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bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to arisk

Re: Xplornet vs. Rocket/Turbo for rural dilemma

said by arisk:

said by scorpido:

I do not think were going to be of much help without a actual location. Just because you think that there are no options does not actually mean their are none. You might have missed one. If you can provide the town/city of the person in question it will help us more.

I really don't get this.
I stated the facts (twice in and in caps) in my first posting to try to avoid this type of diversion.

I'm intimately familiar with the location. I know the options. You don't.

And without the actual location, nobody can give you advice on cell signal strength or tower load.

So even within the options you listed, location is still necessary to give you a response that is more than guesswork.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to arisk

said by arisk:

said by Guspaz:

You know exactly what providers have equipment on every single tall structure or tower within a several mile radius of your location,

Yes, as related to internet providers.

which providers have plans to do so in the future,

Future is irrelevant. It is needed now.
There are many others besides me who have already looked into the available providers.
This issue of lack of providers is many years old and has been followed and examined by many locals who are familiar with the local situation.
The proper people have already been consulted. Answers have already been given.

I think you're being arrogant, and unfair to scorpido, who is only trying to help.

I see it as arrogant to assume I haven't already examined the possibilities and question the facts as I presented them.
I know far more about the specifics in the area.
Derailing a thread because you believe you know more about a specific locale is where the arrogance lies.

said by OHSrob:

Neither Xplornet nor the Rocket/Turbo hub's will give you internet anything even remotely like what you expect in the city. you will be gouged with overcharges, and your service will not preform near advertised in the peak hours.


I never said I had any of those expectations. Did you see "NO OTHER OPTIONS"?
I simply was looking at differences between the two to make the most informed decision.

It took me less than 10minuets to find a wisp with google in your area. www.maximumisp.com

Really? Big county. Diverse geography.
Why do you think I didn't already do that? No service to the location I refer to.

I fail to understand why I when I provide specific details and facts, the discussion gets derailed.
If I tell you my local grocery store only sells apples, oranges and bananas, don't tell me to buy pineapples.

The answers and discussions which have stayed on topic have been useful and to those posters thanks for the info.
I've learned a few things relevant to the mentioned services which warrant consideration.

I guess this all serves to demonstrate the "rural divide" as far as internet service.
Even when pointed out in black and white, some people simply can't comprehend that there are areas without good options.

Have you even talked to Maximum ISP ?. They even have equipment on some cell towers and have been around for a while. I am pretty sure they have a big coverage area's.

I am mentioning this because there are hundreds of wireless internet service providers that have been established to service people like the person you talk about and you probably wouldn't even know many of them were around you because they don't have Rogers/Bell/Xplornet's marketing budget's.

MaximumISP also is a wholesaler for the equipment they use so they probably have everything up to date.

If you have to pick one it really depends what you want. If the person just wants to check their email and load the occasional youtube video either will do.

I think Xplornet has packages with higher cap's.

Neither is properly suitable for online gaming,VOIP or anything else that is sensitive to high ping or jitter.

jumpingryan

join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON
reply to arisk

I am just replying to the original poster..... I am probally one of the few people on here who is enjoying both Xplorernet 4G Sat and Turbo Hub due to my location in Petawawa, Ontario.

I live about 1 to 2 KM outside the DSL zone, with no options available to me to set up a tower due to VERY tall, old trees (one in my yard is over 12 feet in circumference and well over 150 feet tall)

Either Bell or Rogers Turbo hubs have some advantages in my area. Bell has the best reception in my area, and we went with them. The speed is good, generally 3 to 5Mbits per second, and a good 700 k to 1 mBits upload. The latency is key for my wife, who works online using VPN. She gets around 30 ms. We also get the Bell "Speedboost"

The issue is bandwidth at 15 gigs a month, and $15 a gig after. Last month we used 40 Gigs, so you do the math, and it is costing us alot.

Rogers apparently has a maximum they will charge you for bandwidth, and I have thought about moving to them.... but change is slow with us right now.

One of the key tips we got was to consider getting a second sim card to cut costs. It is alot cheaper to subscribe to a second package, and swap sims after you hit your first 15 gigs of the month. I am pissed that we have to do that, as Bell seems to want you to have good net, but not afford to surf it....

This to me is one of Bell's racket's they have going on.....

---------

I am using Xplorernet 4G Sat Business Max right now to type this. I am more of a bandwidth person. You need a GST number to get a Business package with Xplorernet. My wife also uses this to upgrade her computer and for big downloads while not on VPN.

Xplorrnet has sort of improved over the last few months of me using it.... over a week ago we had bad weather, and we lost most connection (very low speeds). When I called, they told me they were having spot beam problems..... However it rained today, and things really went fast for surfing this evening.

I have done BitTorrent, and have gotten speeds up to 250K down and 150 K up, but I suspect they do shape traffic with regards to incoming connections somehow.

The speed is generally about 3.5 to 4 Mbits down and 700 K up. (I am on a 5 Mbits down/1Mbits up plan). Pings are at 700 ms, but surfing the web is fairly fast most times.

---------

Nobody can really say what the perfect solution is for you, but both are good options when you have none like me. If it wasn't for Xplorernet, I would have nothing...... and I think they are doing better with this 4G Sat than ANYBODY expected. Their customer service is friendly, and they seem responsive to any issues quickly. I know about their bad rep, but maybe their experience has taught them some stuff on how to do better.... along with significant investment in technology.

Bell just pisses me off mainly because they have no interest in bringing DSL to my house because they can make FAR more money sucking us dry with wireless. But they have the DSL side of things monopolized, and the cell tower side of things almost monopolized as well.

Anyways, good luck in your choice....

R


arisk

join:2001-08-08
London, ON

said by jumpingryan:

I am just replying to the original poster..... I am probally one of the few people on here who is enjoying both Xplorernet 4G Sat and Turbo Hub due to my location in Petawawa, Ontario.

Thanks for your refreshing post, just as I was losing faith.

The second SIM card is an interesting tip.
I doubt it would get to that point, but something to file away.

Have you ever attempted any remote access back home through the Xplornet link?

jumpingryan

join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON

said by arisk:

said by jumpingryan:

I am just replying to the original poster..... I am probally one of the few people on here who is enjoying both Xplorernet 4G Sat and Turbo Hub due to my location in Petawawa, Ontario.

Thanks for your refreshing post, just as I was losing faith.

The second SIM card is an interesting tip.
I doubt it would get to that point, but something to file away.

Have you ever attempted any remote access back home through the Xplornet link?

No I haven't yet, but I might be making an attempt within a week or so...... The package I am on (the top business package available) has a static IP FYI.

As a side off topic note on a current project: I used to run a HP EX 470 Windows Home Server Box to serve files, and I even rigged up a little for automatic BitTorrent. With the death of the WHS Drive extender technology (which I loved for it's ease of use), I am VERY slowly figuring out Ubuntu Server which I have managed to force onto the machine with some resistance with both hardware & software.

I will keep your post in mind when I give it a try later on... I will strive to report results soon.....

As I mentioned before, my wife finds the 4G Satellite unusable for VPN stuff.... but she uses a GUI Remote Desktop Connection over the net. Turbo/Rocket hubs handle this just as good/better than DSL in areas with quality cell coverage, and quality equipment on the towers.

With my new Ubuntu install on the old HP MediaSmart Server, I want to see if I can simply access files on the server remotely, and operate it remotely though the command line. I don't know what you are planning, but GUI Remote Connection stuff might not work well with Sat 4G.

Good luck in your choices...... the technologies are comparable in some respects for basic internet demands, but each companies' offerings are different things to different internet users.

Ryan

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

With out any details on location (did you rip off the bikers or something?lol pretty paranoid) I would also say check with maximumisp.com but since you know all the towers might as well go with Xplornet. Hope this helps. I am ending my part in this thread unless more information on location is provided.


arisk

join:2001-08-08
London, ON
reply to arisk

With the cooperation of an Xplornet customer, I've performed a remote access test via Logmein.

Results were quite acceptable.
Would I want to use it for a workstation or a "work from home" situation? No.
Was it nice? No.
It wasn't frustrating though. It was better than expected.
I maintained a stable connection during which time I was able to perform any of the tasks which would be required, without screaming in frustration.

For the purposes of remote assistance for occasional use it was very useable.

Two speed test sites gave DL speeds of 2.00 Mb/s and 1.97 Mb/s and latency of 479ms & 541ms

The pros/cons/limitations of each are now known and it's up to the end user to decide which way to go, based on all factors.



Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
kudos:1
reply to arisk

said by arisk:

said by Guspaz:

You know exactly what providers have equipment on every single tall structure or tower within a several mile radius of your location,

I guess this all serves to demonstrate the "rural divide" as far as internet service.
Even when pointed out in black and white, some people simply can't comprehend that there are areas without good options.

There is ALWAYS a wireless option. It just that no one ever wants to pay _that_ much for it... But you ALWAYS have a wireless option. There's NEVER a place that you can't get 1.5Mbps Service to or even 100Mbps for that matter. But anyway your very... umm.. let's call it 'strong' assertion that you don't want diversions argues you right into your very own corner... you realize that right ? So no one is going to go out of the box and offer you something that maybe just maybe you didn't know about and could be far better than what you're absolutely positively sure is the only way you can go?

Cool


bravbro

@198.254.147.x
reply to arisk

I am in a similar situation:

Was on Bell Turbo Hub, but we average 24 GB a month for a family of 6. Which means we were chalking up huge amounts of data and huge bills.

Just made the switch to Xplornet. If I could avoid it, I would, but its the same price as Bell, slower speeds, but you get twice the bandwidth cap. That is the only benefit we get. Cannot get Netflix because it would eat up bandwidth...can't online game or download otherwise because of bandwidth and bursting...Skype is a problem as well...But it is the only choice (as far as I can tell)

We do not have access to DSL or Cable, and we are in Pickering, ON. I can literally see the Ajax town line, where they have Rogers cable, from my front porch, but we do not have service...I wish there was a way to petition Bell or Rogers to extend service...



XT0RT
S3x, Drugs, War

join:2001-07-28
Edmonton, AB
reply to Semaphore

Don't always assume that wireless (Canopy for example) is an option. If a residence cannot achieve line-of-sight with the tower, wireless will not work for spit. You try installing a wireless radio when a house is surrounded by trees that are taller than said house. 900 MHz just barely penetrates through the trees, so 2.4 and 5.2 GHz won't be an option. Best speed that I have achieved over Canopy is 2-3 Mbps.

As for the VSAT through Xplornet, we recently had that service installed at a camp site not far from Cold Lake, AB. It works, but the latency just tanks once a VPN connection has been established to the corporate network. Using LogMeIn is nearly impossible due to the latency.
--
Core i7 2720QM : GTX 460M : 16GB DDR3-1333 : 320GB x 2 in RAID 0 : Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
I have anonymous postings turned off.



Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
kudos:1

1 edit

I build wireless networks for a living. Wireless is ALWAYS an option, it's just a matter of how much are you willing to spend.

Canopy is now among the slowest 900Mhz solutions in the market. Move to a MIMO 900 solution with sufficient Fresnel and you'll make 5Mbps easy. I've seen 12Mbps over 900Mhz MIMO at 4 Kms with about 50% of it moderate deciduous foliage... but the OP doesn't want to talk about options such as that.


arisk

join:2001-08-08
London, ON

said by Semaphore:

I build wireless networks for a living. Wireless is ALWAYS an option, it's just a matter of how much are you willing to spend.

Canopy is now among the slowest 900Mhz solutions in the market. Move to a MIMO 900 solution with sufficient Fresnel and you'll make 5Mbps easy. I've seen 12Mbps over 900Mhz MIMO at 4 Kms with about 50% of it moderate deciduous foliage... but the OP doesn't want to talk about options such as that.

If guys like you would build them, they would be an option.
They don't exist.

I'm at the consumer end of things.
Am I supposed to build the infrastructure?

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

Sure, build it yourself. Grab a couple Ubiquiti Rocket M5's with RD30's and find someone in town to share internet with and split the bill.
You seem to have had a good trial run with Xplornet, so go with them. You say there are no other options, so there's your best bet from the lack of address information provided.
I also can say for 100% for sure that there is another wireless option in your area. So I'm not sure where you get your information that there is not.



Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
kudos:1
reply to arisk

said by arisk:

said by Semaphore:

If guys like you would build them, they would be an option.
They don't exist.

I'm at the consumer end of things.
Am I supposed to build the infrastructure?

Sure I can do that. I assume You'll pay for it ? Because as I said I do it for a living so I do expect to get paid.

And Yes you are expected to pay for it - did you get hydro to your property yet ? I bet that it was totally remote and Hydro1 has told you that THEY will cover ALL the costs of getting electricity JUST to you right ? Totally Free. C'mon!! If your location is that ridiculously far out of the way - which we can only assume it is since you refuse to divulge the secret sauce - then YES you should be expected to PAY for it. Forget the Digital Divide line too - That's a political crock of steaming hot sauce itself - I live in the country, and I have ALL my life, and you know WHY ? because I love the COUNTRY, not because I righteously DEMAND to have every damn thing they have in the City without any of the drawbacks, plus let's not forget the "for FREE" Part.

And by the way I did pay for the connection to My remote property because I wanted it and it was totally impractical to expect ANY ONE but me to pay for it. And it was a LOT of money... but then I expect to have to pay my own way, not to whine about someone else not doing it for me.

arisk

join:2001-08-08
London, ON

Go back and read my original posting and ask youreself if you have in any way contributed anything constructive to this post.

Life's too short to deal with your reading comprehension.
Thanks to those who were helpful.
Bye.



Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by arisk:

Go back and read my original posting and ask youreself if you have in any way contributed anything constructive to this post.
Bye.
7. Other constructive comments welcome.
Any caveats I'm not aware of?
Remember the NO OTHER OPTIONS situation.

Yup i can read - see point 7 above ? There are ALWAYS other options... not our fault that YOU don't want to accept that or to pay for it...


XT0RT
S3x, Drugs, War

join:2001-07-28
Edmonton, AB

said by Semaphore:

said by arisk:

Go back and read my original posting and ask youreself if you have in any way contributed anything constructive to this post.
Bye.
7. Other constructive comments welcome.
Any caveats I'm not aware of?
Remember the NO OTHER OPTIONS situation.

Yup i can read - see point 7 above ? There are ALWAYS other options... not our fault that YOU don't want to accept that or to pay for it...

How about not being an asshat and accept the fact that a lot of people cannot afford such luxuries. I can accept the fact that a higher cost of living is expected if you want to live out in the boonies, but he's probably not making the six-figure salary like a network engineer such as yourself is making. AFAIC, wireless providers charge too much for the labour to get someone started on a WISP service.

--
Core i7 2720QM : GTX 460M : 16GB DDR3-1333 : 320GB x 2 in RAID 0 : Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
I have anonymous postings turned off.


Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
kudos:1

said by XT0RT:

How about not being an asshat and accept the fact that a lot of people cannot afford such luxuries. I can accept the fact that a higher cost of living is expected if you want to live out in the boonies, but he's probably not making the six-figure salary like a network engineer such as yourself is making. AFAIC, wireless providers charge too much for the labour to get someone started on a WISP service.

ROFLMAO - I'm a tower climber not an Engineer.. you think a tower monkey, working for and ISP makes a six figure salary ?
Try about 36K a year - look it up. And I don't think I'm being an Asshat - I think I'm a realist - if you want something pay for it. If you can't afford it, save for it. If you can't save money then forget about it. I work my asshat off for less money than most bartenders make, and I accept the fact that I have to pay for what I want... seems pretty straight forward to me.
The OP was adamant that there were not other options. That's false. He asked for someone to think out of the box - a number of folks here tried that, BUT he doesn't wanna hear that it would take time and effort, and (oh my) money on his part.... There are always other options but very few people want to take the responsibility to pay for it themselves and then folks like yerself wanna lay blame on us millionairess that are making 36K a year working 12 hour days 6 days a week from -30C to +36C, a few hundred feet in the air to try to get that "overpriced" service to you.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08

said by Semaphore:

said by XT0RT:

How about not being an asshat and accept the fact that a lot of people cannot afford such luxuries. I can accept the fact that a higher cost of living is expected if you want to live out in the boonies, but he's probably not making the six-figure salary like a network engineer such as yourself is making. AFAIC, wireless providers charge too much for the labour to get someone started on a WISP service.

ROFLMAO - I'm a tower climber not an Engineer.. you think a tower monkey, working for and ISP makes a six figure salary ?
Try about 36K a year - look it up. And I don't think I'm being an Asshat - I think I'm a realist - if you want something pay for it. If you can't afford it, save for it. If you can't save money then forget about it. I work my asshat off for less money than most bartenders make, and I accept the fact that I have to pay for what I want... seems pretty straight forward to me.
The OP was adamant that there were not other options. That's false. He asked for someone to think out of the box - a number of folks here tried that, BUT he doesn't wanna hear that it would take time and effort, and (oh my) money on his part.... There are always other options but very few people want to take the responsibility to pay for it themselves and then folks like yerself wanna lay blame on us millionairess that are making 36K a year working 12 hour days 6 days a week from -30C to +36C, a few hundred feet in the air to try to get that "overpriced" service to you.

Semaphore speaks truth, People in the wisp industry aren’t in it to get rich. They are generally in it to provide the best service. My service comparable to wholesaler adsl1 broadband in the city.

The reason's installations cost so much with most wisp's is because a install to be done properly can take between 1.5-4 hours and the materials cost's add up.

It is very enjoyable to offer people what a service that is comparable to bell/wholesale ADSL for latency and consistency.
--
www.ontariohighspeed.ca

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

Well, glad to see we were all able to help Mr. CIA. lol I hate it when people do what the OP did. Come in and want answers but refuse to provide the information to get the right answers or assume they know everything before they even ask the question..lol Maybe a mod wants to lock this thread as the OP has apparently decided to end it all.



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to arisk

Sitting at Sauble Beach right now on Telus wireless 3G. But I keep getting a Sign up from MaximumISP on WiFi. This is new this year. Who? What technology? Packages seem competitive with Bell and Eastlink. I suspect they could sell a weekly access package for tourists, too.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by DKS:

Sitting at Sauble Beach right now on Telus wireless 3G. But I keep getting a Sign up from MaximumISP on WiFi. This is new this year. Who? What technology? Packages seem competitive with Bell and Eastlink. I suspect they could sell a weekly access package for tourists, too.

There's a company here in Fort Erie who makes their bread and butter off selling seasonal access to the American cottagers who come up during the summer. This is also the first summer that we've had Wind Mobile coverage all along the Lake Erie shore from Fort Erie to Port Colborne, and I have no doubt that Wind put those towers up to not only rake in on T-Mobile roaming but to also get in on net access. Should be interesting to see what effect that has on the Last Mile guys.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Gone:

I have no doubt that Wind put those towers up to not only rake in on T-Mobile roaming but to also get in on net access. Should be interesting to see what effect that has on the Last Mile guys.

Indeed, my phone can detect the tower in Barrie but can't sign on to it... if it did I wouldn't be looking into a WISP near my cottage.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


Woodlane

join:2012-06-02
K7G-2V6
Reviews:
·Xplornet
reply to arisk

I have had a Rounter and spare notebook monitoring this xPlornet/Viasat connection 24/7 since installation in March. You can see my ongoing review here on DSLReports at '»Review of Xplornet by Woodlane'.
I have the 'middle of the road' Standard 3Mbps/400kbps package. A 30 day trial period is provided. After that early termination cost can be pricey. I have the 2 year contract with the hopes that rural access technology will improve in that time.


scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

Sitting at Sauble Beach right now on Telus wireless 3G. But I keep getting a Sign up from MaximumISP on WiFi. This is new this year. Who? What technology? Packages seem competitive with Bell and Eastlink. I suspect they could sell a weekly access package for tourists, too.

I know that MaximumISP has a very strong solid stable network, and well worth the money. It is fast and ping times are great. I'm not sure if it is new as of this year, but I know the guy who runs it and his wireless network is massive and he resells the same brand of equipment he uses for his network.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2

said by scorpido:

said by DKS:

Sitting at Sauble Beach right now on Telus wireless 3G. But I keep getting a Sign up from MaximumISP on WiFi. This is new this year. Who? What technology? Packages seem competitive with Bell and Eastlink. I suspect they could sell a weekly access package for tourists, too.

I know that MaximumISP has a very strong solid stable network, and well worth the money. It is fast and ping times are great. I'm not sure if it is new as of this year, but I know the guy who runs it and his wireless network is massive and he resells the same brand of equipment he uses for his network.

They show up as wireless-n. They weren't here last summer.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

kiba1

join:2010-07-21
Valemount, BC
reply to arisk

Probably too late now to influence any decision re:Xplornet vs Rocket/Turbo, but I just wanted to add my input. I run an IT company where a large part of our work involves remote access and we are located somewhere where satellite was our only option (surrounded by mountains where 3 ranges converge, the local WISP unable to provide even 50% uptime here and no cell signal!)

We find the new Viasat/4G satellite to be fine for remote access (via Teamviewer) whereas our previous one (their Hughesnet system) was painfully laggy... It was still useable for remote access if we were the only satellite internet user in the active connection, but unbearable if it was a satellite subscriber to satellite subscriber link. Now it's fine. You soon get used to the slight lag (even with Skype it's not that bad) and we have no dropped connections (not that there were dropped connections before, either - just horrendous lag!)

And as a bonus, with the new faster system and our (not yet enforced ) 80GB bandwidth limit per month we can even watch Netflix movies of an evening!


kiba1

join:2010-07-21
Valemount, BC
reply to arisk

quote:
I guess this all serves to demonstrate the "rural divide" as far as internet service.
Even when pointed out in black and white, some people simply can't comprehend that there are areas without good options.
You can say that again. I often have people finding it impossible to comprehend that we cannot get a cell signal at home, or that we have no other option for internet on our property than satellite, until they actually see the place... We're 18km from the nearest village and literally surrounded by mountains... Yup - then they understand.


lowlevel

join:2008-02-27
Milton, ON
reply to arisk

I had a remote user on Xplornet, and her connections/sessions would be dropped all the time. VPN and web conferencing/etc all next to impossible. I'm highly skeptical that the new offering will be any better in this regard.


kiba1

join:2010-07-21
Valemount, BC

said by lowlevel:

I had a remote user on Xplornet, and her connections/sessions would be dropped all the time. VPN and web conferencing/etc all next to impossible. I'm highly skeptical that the new offering will be any better in this regard.

You'll probably find that she was on their stupid system that we suffered for a couple of years whereby if you exceeded your daily download allowance (which on the basic package = 250MB, I believe...we were paying for their cheapest business package which gave us 525MB/24hrs...whoop-de-do!) then they throttle you down to dial-up speed for a full 24hrs from when you exceed the limit. Once that's happened, no way is any remote access going to work.

Their new system works perfectly for us with Skype, Logmein & Teamviewer. We don't have a daily cap - it's now monthly, and if we go over our 80GB (once they manage to implement their usage tracking!) we will be able to pay for any over useage, rather than being throttled to a snail's pace.

We get the advertised speeds most of the time and even when we don't, it drops to around 50% at worst (for us - YMMV) so it's still good enough for remote access to work reliably.