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Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to towerdave

Re: [Info] Windows 8 wants to nickel and dime you to death

said by towerdave:

said by Razzy:

Uh.. Microsoft Flight has been going on for 25 years... I wouldn't call it "tanked"... LOL ;p

»www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407672,00.asp

Microsoft just stopped development on Microsoft Flight. It's dead, again.

TD

Yep I realized that =) But what I meant to say. It started 25 years ago. Two and half decade ago. Having said that, it's not even close to be.... "tanked". Market changes, things changes.


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Razzy

said by Razzy:

Uh.. Microsoft Flight has been going on for 25 years... I wouldn't call it "tanked"... LOL ;p

Uh, Actually it has only been going on since early this year and barely lasted a few months before they fired the staff and discontinued development of any new content.

I think you are mistaking Microsoft Flight Simulator with Microsoft Flight.

Two very different business models.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

Oh I wasn't even aware of the difference......

Both are the same game.... Boring games that was once cool back then.



workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Razzy:

Oh I wasn't even aware of the difference......

Both are the same game.... Boring games that was once cool back then.

Games are very similar in the graphics and flight dynamics (IE Flight Dynamics read from a database).

The big difference is that with MSFS you paid once and got the world and all the planes and airports included.

MSF gives you an island in Hawaii (the big island) and then you were expected to pay to add additional areas which had yet to be created and never will be.

Nickel and Dime strategy.

I downloaded it and checked it out since it is free but as soon as I realized MS' plans to make money off of every new scenery area I dropped it.

I still fly MSFS 1995 through MSFS X quite a lot.

IMHO if MSFS could have ever been considered cool it is cooler than ever as of version X.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

I could have sworn there's pay add-on packs for Microsoft Flight Sim back then.


Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to workablob

»www.fspilotshop.com/index.php?cPath=2_70

Yep they've been nickling and diming for a long time ;p



workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast

Not even close.

Stock MSFS has everything Microsoft has to offer in the way of Airports and planes.

MSF has only one tiny scenery area.

Third party add-ons don't count since that is not Microsoft selling it.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Mele20

Windows 8 won't stop you from doing that either. Sounds to me like you'd barely notice the difference.

I do something similar with Q-Dir actually, which is far superior to any version of Windows Explorer. You should try it.
--
Think Outside the Fox.


Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC

1 recommendation

reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

This (integrated app stores) is how software (trusted software) will be sold in the future. Same as Apple. Same as Google.

Yeah, this is going to make my life soooo much easier. It should be breeze. I'll just put our chemical engineering process simulation software on metro and then sit back while $15,000 per license rolls in. Piece of cake. Thanks for making our lives (in the business world) so much easier, MS!

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4
reply to sivran

That Q-Dir looks nice! Thanks! I'll try it when I get a new machine with Win 7. Maybe I'll try it on a virtual machine running XP Pro just to see what it is like as Explorer in XP is fine...but it doesn't have 4 panes which looks useful. But I want XP like start on Win 7. I can't remember the name of programs half the time so how could I type in the Start search box on Win 7 to start a program when I can't remember its name? (Of course, I remember a program I use constantly...but I will go blank on others). If I have XP style Start/Programs then I can look at the columns and I will recognize the one I want. Classic Shell will give me that on Win 7 but it also has enhancements to Explorer to make it more like XP Explorer. It might conflict with this Q-Dir.

I wish I could have done a Win 8 beta to see for myself what I think of it. I don't want to be buying programs from Microsoft store though. I don't want Microsoft having that sort of control. I would never use their AV either for this reason (and lack of configurability). Any computer I buy between now and Oct 26 will have upgrade to Win 8 at $15 if I were to decide I would want it (which is very unlikely but possible I suppose). Waiting to buy a computer until that close to Christmas is a big mistake because the OEMs get sloppy around then because of all the orders. You want to avoid buying at that time of the year.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


computerman2
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Rockwood, MI
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·AT&T Midwest

1 edit

Thinking gonna buy Windows 8 for $15 if i qualify, got this PC on June 16th 2012, had to exchange the original machine though, which was bought on May 31st, so if it goes by the original purchase date, guess spending $40.00 to get Windows 8 on this PC, NEW HP Quad Core A6-3620, 8gb ddr3 ram, and 1tb hard drive

Overall liking the Speed of the PC very much, Don't even Notice Norton Antivirus 2012 on this PC at all, nice and fast compared to my old PC



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Mele20

Be sure to explore the menus and buttons in Q-Dir. It is highly configurable, much like Opera.

In Windows 8 I have noticed Q-Dir seems to forget which column to sort files by sometimes. I'm not sure if this is new or if it does this in 7 also. The developer is constantly releasing updates so it's likely to be quickly fixed anyway.
--
Think Outside the Fox.



Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

1 recommendation

reply to towerdave

Oh boy, it's another 'Microsoft has made a store, ITS THE END OF THE WORLD' threads.

Take a deep breathe and step away from the pc... Just because Microsoft is making a store doesn't mean you can't download anything or add programs



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
reply to Glen T

said by Glen T:

said by JohnInSJ:

This (integrated app stores) is how software (trusted software) will be sold in the future. Same as Apple. Same as Google.

Yeah, this is going to make my life soooo much easier. It should be breeze. I'll just put our chemical engineering process simulation software on metro and then sit back while $15,000 per license rolls in. Piece of cake. Thanks for making our lives (in the business world) so much easier, MS!

It's a consumer play. Your IT department will continue to have full control of your corporate desktops.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Glen T

join:2003-11-03
BC

said by JohnInSJ:

It's a consumer play. Your IT department will continue to have full control of your corporate desktops.

I hope that is the case. My point is similar to what others have stated, which is, if there is nothing in Win8 for the corporate world, and if it in fact requires extra fiddling to set up and extra mouse clicks to do what we do now on an ongoing basis, then there is no incentive at all for us or our clients to upgrade. Because Win8 is not for the corporate user. That being the case, then the corporate world (and our clients) will likely bypass Win8 just like they bypassed Vista. I would say that the majority of our clients are still running XP and just now moving to Win7.

I am particularly concerned about comments that the metro interface gets in the way of having multiple screens and multiple windows open on the desktop. Typical workflow for me, requires half a dozen windows open simultaneously, often with four or more windows visible at the same time on two monitors. Hopefully, early reports of this are restricted to Metro and the desktop will function as it does in Win7, and MS is smart enough to make the desktop the default setup on Win8 Pro.

At this point, my only concern will be new PCs that we might buy in the next 18 months. If MS engineers the rollout of Win8 like they did with previous releases, then they will require OEMs and retailers to pull Win7 machines off shelves and out of circulation immediately when Win8 is released, forcing purchasers to buy the new OS. So we may need to buy what we need now.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

Metro does not get in your way when you're actively using desktop with multiple win32 applications.. only time it gets in your way is when you accidently hit WIN key.



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Glen T

I've found that in general, Win 8 requires less clicks than 7 or XP.



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
reply to Glen T

said by Glen T:

said by JohnInSJ:

It's a consumer play. Your IT department will continue to have full control of your corporate desktops.

I hope that is the case. My point is similar to what others have stated, which is, if there is nothing in Win8 for the corporate world, and if it in fact requires extra fiddling to set up and extra mouse clicks to do what we do now on an ongoing basis, then there is no incentive at all for us or our clients to upgrade.

Most analysts (ok, only Mary Jo Foley - »www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/ , but she's the expert) expect most large corporate customers, who in their normal upgrade cycles are only just now getting around to deploying Win7, to "naturally" skip the first Win8 release simply because they'll not be ready for the next upgrade cycle until the next Win (whatever version) release anyway - and by that time any serious manageability issues would have been addressed from the initial Win8 release.

That aside, Metro does nothing to multiple monitor use - you're not using Metro apps for anything like that at all.

For new Hardware, you'd be deploying your normal corporate image anyway. When I was at HP (oh, the pain) that was XP well into the Win7 rollout.

You'll likely see Win7 "downgrades" offered esp. on Business class hardware. On consumer stuff it will be all Win8 for sure.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
reply to bgraham

What's ridiculous is you letting it, it's an option, not a critical update.



Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
reply to Mele20



Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
reply to towerdave

I wouldn't bother with her, it's a common theme with her that everyone else is the problem yet she claims to know so much yet has so many problems.



Michail
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1
reply to Cartel

I'd say if a developer wants to spend time to make an app they should be able to sell it on the app store for money (or give it away for free if desired). Metroland may be a good untapped market for developers.



CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to Mele20

I defined 'real' already - it takes the XP menu and finally does what it should have in XP. Since XP, I have only used the Classic menu and Win7 finally got it right.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4

Yes, you said that "real" means "good". That tells me absolutely nothing except your very vague, subjective opinion that "start" button is "good" in Win 7.

Pardon me but whoopee do...I really feel enlightened now.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4
reply to Cartel

What about Windows Media Center in Windows 8? I read that if you upgrade for $49 there is way to get it free but what about the $15 upgrades offered by OEMs? What about if you actually buy a computer that comes with Windows 8? Is Media Center included or do you have to purchase it separately?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA

Its unclear, but likely free. Media Center is end of life anyway.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4

End of life? NO! It is beefed up and improved for Windows 8. It is not end of life. But Microsoft is charging for it for Windows 8 and it is not clear who can get it free and who is going to have to pay and how much Microsoft will be charging is not clear either.

I asked because it is a big deal to me. NO WAY would I want Windows 8 without Media Center! But if I am going to have to pay a lot for it then I want to know so I can hopefully order a new computer with Windows 7 before Microsoft releases Windows 8 and the OEMs start putting it on all machines.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



MSeng
Premium,Ex-Mod 2001-08
join:2000-07-13
Ork
kudos:6

Have you read Sinofsky's blog post on WMC in Windows 8 yet? Perhaps it will answer some of your questions.

FAQ - DVD playback and Windows Media Center in Windows 8
--
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with large hammer.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4

Thanks! I recall reading the first part of that blog post in the past but I didn't recall the latter part of his post and I never saw all those comments until now either. I'm not particularly interested in DVD playback but in the TV aspects of Windows Media Center.

I'm planning on getting this »cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-4-pcie/ and a cable card and tuning adapter from my ISP/cable company. I detest set top boxes (can't use my Samsung clicker with one) and the fact that I would be forced to rent one at every increasing prices from my cable company. Infinitv is a great solution but it requires Windows 7 Media Center.

I think Sinofsky is wrong to say everyone is moving to streaming via Netflix, Amazon, Youtube and/or Hulu Plus. My ISP is already AGAIN trying to force bandwidth limits on us which would severely impact streaming if they are successful (huge outcry from last attempt didn't deter them from trying again now). Then there are many of us who can't afford 50/5 tier in order to be able to stream without constant buffering. I upgraded my standard tier a week ago to solve this problem (not to anything like 50/5 though) but I see no improvement. I think something like Infinitv is the better answer.

If Windows Media Center in Windows 8 will have no improvements (no support for Blueray when many are getting Blueray optical disk on new computers) then I see no reason to get Windows 8.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

As I recall, there was word that Microsoft disbanded the eHome group quite some time ago. Therefore there was never reason to suspect that there would be any improvements in the Windows 8 version of Media Center. In fact this is why many suspected that Media Center would be omitted altogether.

said by Mele20:



If Windows Media Center in Windows 8 will have no improvements (no support for Blueray when many are getting Blueray optical disk on new computers) then I see no reason to get Windows 8.

Your echoing what many people have said with or without Media Center bing a metric.