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Grail Knight
Qui audet adipiscitur
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join:2003-05-31
Valhalla
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reply to SixOfNine

Re: Revolution (NBC, Sept 17)

That was quite good.
I gave up on this show after the second episode.
--
"Paranoia, the destroyer"


PX Eliezer7
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reply to Snakeoil

said by Snakeoil:

They must forget, this is America, not China. The only people to use a bike in the good old USA are kids....

Don't forget Lance Armstrong!


Snakeoil
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But only if he dopes.


PX Eliezer7
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reply to darcilicious

Being an American is a powerful, powerful thing.

Why would these militia states spend so much energy fighting the concept, rather than using it to their own advantage?

What point to shooting someone who has a US flag?

Why not instead [use] the flag to support your own legitimacy?

THIS is a demonstration that the show is dumbed down for a Joe Sixpack audience, rather than an intelligent audience that could understand such subtle points.

Example:

In Robert Heinlein's important short story "Coventry" (part of the "Revolt in 2100" collection), the United States is divided into several separate political entities. But each of them claim to be the TRUE American government.



Omega
Displaced Ohioan
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reply to darcilicious

This thread has made me glad I decided to not watch this show.
--
What smells like blue?



Packeteers
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reply to PX Eliezer7

PX, you forget that the USA evolved out of 13 pre-electricity colonies who united to fight a foreign power, and later continued to cooperate for economic reasons where the slavery and later the industrial revolution helps solidify such ties. in "revolution" the USA devolved when without electricity it's organization and laws and vast industry became meaningless, most of the urban population starved and murdered each other, and animosity towards any USA coherency grew as people sought the security and cooperation of a militia. it's makes sense that such militias would rather try to take each others human talents and natural resources then cooperate in any meaningful way. people also are probably suspicious of anything USA as an event such as electricity unable to function at all world wide means some unknown science and organization is preventing it from working and the USA was unable to stop it or years later restore it.


PX Eliezer7
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1 edit

said by Packeteers:

PX, you forget that....

You raise very good points.

Still, we have such a strong identity as Americans.

That in large part was what the Civil War was about: Were we a hodgepodge of states, or a country.

Robert E. Lee was on the wrong side of history for thinking he was primarily a Virginian rather than primarily an American. Although a great man in many ways, he could not overcome his belief in that regard despite his long service in the [United States] Army.

But with rare exception (Texas) today we think of ourselves as Americans, not as Pennsylvanians or Californians.

My point is that the militias created much more work for themselves by wanting to destroy the concept of America, instead of embracing it (however falsely and hypocritically).

I think of David Brin's fine book "The Postman" which unfortunately lost something in translation to a Hollywood movie.... Still, the people desperately wanted to believe.

We are in it together. Civilization means something. IAAMOAC

-- David Brin, December 1998

Sinbad Sam

join:2001-11-13
Arlington, TX
reply to Spice300

Yes there may be locomotives in easy to get at locations....but since today there are no Gandy Dancers still alive, that mean the Monroe Army/"Volunteers" would have to learn the "hard way" about working the rails and road bed, that means lots of train wrecks reducing the number of locomotives intact/accessible.

How many Locomotive Boilermakers were alive at the "event" , so again learning how to be one, again the "hard way" means less intact locomotive engines.

Merely because it was done in the last century does not mean current century persons can just go and build it.

On the Texas State Capital Building was a 3000 pound cast metal statue, that during this century's renovations required a heavy left helicopter to remove the statue. No one has been able to "figure" out how it was placed there in the first place. aka knowledge lost.

I worked with a modern day blacksmith, his prize possession is a large anvil of cast iron with a 4 inch thick plate of steel forge welded into the cast iron from the last century. The company that made it is still in business but the knowledge to make such a piece is gone.


PX Eliezer7
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said by Sinbad Sam:

On the Texas State Capital Building was a 3000 pound cast metal statue, that during this century's renovations required a heavy left helicopter to remove the statue. No one has been able to "figure" out how it was placed there in the first place. aka knowledge lost.

Fascinating story. You'd think there would be a young construction worker from the time who passed the story down through his family to a grandchild or great-grandchild....

And as a general principle, yes, knowledge is lost.

Even basic things today are being lost---people skilled in Morse code (no longer required by the FCC for amateur radio licenses aka ham radio), how to drive manual transmission cars, etc....


capecoddah

join:2005-03-18
Yarmouth Port, MA
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reply to Octavean

said by Octavean:

said by capecoddah:

said by Octavean:

But when it comes down to it, sometimes you have to just suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the hot chick with the bow and arrow,…..

She has become exponentially annoying.

Just sayin'...

While I don’t totally disagree with your assessment. I’m not sure about the math here. For example ones point of view with respect to this subject could depend where you are on the graph. I suspect there is an inflection point further ahead at which point the annoying to hotness dynamic does indeed increase exponentially with hotness effectively being an asymptote. In other words hotness undergoes no significant change for a very large increase in annoyance.

However, some can ignore the annoying factor in favor of hotness because to some its something of an art form,…..

This also applies to bat $#!t crazy vs. hotness,…..

And a whole host of others such as bad spending habits vs. hotness, massive debt vs. hotness, annoying voice vs. hotness, bad temper vs. hotness, paranoia vs. hotness and so on,….

But you know,…

Just saying,…

Teen angst.
"Twisted her ankle" every episode.
Star Trek would give her a red shirt and make her go away.
Don't ___________________in crazy.

Spice300
Premium
join:2006-01-10
reply to Sinbad Sam

Construct a fixed tower crane to lift the statute over the dome. The building was probably constructed using a crane. Another option is two fixed towers with a steel cable between them. The skycrane was probably the less expensive option for Texas' renovation. Even the Romans had cranes hundreds of years ago.

As for Gandy Dancers it is exhausting labor but not technically difficult to repair rail tracks. A rail track is constructed from creosoted wooded railroad ties embedded in gravel with steel tracks nailed to them. They would need some manual tools, but certainly some could be found in a rail depot or farmer's barn. It is certainly within the capability of the Monroe Militia to maintain rail tracks.

said by PX Eliezer7:

Why would these militia states spend so much energy fighting the concept, rather than using it to their own advantage?

Both Miles and Monroe are deserters from the U.S. Army or Marines. Neither of them have any respect for their base commander who waited and waited for orders that never arrived while civilization fell apart. Miles originally wanted to help people while Monroe was being loyal to his best friend by accompanying him. Monroe is obviously a megalomaniac who has been victorious over the opposition whether they were American loyalists or otherwise. He is not going to accept elections when there is no one compelling him. He is the top warlord in the northeast. Consider that the U.S. government might not be popular because its police and soldiers did not help when its citizens were starving or stole food and tools. So far the viewers have only been shown the state-of-affairs within the Monroe Republic. Attitudes might be different in other regions.

Sinbad Sam

join:2001-11-13
Arlington, TX

Here take a look at the photos here look down towards the bottom of the web page...the image of the 3000 pound statue and in the background the almost finished Texas Capital Building.
»www.texasescapes.com/MikeCoxTexa···Dome.htm
During the restoration many highly competent engineers/architects looked at some of what you said what could have been done and ruled it out.

The job of Gandy Dancer was more than just exhausting labor but also technical in several aspects. To me your are over simplifying, or are unfamiliar with the expertise of Gandy Dancers.

Merely because I pick up a brick masons tools does not mean I can construct a brick multistory building.

Again the Monroe Army could eventually learn to be a passable group of Gandy Dancers but only after many years of failures and train wrecks due to the lack of knowledge/experience in doing track maintenance.


PX Eliezer7
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said by Sinbad Sam:

Here take a look at the photos here look down towards the bottom of the web page...the image of the 3000 pound statue and in the background the almost finished Texas Capital Building.
»www.texasescapes.com/MikeCoxTexa···Dome.htm

That story itself is worth a look, too!


Voxxjin
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Some stories about the statue:
»www.texasescapes.com/AustinTexas···erty.htm
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Spice300
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join:2006-01-10

2 edits
reply to Sinbad Sam

In the photo with the Goddess of Liberty on the ground, there is a tower behind the capitol building. There is probably another one out of the view of the photo between which cables were stretched. Hoist the statue up to the cables then roll it along the cables until it is over the dome. Attach guy wires to the towers to help them support the weight of the statue. Your attitude about no one knowing how it was installed sounds like an episode of In Search Of: The Castle of Secrets: The Saga of the Coral Castle hosted by Leonard Nimoy in which he was pretending there was some miracle about how a lone man constructed a stone castle. Pulleys and cables are adequate.

It is likely some railroad construction people would survive to relate their knowledge about specifications. It is a matter of getting the manual tools (perhaps making some) and finding some muscle to operate them. The foreman makes sure the work is done properly. Gandy Dancers were typically low paid immigrants. Today they would be minimum wage workers. In Revolution they would probably be prisoners doing slave labor.



SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX
reply to Voxxjin

said by Voxxjin:

So do you think the one 'country', Wasteland, is actually a country or just a wasteland now that no one claims. Seems like an odd name for a country.

It seems to me wasteland is what it says it is. A wasteland. No electricity means no air conditioning. A lot of that territory I think I would be unbearable in the warmer months. Maybe the northern area is based on the opposite (too cold or rugged?). Anyway that was my theory.

In regards to rail maintenance there is a good chance that train only went from that city to the Monroe Capitol (and any points in between). Maintaining a single rail line may be a lot easier than a whole network.


Packeteers
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wasteland coincides with land that is NOT farm-able, or NOT relatively flat with a natural water.
this older map is more accurate in terms of having fewer farms dependent on recent technologies.




Omega
Displaced Ohioan
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reply to SRFireside

said by SRFireside:

said by Voxxjin:

So do you think the one 'country', Wasteland, is actually a country or just a wasteland now that no one claims. Seems like an odd name for a country.

It seems to me wasteland is what it says it is. A wasteland. No electricity means no air conditioning. A lot of that territory I think I would be unbearable in the warmer months. Maybe the northern area is based on the opposite (too cold or rugged?). Anyway that was my theory.

Nearly every part of North America was occupied by humans well before electricity and air conditioning became common.
--
What smells like blue?

PX Eliezer7
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said by Omega:

Nearly every part of North America was occupied by humans well before electricity and air conditioning became common.

The oldtime Native Americans were acclimated to such a life from childhood.

Also, there are no more buffalo herds (etc) to hunt....


Snakeoil
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reply to SRFireside

said by SRFireside:

said by Voxxjin:

So do you think the one 'country', Wasteland, is actually a country or just a wasteland now that no one claims. Seems like an odd name for a country.

It seems to me wasteland is what it says it is. A wasteland. No electricity means no air conditioning. A lot of that territory I think I would be unbearable in the warmer months. Maybe the northern area is based on the opposite (too cold or rugged?). Anyway that was my theory.

In regards to rail maintenance there is a good chance that train only went from that city to the Monroe Capitol (and any points in between). Maintaining a single rail line may be a lot easier than a whole network.

When I hear wasteland, I think of a nuclear, biological event that prevents people from living there. Or maybe a thermal event like volcanoes.

No electricity isn't a big deal. Lack of water could be a deal breaker for a large population, but as seen in real life, there are people that live and thrive in the deserts regions, as well as in the cold regions.

Would the sudden loss of electrical power prevent a nuke plant from melting down?
Don't nuke plants run off of the energy they produce? Which begs the question: Just what was "the event" that was able to kill all power production.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


Snakeoil
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reply to PX Eliezer7

Ted Turner would beg to differ. He has the largest buffalo ranch in the USA.
Theres plenty of Buffalo, heck, there more then enough white tail deer.

So if people didn't have buffalo to hunt, they'd hunt deer.

Failing that they could always breed rabbits and rats. I just finished a book that took place after the world ended. One group of survivors released they were running outta food, and they knew rats breed fast, require little effort. So they caught some wild rats, bred them for a couple of generations [to clean them up, wild rats have a load of pests]. Then they started harvesting and grinding the rats up into rat patties.
They would have used rabbits, but compared to rats, rabbits have a limited specific food requirement. Where as rats seem to thrive off of what ever we humans throw away.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



Snakeoil
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reply to darcilicious

I happy that NBC is airing repeats of the show on Saturday. I think that has helped the show. As Saturday is typically a dead day for programming.



Octavean
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reply to darcilicious

I'm in NYC, so due to Sandy hitting there wasn't much on the local channels other then news coverage. We got lucky though no real problems,........

Anyway I noticed that a new episode aired on the 29th but I have yet to see it:

"Sex and Drugs" Air Date: 10/29/12

Promising title though,.....



Alpha Phoenix
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said by Octavean:

Anyway I noticed that a new episode aired on the 29th but I have yet to see it:

"Sex and Drugs" Air Date: 10/29/12

Promising title though,.....

It's not what you think. Don't be fooled. Lol
--
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo

Light Guy

join:2006-05-12
Somerville, NJ
reply to Octavean

They showed it on NBC NY Nonstop last night and I think it will air this Thursday at 8pm on NBC and is also available On Demand



Packeteers
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yeah, it's already on torrent and this episode does little to move the main story line along which i found and odd waste for a series that probably won't survive it's first year.



Voxxjin
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said by Packeteers:

this episode does little to move the main story line along

Yeah didn't advance the main story much. But you do learn more about Aaron and his back story and his choices that lead him to this episode.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Octavean
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reply to SixOfNine

LOL, he pulled a Lando Calrissian,....



Alcohol
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reply to Voxxjin

said by Voxxjin:

said by Packeteers:

this episode does little to move the main story line along

Yeah didn't advance the main story much. But you do learn more about Aaron and his back story and his choices that lead him to this episode.

I don't get it. Why didn't he stay with the click and be in the same group? Just cause he couldn't protect her didn't mean he had to leave.
--
I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock.


Voxxjin
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said by Alcohol:

I don't get it. Why didn't he stay with the click and be in the same group? Just cause he couldn't protect her didn't mean he had to leave.

I think he felt like a loser and probably just kept beting himself up with the fact he couldn't do anything. Probably felt it was better for her (and the group) if he left. That's how I see it. Why he didn't try to learn or train from another guy, idk.

While he really bugged me the first few episodes, I find myself liking him more and more. He is growing a spine. And he is making some amusing remarks such as the comment about a pack of hairless ewoks.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war