner. When I want to run a typical Windows software like VirtualBox. I just click start and I have VirtualBox pinned in the start screen. So I just click it. Start Screen disappear back to desktop with VirtualBox loaded.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to The Pig

said by The Pig:

So without a start button you have to minimize the screen you are working with to open another link that you have to access on the screen?
Seems like a pain!

What OS are you talking about? Because it's not Windows 8 you are talking about ;p

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to btB

I "hate" those 3rd party software. They will cause unexplainable crashes no doubt.

As for booting to desktop - I just click Desktop tile on start screen - TADA I'm in desktop ;p I actually prefer to boot to start screen so I can glance all the useful live tiles before I get to work on desktop.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

The problem is that Microsoft thinks everyone actually uses the desktop. I don't. I never go to it. I use Windows Explorer when I need something. The desktop to me is a pretty picture I have with a little program I've run since Windows 95 that hides everything on the desktop so all I see is the pretty picture when I boot. Then, I use Quick Start menu. I hate wasting time on the Desktop! If I want to know the weather, I have a tab open at all times on Fx to the weather service for my town. Why would I want to go to the desktop and ruin my picture by telling Desktop Sweeper to restore all the crappy garbage on it so I can look for a dumb something that will show me the weather? It is much more productive to ignore the desktop as soon as boot is completed and use your tabs in your browser or use Windows Explorer.

Of course, I know Microsoft ruined Explorer in Windows 7, and somewhat in Vista, but then there are third party programs that restore Windows Explorer. It is not my fault there are tons of idiots using Windows these days who can't be bothered to learn how to use it so Microsoft feels compelled to cater to their inability to learn anything. So, I will use a third party program because all these idiots have ruined Windows.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


towerdave

join:2002-01-16
O Fallon, IL

said by Mele20:

It is not my fault there are tons of idiots using Windows these days who can't be bothered to learn how to use it so Microsoft feels compelled to cater to their inability to learn anything.

Wow!! Really? Everyone is supposed to be a computer genius?

Wow.

Oh, and thanks for calling my parents idiots. I'm sure they'd appreciate that.

Why don't we just go back to DOS? Who needs a GUI anyway?

As for a program that hides everything on the desktop, why do you even need that? Since WinXP, you can hide the desktop icons without any 3rd party utilities.

TD


C_Chipperson
Monster Rain
Premium
join:2009-01-17
00000
kudos:3
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

Of course, I know Microsoft ruined Explorer in Windows 7, and somewhat in Vista, but then there are third party programs that restore Windows Explorer. It is not my fault there are tons of idiots using Windows these days who can't be bothered to learn how to use it so Microsoft feels compelled to cater to their inability to learn anything. So, I will use a third party program because all these idiots have ruined Windows.

After actually learning how to use it, the Windows 7 explorer is a vast improvement over XP. In my opinion. But that's just me, after I spent time learning something new. Not sure why you feel so strongly towards other people based on a file explorer preference...

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to Mele20

Windows Vista/7 is definitely much better than XP on Explorer. Windows 8 is even better.

I meant start8/classic shell or whatever shell replacement program that replace explorer.exe as in third party software.



workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Cartel

said by Cartel:

Looks like Windows 8 will be wanting mo' money for everything.
After wanting Windows 7 users to "terminate" sidebar gadgets, now they want you to cough up for aps in the aps store.
Windows 8 makes me wanna puke everytime I see news about it.


quote:
Microsoft's app store for Windows 8 has been on a slow and steady push towards 400 apps recently, despite the fact app publishing is still reserved for a small number of developers right now. After being previewed at a Microsoft event back in December, McAkins online notes that eBay has published its own Metro style app in the Windows Store, bringing the online shopping site to Windows 8 tablets and PCs.

quote:
Windows Store will be integrated into Windows 8. With just a few taps, you will be able to buy touch-friendly, Metro-style applications built for the new OS

They tried to nickel and dime us with Microsoft Flight and that tanked.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

said by workablob:

said by Cartel:

Looks like Windows 8 will be wanting mo' money for everything.
After wanting Windows 7 users to "terminate" sidebar gadgets, now they want you to cough up for aps in the aps store.
Windows 8 makes me wanna puke everytime I see news about it.


quote:
Microsoft's app store for Windows 8 has been on a slow and steady push towards 400 apps recently, despite the fact app publishing is still reserved for a small number of developers right now. After being previewed at a Microsoft event back in December, McAkins online notes that eBay has published its own Metro style app in the Windows Store, bringing the online shopping site to Windows 8 tablets and PCs.

quote:
Windows Store will be integrated into Windows 8. With just a few taps, you will be able to buy touch-friendly, Metro-style applications built for the new OS

They tried to nickel and dime us with Microsoft Flight and that tanked.

Dave

Uh.. Microsoft Flight has been going on for 25 years... I wouldn't call it "tanked"... LOL ;p

towerdave

join:2002-01-16
O Fallon, IL

said by Razzy:

Uh.. Microsoft Flight has been going on for 25 years... I wouldn't call it "tanked"... LOL ;p

»www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407672,00.asp

Microsoft just stopped development on Microsoft Flight. It's dead, again.

TD

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

said by towerdave:

said by Razzy:

Uh.. Microsoft Flight has been going on for 25 years... I wouldn't call it "tanked"... LOL ;p

»www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407672,00.asp

Microsoft just stopped development on Microsoft Flight. It's dead, again.

TD

Yep I realized that =) But what I meant to say. It started 25 years ago. Two and half decade ago. Having said that, it's not even close to be.... "tanked". Market changes, things changes.


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Razzy

said by Razzy:

Uh.. Microsoft Flight has been going on for 25 years... I wouldn't call it "tanked"... LOL ;p

Uh, Actually it has only been going on since early this year and barely lasted a few months before they fired the staff and discontinued development of any new content.

I think you are mistaking Microsoft Flight Simulator with Microsoft Flight.

Two very different business models.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

Oh I wasn't even aware of the difference......

Both are the same game.... Boring games that was once cool back then.



workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Razzy:

Oh I wasn't even aware of the difference......

Both are the same game.... Boring games that was once cool back then.

Games are very similar in the graphics and flight dynamics (IE Flight Dynamics read from a database).

The big difference is that with MSFS you paid once and got the world and all the planes and airports included.

MSF gives you an island in Hawaii (the big island) and then you were expected to pay to add additional areas which had yet to be created and never will be.

Nickel and Dime strategy.

I downloaded it and checked it out since it is free but as soon as I realized MS' plans to make money off of every new scenery area I dropped it.

I still fly MSFS 1995 through MSFS X quite a lot.

IMHO if MSFS could have ever been considered cool it is cooler than ever as of version X.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

I could have sworn there's pay add-on packs for Microsoft Flight Sim back then.


Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to workablob

»www.fspilotshop.com/index.php?cPath=2_70

Yep they've been nickling and diming for a long time ;p



workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

Not even close.

Stock MSFS has everything Microsoft has to offer in the way of Airports and planes.

MSF has only one tiny scenery area.

Third party add-ons don't count since that is not Microsoft selling it.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Mele20

Windows 8 won't stop you from doing that either. Sounds to me like you'd barely notice the difference.

I do something similar with Q-Dir actually, which is far superior to any version of Windows Explorer. You should try it.
--
Think Outside the Fox.


Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC

1 recommendation

reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

This (integrated app stores) is how software (trusted software) will be sold in the future. Same as Apple. Same as Google.

Yeah, this is going to make my life soooo much easier. It should be breeze. I'll just put our chemical engineering process simulation software on metro and then sit back while $15,000 per license rolls in. Piece of cake. Thanks for making our lives (in the business world) so much easier, MS!

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to sivran

That Q-Dir looks nice! Thanks! I'll try it when I get a new machine with Win 7. Maybe I'll try it on a virtual machine running XP Pro just to see what it is like as Explorer in XP is fine...but it doesn't have 4 panes which looks useful. But I want XP like start on Win 7. I can't remember the name of programs half the time so how could I type in the Start search box on Win 7 to start a program when I can't remember its name? (Of course, I remember a program I use constantly...but I will go blank on others). If I have XP style Start/Programs then I can look at the columns and I will recognize the one I want. Classic Shell will give me that on Win 7 but it also has enhancements to Explorer to make it more like XP Explorer. It might conflict with this Q-Dir.

I wish I could have done a Win 8 beta to see for myself what I think of it. I don't want to be buying programs from Microsoft store though. I don't want Microsoft having that sort of control. I would never use their AV either for this reason (and lack of configurability). Any computer I buy between now and Oct 26 will have upgrade to Win 8 at $15 if I were to decide I would want it (which is very unlikely but possible I suppose). Waiting to buy a computer until that close to Christmas is a big mistake because the OEMs get sloppy around then because of all the orders. You want to avoid buying at that time of the year.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson