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thecybernerd
Premium
join:2007-01-05
Great Falls, VA

IDIOT

This guy is an IDIOT!


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

Yes, but there are millions of idiots out there that would sign up for Gbps service thinking it will make their youtube, facebook, Netflix and hotmail work faster.

Im all for making faster speeds, but for 99% of households, 20-30Mbps is more than enough for todays applications.


thecybernerd
Premium
join:2007-01-05
Great Falls, VA
the whole point of the Google Fiber project is not for "todays applications" but for tomorrows applications. They want to foster innovation that is only possible with this much bandwidth.

xenophon

join:2007-09-17
Also, most services have very low uplink speed or charge a lot for more uplink. There will be a lot of future apps that take advantage of faster uplink.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to ITALIAN926
If you build for today what you need for today, then tomorrow brings nothing but more problems. It always has and it always will be that way.

You build what you need for tomorrow and you let today work it's way toward tomorrow. It always does and it always will get there.

Cobra11M

join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX
reply to ITALIAN926
you sir don't know the potential with 1gbps.. its not all about just downloading.. the cloud is the future and no cable company can get their act together quick enough.. Files being uploaded on a 1mbps isn't enough the cable companies cant even match speeds with all the extra crap they got running on it

Cobra11M

join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX
reply to xenophon
said by xenophon:

Also, most services have very low uplink speed or charge a lot for more uplink. There will be a lot of future apps that take advantage of faster uplink.

big time, I think we may even soon see a web os (litterly on the cloud idea) in such a idea the upload is needed to speed up to 20-40mbps to really use it..

storage is getting cheap and companies are competing on the cloud storage areas I would not be surprised if we don't see some one come along and beat Google 1tb.. that being said we need more speed


HaloFans

join:2006-12-18
reply to thecybernerd


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Cobra11M
No one is arguing the potential of 1Gb service. The argument is that we do not NEED it today and we do not NEED it in the very near future. There is no current demand for it today.

Will we need it in the future? Certainly. Do we need to push to make sure that every house has it in the next 2-3 years while bankrupting as many people as possible? Nope. (Remember the dot bomb build outs?)

The important thing that this project does is provide a place in which to develop the that future need so that there is future demand to which providers will provide.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
reply to thecybernerd
even more funny is nether Verizon OR Comcast serve KC
KC both states are Served by TWC and AT&T lol


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to battleop
There is not a damn thing wrong with being ready.Why do people like you always want to be behind the 8 ball rather than infont?Dot com means shit in this climate.This is and will continue to be the online climate for decades to come.Apps and programs will come and go as will the iphone but the net will still be there


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
If you don't lean from mistakes (see dotbom era) you at doomed to repeat them again. Lots of companies over built with no real need and many went belly up. Phone companies regardless of size do not have endless supplies of money
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


tmh

@myvzw.com
reply to battleop
said by battleop:

No one is arguing the potential of 1Gb service. The argument is that we do not NEED it today and we do not NEED it in the very near future. There is no current demand for it today.

Will we need it in the future? Certainly. Do we need to push to make sure that every house has it in the next 2-3 years while bankrupting as many people as possible? Nope. (Remember the dot bomb build outs?)

The important thing that this project does is provide a place in which to develop the that future need so that there is future demand to which providers will provide.

I recall a similar argument when dialup was king and DSL was just rolling out.

Doubtless, the slow to respond will die. Just ask Earthlink. Doubtless also, many new businesses will grow. Just ask Amazon, Roku, iTunes, Netflix, and, and...


buzz_4_20

join:2003-09-20
Limestone, ME
reply to Cobra11M
Many users already have a need for that kind of upload.

Lets not forget what small to mid-size business needs.

xenophon

join:2007-09-17
Google is not targeting small/medium biz but I imagine after a year of eval, if they decide to stay in ISP biz, they'll allow SMBs. They've given some indication it's a future thing.


bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·T-Mobile US
reply to Cobra11M
said by Cobra11M:

said by xenophon:

Also, most services have very low uplink speed or charge a lot for more uplink. There will be a lot of future apps that take advantage of faster uplink.

big time, I think we may even soon see a web os (litterly on the cloud idea) in such a idea the upload is needed to speed up to 20-40mbps to really use it..

Something like Chrome OS maybe?
--


elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to thecybernerd
Actually, he's quite prescient. Google's experiment in subsidy is likely to to demonstrate only how to lose money. They're pretty good at it.

The 99% of us who don't live in KC, KC, or Palo Alto, will NOT see VZ, AT&T, Comcast or TWC quaking in their boots and begging us to buy fiber from them at $70/month. They will, instead, attempt to deliver us basic broadband at a price we'll actually pay.

Cobra11M

join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX
reply to bobjohnson
said by bobjohnson:

said by Cobra11M:

said by xenophon:

Also, most services have very low uplink speed or charge a lot for more uplink. There will be a lot of future apps that take advantage of faster uplink.

big time, I think we may even soon see a web os (litterly on the cloud idea) in such a idea the upload is needed to speed up to 20-40mbps to really use it..

Something like Chrome OS maybe?

yup forgot about that haha


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to elray
said by elray:

The 99% of us who don't live in KC, KC, or Palo Alto, will NOT see VZ, AT&T, Comcast or TWC quaking in their boots and begging us to buy fiber from them at $70/month.

I don't live in any of those places, but I am looking forward to the day that Sonic.net, LLC rolls out fiber in San José.

I've already kicked AT&T to the curb in favor of Sonic.net.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


buddahbless

join:2005-03-21
Premium
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T DSL Service
reply to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

If you build for today what you need for today, then tomorrow brings nothing but more problems. It always has and it always will be that way.

Very true Skippy...
A great example besides broadband in the US is our highway/ roadway systems the knowledge of demand exploding was always there however they did not want to expand past the normal 1-2 lanes in each direction. It was overlooked now, there there building 5-6 lanes in almost every major urban area well after congestion has taken place and there now having to take eminent domain in some areas for land space that should have been set aside for roadways/Highways in the first place.

Another area where the US failed at is there passenger railroad program, from the invention of Amtrak ( in the 70s) The goal should have been to build and maintain there own railway ( high speed lines running on electricity) At least east of the Mississippi where the majority of our population lives, Similar to Amtrak in the NEC which Amtrak makes a heck of a profit on, and similar to rail lines in Europe, china, and the UK. The ball was dropped and now that high gas prices are here to stay, theres and the cost to build such a railroad network have sky rocketed there is no alternative to, cars, buses, and planes which all share in high fuel cost as none currently can run of a pure renewable energy.

"IF you build it, they will come" ..... field of dreams...
That phrase holds true in almost all aspects.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to battleop
If Google really is deploying this all on GPON (rather than 10GPON), they're deploying exactly the same type of network as Verizon is using for FiOS. They only difference would be that Google is setting the max rate per customer higher (and potentially using a lower split ratio per node).

It's hard to argue that that's overbuilding, since there is no real technical difference between them promising 100 Mbps or 1000 Mbps per customer; it's the same physical deployment either way.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

xenophon

join:2007-09-17
Does this give any possible insight to the Google infrastructure?

»www.google.com/patents/US20110299851


Camaro
Question everything
Premium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
kudos:1
reply to Skippy25
I think the word is half assed


Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1
reply to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

Im all for making faster speeds, but for 99% of households, 20-30Mbps is more than enough for todays applications.

15 Years ago, 56k was "more than enough for todays applications". And then came Napster, and suddenly it was taking half an hour to download a single 3 minute song.

Fast-forward 15 years to today. "20-30Mbps is more than enough for today's applications". Mind you, for a lot of people, 20-30Mbps isn't even available, so 5Mpbs if people are lucky. Oh but then steam had to come along, and Origin, and Garage of Games, and Direct2Drive... 1 "DVD" game around 8GB takes around 5-6 hours to download. Bigger games (some as much as 30gigs) you're looking at a day to download.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
Thats fine and dandy, but what percentage of internet users do you think download games?. Everyone I know still buys their games at a local store. We can even mention HD movies. I dont really know anyone that downloads movies, just streams them.

Comparing the 56k dialup to a 5Mbps DSL/cable back then, is much different than comparing a 20Mbps to 1000Mbps today. There simply isnt any real benefit to upgrade to such a connection, right now, for the overwhelming majority of users


Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1
said by ITALIAN926:

Thats fine and dandy, but what percentage of internet users do you think download games?. Everyone I know still buys their games at a local store. We can even mention HD movies. I dont really know anyone that downloads movies, just streams them.

Comparing the 56k dialup to a 5Mbps DSL/cable back then, is much different than comparing a 20Mbps to 1000Mbps today. There simply isnt any real benefit to upgrade to such a connection, right now, for the overwhelming majority of users

There are some 4 million people logged into steam right now. That doesn't count Origin, or Xbox Live, or PSN, etc. Many people download games.

20Mpbs is shot when one person is downloading one of those games and does nothing for the on average other 1.5 persons in the household. Oh sorry you were trying to watch a movie using netflix, I'm downloading a game right now and It's going to take half an hour.

The suddenly BOOM 1Gbps. There is plenty of bandwidth for not only that game to download, but for that netflix stream, and hell, while waiting for that game to download the downloader can watch something on netflix as well.

Then like I said the time involved. Just because YOU don't know anybody who downloads games doesn't mean there aren't tons of gamers out there who when they get home to a 300mb patch for their MMO, or they see a good sale on steam that they'll actually be able to jump in and play in a minute or two, rather than a good portion of their limited gaming time getting taken up by waiting on a download.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
I have to check out this "steam" , my xbox's cd rom crapped out, and didnt feel like replacing it.


LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX

1 recommendation

Not to be rude, but if you aren't even aware of Steam, I highly doubt you have an accurate perspective of what 20-30mbps can cover today, much less the near to far future.

elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
reply to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by elray:

The 99% of us who don't live in KC, KC, or Palo Alto, will NOT see VZ, AT&T, Comcast or TWC quaking in their boots and begging us to buy fiber from them at $70/month.

I don't live in any of those places, but I am looking forward to the day that Sonic.net, LLC rolls out fiber in San José.

I've already kicked AT&T to the curb in favor of Sonic.net.

As did we, but we aren't privileged to subscribe "Fusion" before the massive price increase, while the performance of said service is a crapshoot, and legacy DSL pricing climbs ever skyward.

You might be willing to pay $70+/month for broadband. We did for many years, i.e. for basic DSL, but today, the $20-30 offerings from CableCo and the former dry-loop DSL rates provide more than adequate bandwidth - I don't see many households wanting to pay those higher rates, 250GB-300GB caps actually happen and actually impact TV viewing - unlikely.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by elray:

You might be willing to pay $70+/month for broadband ...

Really? Never paid that much in my life:
     -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      RECEIPT
 
     Sonic.net, Inc.
     2260 Apollo Way
     Santa Rosa, CA 95407
     707.522.1000
     support@sonic.net
 
                                                        Due Date: 2011-11-10
                                       Service from 2011-11-10 to 2011-12-10
     For:
     %Customer% <%Customer%@sonic.net>
     5555 Gigash HDD
     Silly James, CA  95678
     _______________________________________________________________________
     Description                                    Unit Price         Total
     -----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Email account user01                                 0.00          0.00  
     Email account user02                                 0.00          0.00  
     Email account user03                                 0.00          0.00  
     Email account user04                                 0.00          0.00  
     Invoice to email ********@pacbell.net                0.00          0.00  
     DNS example.com                                      1.95          1.95  
     Fusion Broadband - Single Line -                    39.95         39.95  
       STI-00nnnnn-0
     Fusion Broadband Information - STI-00nnnnn-0         0.00          0.00  
       Data $19.97 Voice $19.98
     Voice Federal Subscriber Line Charge Fee             6.50          6.50  
     Voice Federal Universal Service Fund Fee             1.91          1.91  
     Voice California Lifeline Telephone Service          0.16          0.16  
       Surcharge
     Voice California Deaf and Disabled Telecom           0.03          0.03  
       Program Surcharge
     Voice California High Cost Fund-B Surcharge          0.04          0.04  
     Voice California Teleconnect Fund Surcharge          0.01          0.01  
     Voice California Advanced Services Fund              0.02          0.02  
       Surcharge
     Voice California 911 Emergency Surcharge             0.07          0.07  
     Voice San Jose Utility Users Tax                     1.19          1.19  
     Fusion IP address space 173.228.nnn.nn/32            0.00          0.00  
     Fusion Phone Service - 4085553210                    0.00          0.00  
     Voice California Public Utility Commission           0.03          0.03  
       User Fee
     Voice FCC Interstate Telecom Service Fee             0.04          0.04  
     Charge Prorate 2011-11-01 to 2011-11-10 for          0.01          0.01  
       Voice California Advanced Services Fund
       Surcharge
     Charge Prorated charge for DNS example.com           0.65          0.65  
 
                                                             Total:    52.56
 
     -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 

The last AT&T bill had fewer extras, but was $103.cc for 3.0Mb/s (nominal; 2.5Mb/s actual). Service is now 4.9Mb/s.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum