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perturbed

@telus.net

30 Day notice? Corrupt Practices.

SHAW

I dont understand how companies like yours are getting away with this horse manure. If im not in a contract, how do you get off doing this. If I want to cancel for any reason and not in a contact, I should be able to do so. And another thing. How can I be held to some stupid TOS that I have never acknowledged, Especially when they up and change it. When its changed and you have not acknowledged the change in some form. You should DEFINITELY be of the hook. Your a prisoner to these companies.

Maybe its time to start a petition and contact my MLA and get to the bottom of this horse manure. These companies take advantage of there customers by DOING WHAT EVER THEY DAM WELL PLEASE! Im tired of it!!!!! aaahhhh!!

Corrupt Practices. It Must Be Stopped!

lostspaceman

join:2012-07-26
T3N0K7
Reviews:
·Shaw
Have you never cancelled services from a Telco before? I have never heard of a Telco/communications company not requiring 30 days notice. I have cancelled services from both Shaw and Telus, and would choose Shaw again for many reasons. When I cancelled Shaw,they cut me a rebate check for $70 plus, when I cancelled Telus I got a charged a $200 cancellation fee...


ItsNormal

@shawcable.net
reply to perturbed
You are on a contract. You're on a month to month contract.
Just like rent at an apartment, if you cancel you still owe for 30 days worth of service. These things are standard not only in ISP contracts, but in most places as well.
Month to month = 30 days notice. It's standard.


perturbed

@telus.net
said by ItsNormal :

You are on a contract. You're on a month to month contract.
Just like rent at an apartment, if you cancel you still owe for 30 days worth of service. These things are standard not only in ISP contracts, but in most places as well.
Month to month = 30 days notice. It's standard.

Contract? What contract? Please enlighten me. Is there a special law? What about the TOS. How does that work?


perturbed

@telus.net
reply to lostspaceman
I never said only shaw, I just happen to "by surprise" notice it on the shaw bill. I wish I dint have to spend Thousands of dollars on contracts with my customers and be able to change at a whim. My business may be different but an acknowledgement is an acknowledgement . Heck restaurant owners should put a TOS by there door. That way when there customers leave, they can charge them a vagrancy fee when they leave. And all the owner has to do is point at the TOS at the door. LOL

Dosent someone see the ironic logic.

lostspaceman

join:2012-07-26
T3N0K7
Reviews:
·Shaw
I don't see how you can directly compare a utility provider to a restaurant... I'm sorry, but I really don't think it's outrageous for 30 days notice on cancellation for a utility. If you think it's going to be better (cancellation wise) with another provider, you're going to be very disappointed.


perturbed

@telus.net
said by lostspaceman:

I don't see how you can directly compare a utility provider to a restaurant... I'm sorry, but I really don't think it's outrageous for 30 days notice on cancellation for a utility. If you think it's going to be better (cancellation wise) with another provider, you're going to be very disappointed.

Again, I never said just Shaw, I discovered it by accident on the shaw bill. And yes, a restaurant and a "communication provider" are different. So whats to stop the restaurant owner from doing so? And what gives a a "communication provider" the authority to do so? I wonder if the electric company would charge me a cancellation fee. What a Minute, I would never cancel my electricity, I wouldnt be able to post. LoL

you know I dont even know if telus does it to. But what do I know, Im just there customer too.

lostspaceman

join:2012-07-26
T3N0K7
Reviews:
·Shaw
Your electricity company would most certainly charge a cancellation fee or require 30 days notice (the point is moot if you're in a province that has government run hydro though, here in Alberta is a different story). There's nothing stopping a restaurant owner from charging a similar fee, except that nobody would eat at that restaurant anymore. It's the same reason I don't tip 15% to the cashier @ Walmart.


perturbed

@telus.net
said by lostspaceman:

Your electricity company would most certainly charge a cancellation fee or require 30 days notice (the point is moot if you're in a province that has government run hydro though, here in Alberta is a different story). There's nothing stopping a restaurant owner from charging a similar fee, except that nobody would eat at that restaurant anymore. It's the same reason I don't tip 15% to the cashier @ Walmart.

Interesting, apparently there is no law according to you. Like the landlords and tenants pointed out. I guess Im dumb for spending money on expensive contracts. I should Just post a TOS that gives me the right to do what ever when ever.

Somethings not right.

But what if you are CHARGED the tip? Do you still not pay? You dont have a choice do you. I guess its an easy question, ether there is a "law/rule" or isn't!

Maybe the board of directors will know the answer? I would hope so! LoL

lostspaceman

join:2012-07-26
T3N0K7
No law?? I don't remember saying that. At any rate good luck with whatever it is you intend to do, I hope whoever you switched to makes you happier.


ItsNormal

@shawcable.net
reply to perturbed
You don't need a signature to have a contract.
The seller agrees to sell and the buyer agrees to buy, on a month to month basis, which in turn means you have to tell them at the end of one billing cycle and they cancel at the end of that cycle.

If you work on contracts in your daily job, you should really know this. The fact that you paid them in effect means that you agree to the terms.
This is the reason Shaw normally charges two months up front, because of people who think like you.

If you don't like it, don't buy it, you have choices. And besides, why are you on here posting about it rather than talking to Shaw?


pkarlos_76

join:2004-08-24
Edmonton, AB
reply to perturbed
said by perturbed :

said by lostspaceman:

Your electricity company would most certainly charge a cancellation fee or require 30 days notice (the point is moot if you're in a province that has government run hydro though, here in Alberta is a different story). There's nothing stopping a restaurant owner from charging a similar fee, except that nobody would eat at that restaurant anymore. It's the same reason I don't tip 15% to the cashier @ Walmart.

Interesting, apparently there is no law according to you. Like the landlords and tenants pointed out. I guess Im dumb for spending money on expensive contracts. I should Just post a TOS that gives me the right to do what ever when ever.

Somethings not right.

But what if you are CHARGED the tip? Do you still not pay? You dont have a choice do you. I guess its an easy question, ether there is a "law/rule" or isn't!

Maybe the board of directors will know the answer? I would hope so! LoL

You obviously have never been in a court of law, and I hope you never do. You would be laughed out of court buddy.


perturbed

@telus.net
said by pkarlos_76:

said by perturbed :

said by lostspaceman:

Your electricity company would most certainly charge a cancellation fee or require 30 days notice (the point is moot if you're in a province that has government run hydro though, here in Alberta is a different story). There's nothing stopping a restaurant owner from charging a similar fee, except that nobody would eat at that restaurant anymore. It's the same reason I don't tip 15% to the cashier @ Walmart.

Interesting, apparently there is no law according to you. Like the landlords and tenants pointed out. I guess Im dumb for spending money on expensive contracts. I should Just post a TOS that gives me the right to do what ever when ever.

Somethings not right.

But what if you are CHARGED the tip? Do you still not pay? You dont have a choice do you. I guess its an easy question, ether there is a "law/rule" or isn't!

Maybe the board of directors will know the answer? I would hope so! LoL

You obviously have never been in a court of law, and I hope you never do. You would be laughed out of court buddy.

Yes I have been, and there is a little something call proof. You walk into a court room without proof and you'll be laughed out of court. I didn't agree to the change. Prove it, Buddy.

ilianame

join:2002-06-05
Burnaby, BC
kudos:2
As a person in Customer Service, I have to note of my observations:

There is "bad customer, service" & "bad, customer service"

In this situation Shaw has the former and not the latter.

waldstein

join:2010-07-25
Hoserland
said by ilianame:

As a person in Customer Service, I have to note of my observations:

There is "bad customer, service" & "bad, customer service"

In this situation Shaw has the former and not the latter.

Well put, but you're still feeding the troll.
OOOOPS, So am I!!!

ErikRP

join:2004-11-06
Winnipeg, MB
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to perturbed
Look, you may think you know the law, but I guarantee that if you tried to sue Shaw on this your case *might* last 12 seconds. You'd argue that you don't agree to the contract, Shaw would tell the judge you didn't cancel your service when the terms changed. By your continued use of their services you have implicitly agreed to the new terms. The onus is on you to be aware of the changes to the terms of service.

Case closed.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
said by ErikRP:

Look, you may think you know the law, but I guarantee that if you tried to sue Shaw on this your case *might* last 12 seconds. You'd argue that you don't agree to the contract, Shaw would tell the judge you didn't cancel your service when the terms changed. By your continued use of their services you have implicitly agreed to the new terms. The onus is on you to be aware of the changes to the terms of service.

Case closed.

Wrong.

Basic contract law is exactly the opposite of what you are stating.

The onus is on the enforcing party to prove the other explicitly agreed to the terms, and that the terms at the time of agreement were 100% quantifiable.

Without that, there is no contract.

Mike
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ErikRP

join:2004-11-06
Winnipeg, MB
Reviews:
·Shaw

1 edit
said by dillyhammer:

Wrong.

Basic contract law is exactly the opposite of what you are stating.

The onus is on the enforcing party to prove the other explicitly agreed to the terms, and that the terms at the time of agreement were 100% quantifiable.

Without that, there is no contract.

Mike

Nonsense. Otherwise every utility, for example, would have to get explicit agreement from customers that they agree to a rate increase. Instead a customer can either accept the rate or not use the service.

Courts have ruled that paying a bill in whole or in part is proof of acceptance of the terms.

For example: »zvulony.ca/2010/articles/interne···nts-law/


Agreed

@videotron.ca
reply to perturbed
I agree with perturbed.


perturbed

@telus.net
reply to ErikRP
said by ErikRP:

Look, you may think you know the law, but I guarantee that if you tried to sue Shaw on this your case *might* last 12 seconds. You'd argue that you don't agree to the contract, Shaw would tell the judge you didn't cancel your service when the terms changed. By your continued use of their services you have implicitly agreed to the new terms. The onus is on you to be aware of the changes to the terms of service.

Case closed.

Are you a lawyer or something?

The word "contract" keep coming up. "Contracts" have to be agreed to, an acknowledgment if you will. Ignorance of the law is not a deference. Shaw and other companies do not make laws.

So you say I continued to use the serve after it was amended. But whats funny is that the invoice is dated In July and the amendment was dated May. So how do I cancel my service with out the cancellation fee. Am I suppose to log on to shaw 10 times a day to see if they are changing things on me. Contacts are contracts. Everything else is to be determined.

Why kick you customers in the ars when they leave? Is it to make sure they don't come back?

ErikRP

join:2004-11-06
Winnipeg, MB
Reviews:
·Shaw
"Ignorance of the law is not a deference (sic)." So I'm assuming you're saying that Shaw's legal team don't have a clue about how to draft binding agreements?

Either sue Shaw or move on with or without them. Your argument has already been made in court and the courts disagree with you.


perturbed

@telus.net
said by ErikRP:

"Ignorance of the law is not a deference (sic)." So I'm assuming you're saying that Shaw's legal team don't have a clue about how to draft binding agreements?

Either sue Shaw or move on with or without them. Your argument has already been made in court and the courts disagree with you.

"Your argument has already been made in court and the courts disagree with you."

I apologize your honor, I don't wish to be held in Contempt. lol To funny.

Im sure Shaws legal team is well educated, however this does not mean just because they are smart gives them the right to walk out because they say so.

In your opinion, it sounds like a service agreement is just as or more powerful than a notarized contract.

stolen

join:2004-04-12
Calgary, AB
kudos:2
reply to perturbed
You agreed to it by simply using the service:
»www.shaw.ca/Terms-of-Use/#section2
By using any of Shaw's services*, including its cable, Internet and/or digital phone services and any related services (collectively or individually, the "Services") provided by any of Shaw Cablesystems G.P., Shaw Telecom G.P. or its or their partners and/or associates (collectively, "Shaw"), you agree to the following terms and conditions of service (the "Terms of Service")
And then a couple of sections down under "customer initiated termination":
You may terminate the Services for any reason at any time by providing Shaw no less than 30 days advance notice of your desire to terminate. Applicable Service charges continue to apply until the later of (1) the end of the notice period, or (2) such time as the Services are no longer accessible.
You agree that if the Services are terminated for any reason you will:
pay Shaw in full any amounts due and outstanding for your use of the Services and return the Rental Equipment to Shaw; and
permit Shaw to access the Service Location at a mutually agreed upon time to remove the Rental Equipment and any other equipment or materials provided by Shaw if you fail to return same to Shaw as required under these Terms of Service.
I applaud you if you wish to fight this and look forward to your groundbreaking case that would free us all. (not sarcasm!)


perturbed

@telus.net
said by stolen:

You agreed to it by simply using the service:
»www.shaw.ca/Terms-of-Use/#section2

By using any of Shaw's services*, including its cable, Internet and/or digital phone services and any related services (collectively or individually, the "Services") provided by any of Shaw Cablesystems G.P., Shaw Telecom G.P. or its or their partners and/or associates (collectively, "Shaw"), you agree to the following terms and conditions of service (the "Terms of Service")
And then a couple of sections down under "customer initiated termination":
You may terminate the Services for any reason at any time by providing Shaw no less than 30 days advance notice of your desire to terminate. Applicable Service charges continue to apply until the later of (1) the end of the notice period, or (2) such time as the Services are no longer accessible.
You agree that if the Services are terminated for any reason you will:
pay Shaw in full any amounts due and outstanding for your use of the Services and return the Rental Equipment to Shaw; and
permit Shaw to access the Service Location at a mutually agreed upon time to remove the Rental Equipment and any other equipment or materials provided by Shaw if you fail to return same to Shaw as required under these Terms of Service.
I applaud you if you wish to fight this and look forward to your groundbreaking case that would free us all. (not sarcasm!)

Going to court as an individual is pointless, not everybody has the time to squabble over a couple of hundred bucks.

Is a TOS legally binding? I have my opinion. The bulk of the TOS is already written out in the law in general. Pay your bill dont use the service in an illegal fashion etc etc... The other stuff is well made paragraphs. Is it legally binding like a real contract. I know shaw isn't the first kid on the block. Can they raise there rates? SURE. Can they incur hidden costs? SURE. But don't say a TOS is like a notarized contract. its appalling.

stolen

join:2004-04-12
Calgary, AB
kudos:2
While it may be appalling, doesn't mean it isn't as binding. (IANAL, I have no idea if a TOS is as binding as a notarized contract).


perturbed

@telus.net
reply to perturbed
Well I came here to say what I wanted. Once again, this thread isn't to bash "Shaw" (hereinafter CO) lol But it is to let other people know that there are now new "hidden charges", and hope it helps someone. As well, there are OTHERS who follow this practice not just CO.

Its not right to change things on costumers without proper notice. Someones definition on "notice" may vary.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to ErikRP
said by ErikRP:

said by dillyhammer:

Wrong.

Basic contract law is exactly the opposite of what you are stating.

The onus is on the enforcing party to prove the other explicitly agreed to the terms, and that the terms at the time of agreement were 100% quantifiable.

Without that, there is no contract.

Mike

Nonsense. Otherwise every utility, for example, would have to get explicit agreement from customers that they agree to a rate increase. Instead a customer can either accept the rate or not use the service.

Courts have ruled that paying a bill in whole or in part is proof of acceptance of the terms.

For example: »zvulony.ca/2010/articles/interne···nts-law/

Nonsense.

That ruling was given only because there was in fact a written contract signed by both parties and one of the terms in that written agreement was that Rogers could amend the agreement by posting the amendments on their website. I didn't see anything about a leave to appeal on that one either, and that ruling was 10 years ago. Consumer laws in Ontario now preclude many of the provisions that the SCO let slide in that one.

Nice try though.

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Make The Switch - »openmedia.ca/switch