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Octavean
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join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
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reply to darcilicious

Re: Revolution (NBC, Sept 17)

Well at least we know why they (the militia) want the otherwise useless brother,…..

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to Octavean
You make good points too about the U.S. military. It is questionable about who would win the ensuing battles. I suspect the militias are partly composed of former U.S. military personnel and in fact the Monroe Militia is led to two former sergeants .

I suspect the U.S. military would have some difficulty staying together. When the electrical machines stop working, the banking system halts and everyone's bank accounts and credit cards become worthless. The centralized federal government can not pay its soldiers including the colonels or generals who command the bases. The base commanders might be able to pay their troop with food while the supplies last. After a few years, they will have to secure other food sources causing them to scavenge and steal.

There are other needs besides food which have been mentioned in some of the episodes already. All of their vehicles and electronic gadgets that they have grown dependent upon become useless. The officers must revert to tactics using riflemen, knives, flamethrowers, hand grenades and similar weapons that do not use electricity. They lose their technological edge making it harder for them to defeat a mob of civilians. When these weapons are used up, there are no replacements because no one is manufacturing them anymore. If they were heating their buildings with electricity or natural gas, then those methods halt forcing them to revert to blankets and wood. But there is not enough wood, manual saws, fireplaces, wood stoves nor time to prepare firewood to keep everyone warm and their food cooked. It was mentioned in e1s04 The Plague Dogs that tall ships (i.e. wooden sailing ships) were destroyed in battle or dismantled for firewood . Military units that are stationed in cold climates might abandon their bases in search of warmer regions creating conflicts for limited resources, such as food and heating fuel, as they enter someone else's territory. When there is not enough resources for everyone, including the ones with weapons, fighting erupts. The fighting kills, destroys and consumes dragging everyone down.

There is an issue of morale. The soldiers have family. Some of their marital families are living on the military base with them and others in the nearby town. In other cases the soldiers are young single people who might be sending money back to their parental families spread through out the country. When the monetary system collapses from a lack of functioning electrical devices, their ability to support their distant families ends and they worry. They see that law and order has broken down and their base commander only has control of his immediate region. If they can get far enough away or go AWOL when the commander is preoccupied (like during a battle), then he will not pursue them and with communications down, can not report them. In fact one of Miles' flashbacks showed exactly that: after 6 months of waiting for orders that would never arrive, Miles and Monroe went AWOL by walking away from their military base in search of Miles' brother .


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
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Mentor, OH
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I can see that. As large as the military has grown, it would be very difficult to get it reorganized. I think the Navy has an edge on the other branches though. They might still use the "mirror" things [I dunno what they are called] to communicate between ships.
All they'd have to do is train a signal corps and have them in areas where they could flash signals at each other. Granted that would be a bad thing to do in enemy territory as the flashing light will give you location away. Hence you'd return to runners/horseback messengers.

i think the pony express could carry a letter cross country in about a week.
Still a long time compared with telephone/telegraph.

Thanks to the mention of Tall ships. I just had a flash of submarines turning into steel coffins, Aircraft carriers nothing more then floating grave yards.
All the freighters out on the ocean with no power, just drifting at the whim of the wind and currents.

--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to darcilicious
I just remembered about the nuclear power reactors in the aircraft carriers, submarines and onshore. If the electric water pumps and control system suddenly stopped working, some of the reactors that were operating when the power stopped working would melt down. There would be dozens and perhaps hundreds of disasters like in Fukushima, Japan. I am not sure if the naval reactors would melt down.

Yes, the naval vessels that are out at sea would be awful places unless they could devise sails or oars.

PX Eliezer70
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reply to Snakeoil
The Pony Express was actually about 10 days between California and Missouri.

Also of note: semaphore lines (optical telegraphs):
»itotd.com/articles/527/optical-telegraphs/

And don't forget carrier pigeons. That's how Reuters got started....


Voxxjin
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reply to darcilicious
Looks like Revolution will be a full season. NBC ordered nine more episodes for this season.

Revolution has been a solid performer for the network on Monday nights, debuting to 11.7 million and a 4.1 rating in the adults-18-to-49 demographic, the biggest drama premiere since 2009. The J.J. Abrams-produced series, which follows a group of survivors 15 years after the power went out all over the globe, has consistently retained The Voice's lead-in, with its most recent airing drawing 8.4 million viewers and a 3.2 on Monday.

»www.tvguide.com/News/NBC-GoOn-Ne···140.aspx
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Voxxjin
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reply to darcilicious

New World Order
First people have asked about the current map of the world/US. We got a look last night of at least the new map of the US. Kinda of interesting. I guess I assumed that the Monroe Republic wouldn't be any bigger than a typical state.

So do you think the one 'country', Wasteland, is actually a country or just a wasteland now that no one claims. Seems like an odd name for a country.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
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reply to darcilicious
Surprised Canada and Mexico aren't partially listed in the map, its not like that disappeared overnight.


Octavean
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reply to Voxxjin
An odd name indeed,….

If it were disputed area it should be named as such.

Areas omitted from the map may simply be unknown. Without communication its difficult to know the political and topographical landscape of further off regions.

Unclaimed land would be a good place for rebels to mass or hide their numbers. Or it could also be a good place to launch attacks regardless of affiliation.


Voxxjin
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reply to PhoenixDown
said by PhoenixDown:

Surprised Canada and Mexico aren't partially listed in the map, its not like that disappeared overnight.

Well looking at the map, it appears that parts of canada and mexico have been acquired. California seems to have expanded into baja california and up into british columbia. Wastelands (if that is a country has expanded into somora and chihuahua. Texas expanded into the mexican states below it. And the Monroe republic took new brunswick and nova scotia. Plains nations only went so far as to take winnepeg and regina. Still I gotta say the shape of Wastelands is kinda odd from utah north. But I am surprised Monroe's map doesn't show more of canada. I would think it would since it does border them.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


TwiztedZero
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reply to PhoenixDown
said by PhoenixDown:

Surprised Canada and Mexico aren't partially listed in the map, its not like that disappeared overnight.

Typical "United States", myoptic view of the world. They do this ALL the time in all sorts of Media, as if their neighbor to the north has never existed. IMHO that shows a huge lack of respect on their end. Then again I'm Canadian so apoligies If I'm biased against a country full of biases, its a real shame actually.

--
You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect.
Twitter:Merv Chat:irc.teksavvy.ca


Octavean
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said by TwiztedZero:

said by PhoenixDown:

Surprised Canada and Mexico aren't partially listed in the map, its not like that disappeared overnight.

Typical "United States", myoptic view of the world. They do this ALL the time in all sorts of Media, as if their neighbor to the north has never existed. IMHO that shows a huge lack of respect on their end. Then again I'm Canadian so apoligies If I'm biased against a country full of biases, its a real shame actually.

With all due respect a lot of Canadian shows presuppose, suggest or explicitly state that the events take place in the USA. It’s a common stage for theatrics like outer space is to scifi (not all encompassing but significant). I do find it refreshing when we see otherwise though. I also find it amusing to see UK shows do something similar like Doctor Who and Torchwood (though Miracle day supposedly took place in the USA at least in part and so too did a recent season of Dr Who).

As an example, I recall seeing the Washington monument in many episodes of Earth Final Conflict. However, a great deal of travel did take place in the show. I recall one episode where I thought they were supposed to be in the USA but in the background on a building you could make out a Canadian flag. It was amusing to say the least,...


Voxxjin
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reply to TwiztedZero
said by TwiztedZero:

Typical "United States", myoptic view of the world. They do this ALL the time in all sorts of Media, as if their neighbor to the north has never existed. IMHO that shows a huge lack of respect on their end. Then again I'm Canadian so apoligies If I'm biased against a country full of biases, its a real shame actually.

I can only assume that they are playing to their targeted audience. It wouldn't surprise me if 40% of Americans couldn't find Canada on a map
Andway like I mentioned in an earlier post, I am surprised Monroe's map doesn't show more of canada or the new countries of canada esp since they are his northern border.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Octavean
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I wonder if early continental US maps gave due notice of native American regions with any noteworthy detail? Probably some but not necessarily all, naturally. One would think that the established regions also have military resources to maintain their respective sovereign nations. If the military might isn’t there then they may not give the claim to the regain any real consideration.

So in other words they may have information that there is a “New Republic of Mexico”, for example, and some notion of their cited boundaries. However, if they also have no means of defense (or an inferior defense force) how long would such a nation exist especially if you and other developing commonwealths have designs on the area?

These people are living in a fictional world where might makes right.

PX Eliezer70
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reply to Voxxjin
On January 1, 1984, when the US Government broke up the Bell System, it was split into these regional companies....

The company US West ended up being the least successful, and in terms of its history, it actually become a corporate Wasteland.


DrStrange
Technically feasible
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You left out Southern New England Telephone.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_N···elephone

PX Eliezer70
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SNET was not part of the 1984 breakup, and was never considered an RBOC.

It was bought years later by SBC which eventually became the reborn AT&T.

PX Eliezer70
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reply to DrStrange
Back to SF and fantasy, in 1987 ABC-TV had a miniseries called [Amerika] in which the Soviets and their allies had taken over the USA. The US government gave in to avoid a devastating war.

The Soviets divided up the US into several regions, with the intent that they would become separate (and weak) nations.

The story focused on the Central region [Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska] which became the country of Heartland.

A few similarities....

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to darcilicious
Here is a larger version of the map although I still can not quite read the names of the cities. "Wasteland" is likely the name Monroe assigned to that area.

For all those people criticizing the show for a lack of steam engines, you are now silenced. The others were destroyed during battle leaving relics to be salvaged before someone destroys them too . Constant conflict drags everyone down.

I noticed Nora put a rather small amount of explosive in the log. If it was even powerful enough, it would barely rupture the boiler and completely fail to derail the train. If the writers had any sense, they would have made the bomb bigger or let those two idiots, Miles and Charlie, fail to stop the bomb which destroys the boiler of the steam engine causing the train to roll to a stop. Nora being stabbed unnecessarily and watching those two fools go to all that trouble to stop the weak mini-bomb would have been hilarious. The plans of the Monroe Republic would have suffered another setback. The protagonists are fools, their victories are unbelievable, and the rebels are weak


Voxxjin
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curious as to the differences between the cities listed in red and the ones in black.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war

Sinbad Sam

join:2001-11-13
Arlington, TX
reply to darcilicious
Some nits to pick...
Railroad roadway not maintained for 17 years....

Modern rail roadways require large amounts of technical maintenance today by machines/electronics. Using a rail roadway that had not been maintained for 17 years, would mean derailment just when it would happen. Also the bridges also require the same as rail roadways.

Where they did get that locomotive with out using a rail roadway..not something you can get 100 men to pull along like a Helicopter in the woods.

Then the logistics for the locomotive ie fuel(wood) and water.


rlt2562
The Wizard of Speed and Time
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reply to darcilicious
The ISS was the cause of the blackout. Unfortunately, they're all dead.

No proof, just felt like tossing it out there.
--
You may say I'm a Dreamer.... But I'm not the only one.....


Octavean
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reply to Spice300
said by Spice300:

I noticed Nora put a rather small amount of explosive in the log. If it was even powerful enough, it would barely rupture the boiler and completely fail to derail the train. If the writers had any sense, they would have made the bomb bigger or let those two idiots, Miles and Charlie, fail to stop the bomb which destroys the boiler of the steam engine causing the train to roll to a stop. Nora being stabbed unnecessarily and watching those two fools go to all that trouble to stop the weak mini-bomb would have been hilarious. The plans of the Monroe Republic would have suffered another setback. The protagonists are fools, their victories are unbelievable, and the rebels are weak

I completely agree.

The makeshift explosive device was small and of questionable potency. I suspect it would have only damaged the steam engine with little or no collateral damage. The explosive device looked to only be a danger to the engineer (locomotive driver) feeding the fire of the boiler,….and anyone else fool enough to get close.

An explosive device really wasn’t necessary at all though. They knew in advance of the departure time which timetable was stepped up due to their own clumsy interference. They could have ridden on ahead on horseback or even walked on ahead with the intention of sabotaging the track. In fact if their explosive devise was as powerful as they seemed to think it was they could have blown the tracks leaving twisted rails and a crater the locomotive couldn’t have negotiated. The added benefit there is that they could be sure that no one else was around to be injured or killed by the blast.


Still I found some entertainment value in the show in spite of its shortcomings.

PX Eliezer70
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reply to Sinbad Sam
said by Sinbad Sam:

Some nits to pick...
Railroad roadway not maintained for 17 years....

Then the logistics for the locomotive ie fuel(wood) and water.

Well the wood and water, what's the problem with that? Trains ran across the continent when there was no electricity other than the telegraph.

As for the maintenance, the Monroe Army could have been working on fixing up the tracks for a long while. And they seem to have plenty of slave labor to do it....

Good points, though.


Voxxjin
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reply to Octavean
It actually would have been easier I think to derail the train. Just pick a section of track on a curve and remove the stakes/bolts from the outer rail. (probably even more effective if the train is on a downhill grade during the curve). Depending upon the track you may have to unbolt the fishplates too.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war

Sinbad Sam

join:2001-11-13
Arlington, TX
reply to PX Eliezer70
As for the Monro Army becoming Gandy Dancers to maintain the rail roadway...since there are currently no Gandy Dancers to instruct them on the "correct" way to do the work...They would have to learn the "hard way". that would mean lots of train wrecks, before they get a clue.

Yes long ago train logistics ie fuel and water, but those supply way stations are long gone before the power went away.


Octavean
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reply to Voxxjin
I agree. Which is what I was suggesting by saying they didn’t need an explosive device but they would certainly need tools and manpower to go that route. I don’t know much about trains though.

When I was in the military my MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) was initially 12B Combat Engineer. This was basically construction and demolition of roads and bridges as well as landmine warfare. Construction mostly consisted of prefabricated constructs that needed assembly. Demolition involves explosive devices like a Bangalore torpedo, C4, blasting caps, det-cord, fuses and so on.

So naturally my first inclination would be to blow $#!% up. Its easy and fast not to mention they had access to what they needed. The train was presumably protected but the rails weren’t so you go with the easiest target in the allotted time you have. Disassembling the railing works but its much harder work and time consuming.

Also, for what its worth, when they were on the train they presumably could have just disconnected the engine from the trailing cars. Leaving them stranded possibly without horses.

PX Eliezer70
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reply to Voxxjin
said by Voxxjin:

It actually would have been easier I think to derail the train.

True, but not as dramatic for the plot.

Less danger of that boy getting blown up....


capecoddah

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1 recommendation

reply to Octavean
said by Octavean:

But when it comes down to it, sometimes you have to just suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the hot chick with the bow and arrow,…..

She has become exponentially annoying.

Just sayin'...


Octavean
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said by capecoddah:

said by Octavean:

But when it comes down to it, sometimes you have to just suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the hot chick with the bow and arrow,…..

She has become exponentially annoying.

Just sayin'...

While I don’t totally disagree with your assessment. I’m not sure about the math here. For example ones point of view with respect to this subject could depend where you are on the graph. I suspect there is an inflection point further ahead at which point the annoying to hotness dynamic does indeed increase exponentially with hotness effectively being an asymptote. In other words hotness undergoes no significant change for a very large increase in annoyance.

However, some can ignore the annoying factor in favor of hotness because to some its something of an art form,…..

This also applies to bat $#!t crazy vs. hotness,…..

And a whole host of others such as bad spending habits vs. hotness, massive debt vs. hotness, annoying voice vs. hotness, bad temper vs. hotness, paranoia vs. hotness and so on,….

But you know,…

Just saying,…