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Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2

Leaking Anti-Freeze Costs $900 To Fix?

My minivan was leaking anti-freeze badly and I took it to a mechanic, he claims it's not only the radiator leaking but some "engine intake" that's under the engine, anyways the price tag is $900. I said "Yes" because it's the cheapeest option instead of buying another vehicle and the hassle of changing plates/insurance and 2 weeks of looking for another vehicle.

I don't think he's lying about the double problem because my minivan always leaked a little bit of antifreeze like forever but now suddenly it just empties it all of a sudden. Does the price seem reasonable?


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4
Intake manifold gasket, I would assume, is what he is talking about. Between the labor, and cost of the gasket and radiator and other miscellaneous parts, that price could be about right.

JonRup

join:2008-07-20
Hilliard, OH

1 edit
reply to Xstar_Lumini
That's what my Chevy Malibu did. Leaked a insignificant amount (couple drops a day), and after 2 years it got to be more and more, until the point where it would empty itself in about an hour. Ended up being the lower intake manifold.

$1000 to replace gasket + water pump

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA

1 edit
reply to Xstar_Lumini
That is cheap, isn't it a Chevy Venture minivan?
Yes it is usually the lower intake gasket on that series GM engine.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Xstar_Lumini
Yup to what everone else says. $900 is about right for the LIM at the dealership although you might shop around. Any repair shop should be able to do it and will have done numerous repairs prior. If you are mechanically inclined, it's not a hard repair just time consuming to get everything out and back in.


Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Xstar_Lumini
Thanks guys, theres actually a class action lawsuit against GM for their crappy plastic gasket that ends up costing owners of Chevy Ventures huge repair bills.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4
You should sign up, you might get a buck or two back (while the lawyers get millions).

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:

Thanks guys, theres actually a class action lawsuit against GM for their crappy plastic gasket that ends up costing owners of Chevy Ventures huge repair bills.

That would be the "old" GM, which has no value as it took all the liabilities from the "new" GM in the government sponsored bankruptcy


M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1
reply to Xstar_Lumini
quote:
some "engine intake"
LOL!

And paying only $900 makes you lucky. Better keep your bill fold tight around teen age girls.

billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2
reply to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:

My minivan was leaking anti-freeze badly and I took it to a mechanic, he claims it's not only the radiator leaking but some "engine intake" that's under the engine, anyways the price tag is $900. I said "Yes" because it's the cheapeest option instead of buying another vehicle and the hassle of changing plates/insurance and 2 weeks of looking for another vehicle.

I don't think he's lying about the double problem because my minivan always leaked a little bit of antifreeze like forever but now suddenly it just empties it all of a sudden. Does the price seem reasonable?

we actually had a coolant leak in our 04 mercury grand marquis(our oil change guy discovered it), from the manifold. Total cost would have been $750-850. I went to O Reilly Auto, bought a $10 can of Bars Leak "Liquid Copper", poured it in the coolant resovior(because it is pressurized), and I haven't had 1 drop of leak in 3 months or so. Even my oil change guy said, " Wow, you got that leak fix didn't you?". Of course, it isn't a permanent fix. But it sure is working good for $10
--
No Victim=No Crime


Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2
said by billydunwood:

we actually had a coolant leak in our 04 mercury grand marquis(our oil change guy discovered it), from the manifold. Total cost would have been $750-850. I went to O Reilly Auto, bought a $10 can of Bars Leak "Liquid Copper", poured it in the coolant resovior(because it is pressurized), and I haven't had 1 drop of leak in 3 months or so. Even my oil change guy said, " Wow, you got that leak fix didn't you?". Of course, it isn't a permanent fix. But it sure is working good for $10

They sell something like that too here at "Canadian Tire" stores, powder aluminum, but as soon as you put antifreeze in your radiator it dissipates and you have the same leak as before, or is the product you are talking about "liquid copper" in reality?


M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1
said by Xstar_Lumini:

said by billydunwood:

we actually had a coolant leak in our 04 mercury grand marquis(our oil change guy discovered it), from the manifold. Total cost would have been $750-850. I went to O Reilly Auto, bought a $10 can of Bars Leak "Liquid Copper", poured it in the coolant resovior(because it is pressurized), and I haven't had 1 drop of leak in 3 months or so. Even my oil change guy said, " Wow, you got that leak fix didn't you?". Of course, it isn't a permanent fix. But it sure is working good for $10

They sell something like that too here at "Canadian Tire" stores, powder aluminum, but as soon as you put antifreeze in your radiator it dissipates and you have the same leak as before, or is the product you are talking about "liquid copper" in reality?

»barsproducts.com/catalog

billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2
reply to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:

said by billydunwood:

we actually had a coolant leak in our 04 mercury grand marquis(our oil change guy discovered it), from the manifold. Total cost would have been $750-850. I went to O Reilly Auto, bought a $10 can of Bars Leak "Liquid Copper", poured it in the coolant resovior(because it is pressurized), and I haven't had 1 drop of leak in 3 months or so. Even my oil change guy said, " Wow, you got that leak fix didn't you?". Of course, it isn't a permanent fix. But it sure is working good for $10

They sell something like that too here at "Canadian Tire" stores, powder aluminum, but as soon as you put antifreeze in your radiator it dissipates and you have the same leak as before, or is the product you are talking about "liquid copper" in reality?

Its not powder, and its thick. It does its job. It just makes your coolant look a bit weird, but I will take that if it does its job plus more!
--
No Victim=No Crime

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
reply to Xstar_Lumini
Stop leak like Bars is a temporary fix and I suggest only trying it once. More doses than that can really screw up the cooling system.

billydunwood

join:2008-04-23
united state
kudos:2
said by PrntRhd:

Stop leak like Bars is a temporary fix and I suggest only trying it once. More doses than that can really screw up the cooling system.

how long would you say it would last, being temporary?
--
No Victim=No Crime


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 recommendation

said by billydunwood:

how long would you say it would last, being temporary?

If you were in the middle of a desert with the leak and your options were to use a can of the stuff to make it to the nearest location to have it repaired, or die, then I might suggest using it. Any other time I wouldn't consider it.


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18

1 recommendation

reply to billydunwood
said by billydunwood:

how long would you say it would last, being temporary?

I've seen Bars Stop Leak last 5+ Years stopping multiple leaks in a radiator core and intake gaskets (it will stop most all water leaks, but not steam leaks above the water line in the radiator or heater cores. The one thing to watch for is overheating. As long as the system is not further stressed by an overheating event the leak repairs are semi-permanent. Desert or not.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to billydunwood
said by billydunwood:

said by PrntRhd:

Stop leak like Bars is a temporary fix and I suggest only trying it once. More doses than that can really screw up the cooling system.

how long would you say it would last, being temporary?

Until it starts leaking again and leaves you overheated somewhere. Exactly until then.


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
said by PrntRhd:

said by billydunwood:

said by PrntRhd:

Stop leak like Bars is a temporary fix and I suggest only trying it once. More doses than that can really screw up the cooling system.

how long would you say it would last, being temporary?

Until it starts leaking again and leaves you overheated somewhere. Exactly until then.

It sounds like you may have little to no actual experience with Bar's Products. They do not make vehicles overheat. I have used them for decades and during my teenage years sold them by the hundreds working in a Jobber Parts Store/Machine Shop.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
I know Bars, just pointing out the possibility of problems if someone uses too much in lieu of a proper fix. There are products much worse than Bars out there for the same purpose.
I have nothing against leak stop products that work. Bars is OK to use, it is non abrasive to water pump impellers etc.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds:

It sounds like you may have little to no actual experience with Bar's Products. They do not make vehicles overheat. I have used them for decades and during my teenage years sold them by the hundreds working in a Jobber Parts Store/Machine Shop.

If a $10 bottle of Bar's fixes the problem, then why wouldn't a dealership use that in lieu of a real repair for warranty work where money (both for parts and labor) is ultimately the concern?

Just because a product is available in an auto parts store, and it might work for an extended period, doesn't make it the best solution to a problem. I've done several 3400 LIM gasket replacements and I would never trust Bars to fix the problem where the gasket was leaking.

IamGimli

join:2004-02-28
Canada
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to guppy_fish
said by guppy_fish:

said by Xstar_Lumini:

Thanks guys, theres actually a class action lawsuit against GM for their crappy plastic gasket that ends up costing owners of Chevy Ventures huge repair bills.

That would be the "old" GM, which has no value as it took all the liabilities from the "new" GM in the government sponsored bankruptcy

The bailout is irrelevant. The class action was settled in 2008 and the claim period expired in April of 2009. To be considered you had to show proof of having the lower intake manifold gasket repaired within the first seven years after Initial Vehicle Delivery (i.e. when it was first sold as new). The maximum amount that could be claimed was $800, but most didn't qualify for that much.

Notice of Proposed Certification and Settlement approval Hearing
GM intake manifold gasket class action

This notice may affect your rights. Please read it carefully.

PURPOSE OF THIS NOTICE
In 2006, seventeen (17) proposed class actions were commenced in Ontario,
Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Quebec, and Saskatchewan alleging, inter alia, that the nylon intake manifold gaskets installed in certain General Motors Corporation and General Motors of Canada Limited (“GM”) vehicles were defective.

A proposed settlement has been reached between the plaintiffs (the individuals who commenced the lawsuit) and GM with respect to the cost of repairs to certain engine gaskets (the “Settlement”). The members of the class affected by the Settlement are generally those who owned or leased certain GM vehicles between the model years 1995 to 2004, and who incurred expenses for certain related repairs (“National Class Members”). Please note that vehicles must be for personal, family, or household use, NOT for commercial or business purposes.

This Notice is to advise all National Class Members of a proposed motion before the Ontario Superior Court of Justice (the “Court”) to certify the class action for settlement purposes and to approve the Settlement, including class counsel fees, and to inform them of their rights as a potential class member.

Complete information regarding the vehicles, the eligible repairs, the proposed motion to certify the class action for settlement purposes and to approve the Settlement can be found at www.gmcanadiansettlement.ca or by contacting the Claims Administrator at 1 866 640 9989.

The proposed Settlement does not constitute any admission of liability by GM which denies the allegations.

Terms of the Proposed Settlement

All National Class Members who submit a proper Claim Form, Proof of Expenditure, and Proof of Ownership before April 30, 2009 will be eligible to receive payment according to the following payment schedule:

(a) For National Class Members who incurred an eligible repair expense within five years of the Date of Initial Vehicle Delivery, an amount equal to the eligible repair expense, up to a maximum of $400;

(b) For National Class Members who incurred an eligible repair expense in the sixth year after the Date of Initial Vehicle Delivery, an amount equal to the eligible repair expense, up to a maximum of $100; and

(c) For National Class Members who incurred an eligible repair expense in the seventh year after the Date of Initial Vehicle Delivery, an amount equal to the eligible repair expense, up to a maximum of $50.

Any National Class Member who is eligible to receive cash payment under subparagraph (a) above may opt to instead receive 40% of the eligible repair expense, up to a maximum of $800, if the National Class Member submits Proof of Internal Leak Repair Expense showing a repair costing over $1,500 due to a diagnosed internal coolant leak.

Excluded under the Settlement

Anyone who purchased or leased a vehicle for commercial or business purposes.

An insurer or other business that has fully or partially indemnified its customer for an eligible repair whether the insurer or other business is purporting to make a claim for benefits under this Settlement in a subrogated capacity or not.

Class Counsel Fees

The Settlement provides that fees and disbursements (including applicable taxes) of class counsel across the country are $2,816,000 up to August 28, 2008, including taxes, and a further $131,250, including taxes, for further work after August 28, 2008. GM will pay all of these fees and disbursements separately from, and without reducing, the reimbursement payments it makes to National Class Members under the Settlement.

MOTION FOR CERTIFICATION AND APPROVAL OF THE SETTLEMENT, INCLUDING CLASS COUNSEL FEES

The Ontario Superior Court of Justice will decide whether it will certify the class action for settlement purposes and approve the Settlement, including class counsel fees, at a hearing on October 14, 2008 at 10:00 a.m. eastern daylight savings time at 361 University Avenue, Toronto.

If the Court approves the Settlement, all National Class Members will be bound by the terms of the Settlement, unless they opt out. If approved, there will be a further Court approved notice program instructing National Class Members how to make a claim to receive settlement compensation or how to opt out of the class action if they do not wish to share in the proceeds of the Settlement.
Objections to the proposed Settlement including Counsel Fees

At the Court hearing, the Court will consider class members’ objections to the proposed Settlement, including class counsel fees.

Written objections must be mailed or emailed to the Claims Administrator and received no later than 5:00 p.m. on October 10, 2008 at the address listed below:

GM Claims Administrator
c/o Crawford Class Action Services
3-505, 133 Weber St. N.
Waterloo ON N2J 3G9
Telephone 1 866 640 9989
Fax 519 578 7739
gmsettlement@crawco.ca
www.gmcanadiansettlement.ca

Class members who object to the proposed Settlement shall include in their written objection the following information:

(a) the person’s name, address, telephone number, fax number and e-mail address;
(b) a brief statement of the nature of and reasons for the objection;
(c) a statement or documents establishing that the person is a National Class Member; and
(d) whether the person, or a representative, intends to appear at the Court hearing in person or by counsel, and if by counsel, the name, address, telephone number, fax number and e-mail address of counsel.

Class members may, but are not required to, attend at the Court hearing.

Class Counsel

The law firms listed below represent Class Members and can be reached at:

Brian Kirkland
Stevensons LLP
144 Front Street, Suite 400
Toronto, ON M5J 2L7
Phone: 416-599-7900
Fax: 416-599-7910
Email: bkirkland@stevensonlaw.net

Koskie Minsky LLP
20 Queen Street West, Suite 900, Box 52
Toronto, ON M5H 3R3
Phone: 1-877-398-0497
Email: gmclassaction@kmlaw.ca

Class Members who consider it desirable or necessary to seek the advice and guidance of their own lawyers are encouraged to do so. Such legal fees are the responsibility of the individual class member.
Interpretation

This Notice is a summary of some of the terms of the proposed Settlement. If there is any conflict between the provisions of this Notice and the proposed Settlement, the terms of the proposed Settlement shall prevail.

This Notice has been approved by the Ontario Superior Court of Justice. Any questions about the substantive matters in this Notice should not be directed to the Court as its administrative structures are not designed to address this type of inquiry.

Settlement Approval for residents in Quebec is proceeding separately in the Quebec Courts. Please visit the Settlement website, www.gmcanadiansettlement.ca, for more information
________________________________

Brian J. Kirkland, Law Clerk
Stevensons LLP
Barristers
144 Front Street West, Suite 400
Toronto, Ontario M5J 2L7
Voice: (416) 599-7900 ext. 281
Fax: (416) 599-7910
E-mail: bkirkland@stevensonlaw.net



Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
reply to cdru
said by cdru:

If a $10 bottle of Bar's fixes the problem, then why wouldn't a dealership use that in lieu of a real repair for warranty work where money (both for parts and labor) is ultimately the concern?

This isn't a warranty on a new car discussion. The new car very likely already has factory installed stop leak (see second part). Warranty is to fix the vehicle back to like new condition.

said by cdru:

Just because a product is available in an auto parts store, and it might work for an extended period, doesn't make it the best solution to a problem. I've done several 3400 LIM gasket replacements and I would never trust Bars to fix the problem where the gasket was leaking.

This has been discussed before.

»Fix in a botle actually worked!

You do know that the Big 3 (or what was the Big 3) put stop leak in at the factory, right?

»www.barsleaks.net/d/index.html
quote:
Now Bar's Leaks is factory installed in 3 out of 4 new cars made in USA by such as General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, and Bar's Leaks is the most widely used stop-leak and rust inhibitor in the world.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2
reply to PrntRhd
said by PrntRhd:

said by billydunwood:

said by PrntRhd:

Stop leak like Bars is a temporary fix and I suggest only trying it once. More doses than that can really screw up the cooling system.

how long would you say it would last, being temporary?

Until it starts leaking again and leaves you overheated somewhere. Exactly until then.

If I had seen this guy's post before I left my car with the mechanic I would have tried out his magic, cheap fix but it's too late now, I got my car back today.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds:

You do know that the Big 3 (or what was the Big 3) put stop leak in at the factory, right?

The difference is that when the Big 3 put it in, they are putting in a couple of pellets (GM IIRC ranges from 2-6 pellets), not an entire bottle of them. And they are added to prevent leaks from porous components, slight imperfections from the manufacturing process, etc. They aren't putting it in there to repair mechanical failures, rather to help correct defects. A mechanical failure is just going to continue to get worse.


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
It really sounds like you are just tilting at windmills here. Not much else I can say.

Beezel

join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV
reply to Xstar_Lumini
It is the same as to what GM uses. But the main 'patented' ingredient is the same just the additives are different. Most factory parts come from the same manufactures, but have their names changed and a little difference in looks, etc. to make it like it is their own creation. So they are the same main ingredient but different suspension method.


bobblololol

@myvzw.com
reply to Xstar_Lumini
I thought these gasket issues were only common on the 3100 motors?


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
Nope, the 3800's (3.8L) as well.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
3100 and 3400 engines were the same engine, just slightly bigger pistons. I thought the 3800 was a similar, but not quite the same problem.