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Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to Snakeoil

Re: [Revolution] SPOILER!

said by Snakeoil:

Be interesting to see a map. And I agree, why would he need all those troops? Besides keeping his subjects in line.

They already said that if Monroe could get the power working for just him, he would be able to use helicopters and tanks and such and be able to rollover all the other republics.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to darcilicious

Re: Revolution (NBC, Sept 17)

I finally got around to setting up my DVR timer to record Revolution. After looking at it, I realize Revolution will soon be canceled.
It's up against Hawaii 5-0 and Castle. IMO, NBC would have been smart to put this on SY-Fy or USA. Or run it during a "break" in the regular season.
I've been watching the show at NBCs site. The video player they use sucks on my linux box. It makes my eyes hurt. But I figure if I watch it there, it'll count towards the number.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
Meh, I don’t watch Hawaii 5-0 or Castle. Maybe they do well in the ratings but neither are scifi shows. Regardless of whether they have some cast members from well loved scifi shows I’m not interested.

I agree Revolution will likely be canceled though.

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to darcilicious
Considering the title, it seems to me that the main plot of this show is for rebels to defeat the militias who are suppressing everyone and restore the United States within the constraint that electrical devices do no function most of the time .

In episode 2, Chained Heat, Miles, Charlie and Nora rescue prisoners of the Monroe Militia being used as slave labor. Being escapees they can not realistically go back home because the militia will be looking for them. Because Miles is too reluctant, one of the women needs to step forward and give the escapees the option to join them to fight against the Monroe Militia. Miles can train them. Presto, they have an unit with expendable characters to attack supply convoys to equip themselves and rescue Danny. I am doubtful the writers are competent enough to recognize the opportunity.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms

1 recommendation

said by Spice300:

I am doubtful the writers are competent enough to recognize the opportunity.

What strikes me is how limited, how narrow in concept, this show is.

As has been said, why has America been locked in at such a primitive level?

And what's happening in other countries?

The Romans built roads, had communication, and ruled much of the world thousands of years before electricity.

Magellan sailed around the world hundreds of years before electricity.

Napoleon made massive wars all over Europe, long before electricity.

The US Civil War was a gigantic event, carried out without electricity except for the telegraph.

So why in this show are things limited to little local warlords putzing around?

Yes, we are not the people our parents or great-great-grandparents were....

But after 15 years, more adaptation would be going on.

This show is at a simplistic level.

----------------------

I just HOPE that the writers know how they will explain the phenomenon, AND that the explanation won't be so stupid or non-credible that we will fall out of our chairs laughing.

Aliens?

Someone's dream they wake up from?

A morality test for humanity, akin to Philip José Farmer's [Riverworld] series?

Some kind of massive American tech experiment gone awry, as in the movie "The Quiet Earth"?


Draiman
Let me see those devil horns in the sky

join:2012-06-01
Kill Devil Hills, NC
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits
reply to Alcohol

Re: [Revolution] SPOILER!

said by Alcohol:

said by TwiztedZero:

Meanwhiles... I'm missing Falling Skies oh So MUCH!!!

Why? This show seems to have equally bad actors

I'm with you there. Both shows are on the same level. They could kill any character in Fallen Skies and no one would care. As mentioned Terra Nova was in this category as well.

This would be why the show won't be cancelled in season one. They'll renew it for at least one more season.
"...J.J. Abrams as executive producer, “Supernatural’s” Eric Kripke as creator and Jon Favreau (“Iron Man”) in the director’s chair..."

On the other hand the show is only pulling 2.5 million viewers in the 18-49 demographic and that normally spells 'CANCEL'.
--
IF YOU FIND ANY MISTAKES IN MY WORK...Please consider that they are there for a purpose. I try to please everyone and there is always someone looking for mistakes!


Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Denver, CO
reply to PX Eliezer70

Re: Revolution (NBC, Sept 17)

This is exactly why I am not watching the show. The premise is so unrealistic and the events that happen after the event are even more unrealistic.

I could see the US government losing control of some of the states (though California was a state when it took a long ass time to travel from CA to DC). But there is no way state and local governments would collapse. I believe the show takes place in Chicago. The very idea that the Chicago local government isn't strong enough to maintain a level of governance is laughable.
--
What smells like blue?


Alpha Phoenix
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1
reply to darcilicious
Not crazy about the show, and the chick is too damned annoying for my taste. You know how many times I've just wanted to smack the shyt outta her right into a wall over the course of these 3 episodes so far???

Not crazy about the show, but I really like the necklace/amulet. Been trying to find out where I can purchase it, but have been unable to do so. Anybody know where I can buy it (sans the USB aspect of it of course)?



--
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

As has been said, why has America been locked in at such a primitive level?

15 years of war among sociopaths and militias has left the U.S. destitute. Militias do not produce food because they steal it from others. They conscript young men, kidnap young women and murder anyone who resists or threatens to acquire power over them. They take the most productive workers and turn them into soldiers. Anyone who invents a machine that makes a community more powerful than a militia is kidnapped or killed and the machine taken or destroyed to further the power of the warlords. If the people are kept weak, struggling to produce enough food to survive, then they are easy to control. 310 million people have probably been reduced to a few tens of million by starvation and murder. Oppression requires revolution to cure.

The writers are very poor at expressing what has happened leaving the audience rather confused. Showing the collapse over the last 15 years using flashbacks is a poor choice because the audience does not believe society could collapse to the level of the medieval or dark ages. In my opinion this level of collapse is plausible, if, one day, all electrical equipment suddenly stopped working. The problems have to do with the characters not being as rugged as one would expect for what they have experienced. Miles is too feeble looking to be a super-warrior which is a failure of casting.

Here is a scenario. There is a farmer with tens of thousands of acres of corn 2 weeks before harvest. Suddenly all electrical equipment stops working which means no tractors, no lights at night and no refrigeration (all the meat in his freezer spoils). He has corn to eat but not much else. There is no way he can harvest all of his corn manually. However, this farmer is fourth generation, has a garden, a chicken coop and a few cows. He and his family are not in immediate danger of running out of food. His grandpa's old diesel tractor is parked in the barn and being a rugged farmer knows how to repair his equipment. He removes the electric starter and rigs up a manual crank starter. It already has a mechanical fuel pump, so no problem. He gets it going, hooks up a harvester and harvests 100 acres of corn. He has enough corn to feed his family for years and enough left over to sell or trade for other crops. He hooks up a trailer to his tractor and slowly drives a load of corn to the farmer's market in town.

Three weeks after all electrical equipment stopped working he drives into a town occupied by starving people. A person walks by snatching a basket from his trailer. Then another and another. The farmer tries to stop them but is overwhelmed and trampled to death by a mob. There is not enough for everyone so a riot breaks out. Three brothers with guns leap onto the tractor and shoot into the crowd to secure the booty. Their tactic fails because the starving people are savage. They push the tractor and trailer over crushing one of the brothers and kill the other two.

Result: Corpses lying in the street. The farmer's non-electric tractor is a heap lying on the shoulder of the road and his knowledge lost upon his death. Next year there will be no harvest at his farm that could feed 100 people for a year. Maybe his wife and children can plant a garden and sustain the chickens and cows, but only if someone does not come along and steal or kill anyone. Maybe they have the foresight and knowledge to convert some of that unharvested corn and corn stocks into compost for their garden because they certainly will not be getting any more industrial fertilizer. They are reduced to subsistence farming.

Starving people are not rational. They are brutal and only consider the present. Desperate people usually eat their seed crop. Thus goes anarchy.

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
Clarification: the farming being isolated out on the farm did not know that electrical equipment failed for everyone else and thus did not realize the desperate situation in town. He spent his time modifying the tractor and harvesting. He had no time for anything else.

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to Omega
said by Omega:

But there is no way state and local governments would collapse. I believe the show takes place in Chicago. The very idea that the Chicago local government isn't strong enough to maintain a level of governance is laughable.

How well do police maintain control during a riot? They back off and wait for reinforcements to arrive. In this event no reinforcements would arrive and the situation would deteriorate rapidly as the days progress. With the just-in-time delivery system halted, grocery store shelves would be empty within days. The police would most likely secure food stocks and basically become thieves. Starving people with guns who band together would attack those police who hoard food. Those who win the battles take charge. Government fails in such chaos.


Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
I can see order and government breaking down. Without communications, areas are left on their own. Even the military would likely have issues as some would leave to get home to their families. Keeping control of the country would be very hard during a time when people are starving and not knowing what is going on. 200 years ago government functioned but because it had evolved and people were fairly self sufficient. In Revolution, govt would have to de-evolve. But I am not sure any government is ready to have no power/communication.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to darcilicious
Just curious or am I the only one who half expects to see zombies walking around too?

Maybe I am just yearning for the Walking Dead.

I am curious to see why electrical devices seem to randomly come on for a short period of time
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to Spice300
said by Spice300:

Here is a scenario. There is a farmer with tens of thousands of acres of corn 2 weeks before harvest. Suddenly all electrical equipment stops working....

Damn!

You should be writing for the show! Seriously!


TheGeeze
Doctor Mud
Premium
join:2002-07-17
Magnolia, TX
reply to darcilicious
I see Revolution has been picked up for the full season. Apparently someone is watching.


Grimm

join:2011-05-23
reply to Spice300
said by Spice300:

said by PX Eliezer70:

As has been said, why has America been locked in at such a primitive level?

15 years of war among sociopaths and militias has left the U.S. destitute. Militias do not produce food because they steal it from others. They conscript young men, kidnap young women and murder anyone who resists or threatens to acquire power over them. They take the most productive workers and turn them into soldiers. Anyone who invents a machine that makes a community more powerful than a militia is kidnapped or killed and the machine taken or destroyed to further the power of the warlords. If the people are kept weak, struggling to produce enough food to survive, then they are easy to control. 310 million people have probably been reduced to a few tens of million by starvation and murder. Oppression requires revolution to cure.

The writers are very poor at expressing what has happened leaving the audience rather confused. Showing the collapse over the last 15 years using flashbacks is a poor choice because the audience does not believe society could collapse to the level of the medieval or dark ages. In my opinion this level of collapse is plausible, if, one day, all electrical equipment suddenly stopped working. The problems have to do with the characters not being as rugged as one would expect for what they have experienced. Miles is too feeble looking to be a super-warrior which is a failure of casting.

Here is a scenario. There is a farmer with tens of thousands of acres of corn 2 weeks before harvest. Suddenly all electrical equipment stops working which means no tractors, no lights at night and no refrigeration (all the meat in his freezer spoils). He has corn to eat but not much else. There is no way he can harvest all of his corn manually. However, this farmer is fourth generation, has a garden, a chicken coop and a few cows. He and his family are not in immediate danger of running out of food. His grandpa's old diesel tractor is parked in the barn and being a rugged farmer knows how to repair his equipment. He removes the electric starter and rigs up a manual crank starter. It already has a mechanical fuel pump, so no problem. He gets it going, hooks up a harvester and harvests 100 acres of corn. He has enough corn to feed his family for years and enough left over to sell or trade for other crops. He hooks up a trailer to his tractor and slowly drives a load of corn to the farmer's market in town.

Three weeks after all electrical equipment stopped working he drives into a town occupied by starving people. A person walks by snatching a basket from his trailer. Then another and another. The farmer tries to stop them but is overwhelmed and trampled to death by a mob. There is not enough for everyone so a riot breaks out. Three brothers with guns leap onto the tractor and shoot into the crowd to secure the booty. Their tactic fails because the starving people are savage. They push the tractor and trailer over crushing one of the brothers and kill the other two.

Result: Corpses lying in the street. The farmer's non-electric tractor is a heap lying on the shoulder of the road and his knowledge lost upon his death. Next year there will be no harvest at his farm that could feed 100 people for a year. Maybe his wife and children can plant a garden and sustain the chickens and cows, but only if someone does not come along and steal or kill anyone. Maybe they have the foresight and knowledge to convert some of that unharvested corn and corn stocks into compost for their garden because they certainly will not be getting any more industrial fertilizer. They are reduced to subsistence farming.

Starving people are not rational. They are brutal and only consider the present. Desperate people usually eat their seed crop. Thus goes anarchy.

If only others could have an imagination like this, they could easily get sucked into any show/movie and not be so critical of everything.

Bravo, Spice300. Bravo.
--
Slydermv--In short.. hookers save lives.


Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to darcilicious
After watching last night's episode, I am kinda annoyed.

There was no purpose to the episode. Anything that was achieved by last night's show could have been done without it happening. The one lady died. Was her only purpose to the storyline to make Miles stay? Granted she didn't do much either but why have her in the show at all? Or is she just one of those characters that are there at the begining that the writers want to kill off to make it feel more 'real life' and that anyone can die?

In any case it was an episode that was just 'filler' to me.

I was amused last week when my son went to watch last week's episode only to have the power go out.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Spice300
said by Spice300:

said by Omega:

But there is no way state and local governments would collapse. I believe the show takes place in Chicago. The very idea that the Chicago local government isn't strong enough to maintain a level of governance is laughable.

How well do police maintain control during a riot? They back off and wait for reinforcements to arrive. In this event no reinforcements would arrive and the situation would deteriorate rapidly as the days progress. With the just-in-time delivery system halted, grocery store shelves would be empty within days. The police would most likely secure food stocks and basically become thieves. Starving people with guns who band together would attack those police who hoard food. Those who win the battles take charge. Government fails in such chaos.

I can see both sides of it, you’ve made some very good points though.

I think anyone that has been in the military or police know the value of training and discipline. It makes a great deal of what needs to be done in hostile situations second nature and reflexive. I don’t believe the US military would disband and they would already be sitting on the largest stockpile of weapons so there would be no need to hoard weapons. However, disarming the general population would be advisable.

Desertion of ones post can result in the penalty of death even in today’s armed forces and that is something very significant. Retention shouldn’t be a big problem. Generally speaking, people in the military understand that survival is dependent on the people that they fight with as a unified force. The armed forces generally have access to large supplies of food that have a high shelf life.

So I guess its IMO that the misuse of the US military seems more likely then the formation of small militia. I could see high ranking military leaders turning on the government and seizing power under the guise of martial law.

The local police forces would just be overwhelmed but the military can definitely deal with this type of situation and do so over an extended period of time.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
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Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to Voxxjin
We've had modern day examples of how swiftly modern man will fall into barbaric ways.

Recall the Rodney King riots. At first they were about police/legal system abuse, then quickly decayed into a looting/destruction of property free for all. And the government/police where still around and unable to do anything to stop it. It just ran it's course.

Then look at the after math of Katrina, and the Haiti devastation. How people waited for government help, and died waiting. It doesn't seem to take much to have a near total break down.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
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Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to Spice300
This series is reminding me of two books I read last year.
First was Directive 51, second was Daybreak zero. Both written by John Barnes.

The short of it is:
Tree huggers spread a nano virus. The virus eats anything that contains oil. So, rubber, oil, fuel, crumbles apart.

The second part is that a Chinese defense system [It was a secret weapon base] on the moon. The base fires missiles at anything that transmits a radio signal.
So radio communications are basically stopped.

So now you have the USA basically thrown back to the days of horse and buggy.
Though electric power can still be generated, and fuel can be used [as long as the nano virus can be kept away from it].

Granted they are over simplifying things for television.

*edit* Nice job spice.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to darcilicious
Well at least we know why they (the militia) want the otherwise useless brother,…..

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to Octavean
You make good points too about the U.S. military. It is questionable about who would win the ensuing battles. I suspect the militias are partly composed of former U.S. military personnel and in fact the Monroe Militia is led to two former sergeants .

I suspect the U.S. military would have some difficulty staying together. When the electrical machines stop working, the banking system halts and everyone's bank accounts and credit cards become worthless. The centralized federal government can not pay its soldiers including the colonels or generals who command the bases. The base commanders might be able to pay their troop with food while the supplies last. After a few years, they will have to secure other food sources causing them to scavenge and steal.

There are other needs besides food which have been mentioned in some of the episodes already. All of their vehicles and electronic gadgets that they have grown dependent upon become useless. The officers must revert to tactics using riflemen, knives, flamethrowers, hand grenades and similar weapons that do not use electricity. They lose their technological edge making it harder for them to defeat a mob of civilians. When these weapons are used up, there are no replacements because no one is manufacturing them anymore. If they were heating their buildings with electricity or natural gas, then those methods halt forcing them to revert to blankets and wood. But there is not enough wood, manual saws, fireplaces, wood stoves nor time to prepare firewood to keep everyone warm and their food cooked. It was mentioned in e1s04 The Plague Dogs that tall ships (i.e. wooden sailing ships) were destroyed in battle or dismantled for firewood . Military units that are stationed in cold climates might abandon their bases in search of warmer regions creating conflicts for limited resources, such as food and heating fuel, as they enter someone else's territory. When there is not enough resources for everyone, including the ones with weapons, fighting erupts. The fighting kills, destroys and consumes dragging everyone down.

There is an issue of morale. The soldiers have family. Some of their marital families are living on the military base with them and others in the nearby town. In other cases the soldiers are young single people who might be sending money back to their parental families spread through out the country. When the monetary system collapses from a lack of functioning electrical devices, their ability to support their distant families ends and they worry. They see that law and order has broken down and their base commander only has control of his immediate region. If they can get far enough away or go AWOL when the commander is preoccupied (like during a battle), then he will not pursue them and with communications down, can not report them. In fact one of Miles' flashbacks showed exactly that: after 6 months of waiting for orders that would never arrive, Miles and Monroe went AWOL by walking away from their military base in search of Miles' brother .


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
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Mentor, OH
kudos:1
I can see that. As large as the military has grown, it would be very difficult to get it reorganized. I think the Navy has an edge on the other branches though. They might still use the "mirror" things [I dunno what they are called] to communicate between ships.
All they'd have to do is train a signal corps and have them in areas where they could flash signals at each other. Granted that would be a bad thing to do in enemy territory as the flashing light will give you location away. Hence you'd return to runners/horseback messengers.

i think the pony express could carry a letter cross country in about a week.
Still a long time compared with telephone/telegraph.

Thanks to the mention of Tall ships. I just had a flash of submarines turning into steel coffins, Aircraft carriers nothing more then floating grave yards.
All the freighters out on the ocean with no power, just drifting at the whim of the wind and currents.

--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to darcilicious
I just remembered about the nuclear power reactors in the aircraft carriers, submarines and onshore. If the electric water pumps and control system suddenly stopped working, some of the reactors that were operating when the power stopped working would melt down. There would be dozens and perhaps hundreds of disasters like in Fukushima, Japan. I am not sure if the naval reactors would melt down.

Yes, the naval vessels that are out at sea would be awful places unless they could devise sails or oars.

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to Snakeoil
The Pony Express was actually about 10 days between California and Missouri.

Also of note: semaphore lines (optical telegraphs):
»itotd.com/articles/527/optical-telegraphs/

And don't forget carrier pigeons. That's how Reuters got started....


Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to darcilicious
Looks like Revolution will be a full season. NBC ordered nine more episodes for this season.

Revolution has been a solid performer for the network on Monday nights, debuting to 11.7 million and a 4.1 rating in the adults-18-to-49 demographic, the biggest drama premiere since 2009. The J.J. Abrams-produced series, which follows a group of survivors 15 years after the power went out all over the globe, has consistently retained The Voice's lead-in, with its most recent airing drawing 8.4 million viewers and a 3.2 on Monday.

»www.tvguide.com/News/NBC-GoOn-Ne···140.aspx
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
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Dupont, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to darcilicious

New World Order
First people have asked about the current map of the world/US. We got a look last night of at least the new map of the US. Kinda of interesting. I guess I assumed that the Monroe Republic wouldn't be any bigger than a typical state.

So do you think the one 'country', Wasteland, is actually a country or just a wasteland now that no one claims. Seems like an odd name for a country.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
reply to darcilicious
Surprised Canada and Mexico aren't partially listed in the map, its not like that disappeared overnight.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Voxxjin
An odd name indeed,….

If it were disputed area it should be named as such.

Areas omitted from the map may simply be unknown. Without communication its difficult to know the political and topographical landscape of further off regions.

Unclaimed land would be a good place for rebels to mass or hide their numbers. Or it could also be a good place to launch attacks regardless of affiliation.


Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium
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Dupont, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to PhoenixDown
said by PhoenixDown:

Surprised Canada and Mexico aren't partially listed in the map, its not like that disappeared overnight.

Well looking at the map, it appears that parts of canada and mexico have been acquired. California seems to have expanded into baja california and up into british columbia. Wastelands (if that is a country has expanded into somora and chihuahua. Texas expanded into the mexican states below it. And the Monroe republic took new brunswick and nova scotia. Plains nations only went so far as to take winnepeg and regina. Still I gotta say the shape of Wastelands is kinda odd from utah north. But I am surprised Monroe's map doesn't show more of canada. I would think it would since it does border them.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war