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alg
Passionately apathetic
Premium
join:2001-04-10
Houston, TX
kudos:3
reply to mastsethi

Re: Why do you hate Microsoft

It was a lot easier to hate on Microsoft back in the day when they made unreliable operating systems. Really, ever since they switched to the NT base (XP on up) Windows has been good and reliable and nearly the PITA to use as Me/98/95.
--
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
said by alg:

It was a lot easier to hate on Microsoft back in the day when they made unreliable operating systems. Really, ever since they switched to the NT base (XP on up) Windows has been good and reliable and nearly the PITA to use as Me/98/95.

I "hate" always having to tell people this (it doesn't really stop me, of course), but XP and its descendants are only "good and reliable" in relation to prior Microsoft operating systems, which were remarkably bad! Most other operating systems (particularly those which aspire to be "enterprise" class) place a premium on stability and reliability vs. eye candy and other bell and whistles, while Microsoft has always tended to do the opposite.

For example, it amazes me how much publicity has been given to the new interface on Windows 8. Love it or hate it (and I gather most people hate it so far), it's really nothing more than a minor layer placed on top of the OS, and unless Microsoft has made major stability and reliability improvements to the core of the OS, then there is absolutely zero reason to upgrade to Win 8. Then again, there has been relatively little reason to upgrade to ANY of the latest Microsoft operating systems, which is one reason why so many organizations are still running XP and similar.

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
Having some experience with many operating systems (and I don't just mean "Windows and 85 flavours of Unix"), I'm inclined to the opinion that Windows NT is a pretty decent operating system core - stable, secure, multiuser, etc. The words "eye candy" don't apply, since there isn't any at the level I'm talking about, i.e., kernel and the required subsystems.

Of course, there's a whole heap of crap in userland. Which is where the security problems tend to show up.

Happydude32
Premium
join:2005-07-16
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to Gbcue
said by Gbcue:

said by bitemeboy:

Microsoft does not exist since I have none of their products on my computers.

I suppose you've also never used any ATMs, arcade games, self-serve terminals (like airport check-in), or looked at any electronic billboards?

Or walked by the giant iPhone display in an AT&T Store...


--
For the future of our nation, we must unite and vote out the terrorist known as Hussein Obama. Come November 6 2012 we must remove the socialist pig out of office and get our country back on the RIGHT track.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to dave
said by dave:

Having some experience with many operating systems (and I don't just mean "Windows and 85 flavours of Unix"), I'm inclined to the opinion that Windows NT is a pretty decent operating system core - stable, secure, multiuser, etc. The words "eye candy" don't apply, since there isn't any at the level I'm talking about, i.e., kernel and the required subsystems.

Of course, there's a whole heap of crap in userland. Which is where the security problems tend to show up.

By the standards of the systems I'm used to working with (not including various flavors of Unix, either), NT barely qualifies as anything like stable and secure. It can't run hundreds, thousands, even tens of thousands of independent processes almost flawlessly, for thousands of users, either, like those can. But that doesn't stop Microsoft or its sycophants from pretending that it can.

Then again, those other operating systems generally cost a pretty penny, and if Microsoft actually wrote an OS that could really handle the kinds of loads that those do, then they would have to charge a pretty penny, also. But at XX dollars times XX to XXXX units or whatever, you aren't necessarily saving any money by going with Microsoft. So, you're expenses are probably just as high if not higher, your management costs are generally far higher, plus you get a far less stable and reliable product for your money (not to even mention malware issues). What's not to hate here?


Voxxjin
Made of Hamburger
Premium
join:2010-01-13
Dupont, WA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to Happydude32
said by Happydude32:

Or walked by the giant iPhone display in an AT&T Store...


That's awesome.
--
Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to scross
said by scross:

Then again, those other operating systems generally cost a pretty penny, and if Microsoft actually wrote an OS that could really handle the kinds of loads that those do, then they would have to charge a pretty penny, also. But at XX dollars times XX to XXXX units or whatever, you aren't necessarily saving any money by going with Microsoft. So, you're expenses are probably just as high if not higher, your management costs are generally far higher, plus you get a far less stable and reliable product for your money (not to even mention malware issues). What's not to hate here?

Does that mean I can "hate" Apple too for writing an OS that costs a lot of money where cheaper & better solutions exist?

Hate's a strong word. I'd just as soon "hate" a particular OS distro for doing something different (and arguably cost-ineffective and/or inefficiently) as I would hate on a particular kind of sandwich.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 edit
said by Thaler:

Does that mean I can "hate" Apple too for writing an OS that costs a lot of money where cheaper & better solutions exist?

Sure, if you want to. But I don't see why you would, given that OS X is built on top of the Mach kernel which is a Unix variant, where Unix is generally considered to be pretty much enterprise class by definition, with few of the stability and reliability and malware issues that so plague Windows. Now, you might very well have OTHER valid reasons to hate Apple (and I might agree with you on some of those), but overall iOS probably is a non-starter here, even if they are charging a relatively high price for it (I wouldn't know).

That said, I've yet to see Apple attempt any big migration into the enterprise space anyway (in fact they appear to be intentionally avoiding it) - unlike Microsoft, who almost from day one has claimed that their products could easily and cheaply replace other, far more mature platforms. And the one time I DID see something like this (plans to integrate Apple products into the enterprise on a large scale, in such a way that it would have seriously leap-frogged the competition), the internal Microsoft camp so quickly resorted to FUD and even outright sabotage that the project barely made it into the planning stages before it was killed, even though there was considerable other internal support for it.


mastsethi

join:2012-05-26
reply to Voxxjin
LOL.. Epic!

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Thaler
said by Thaler See Profile
So, when Microsoft encourages a monopolistic market, they're bad guys. When Apple does the exact same thing, they're just defending their product. Yeah, that's not a double standard at all.
[/BQUOTE :

Except plenty of other Android vendors are able to make phones without getting sued by Apple. Heck you have Google warning Samsung they are copying Apple. That means you took it a little too far don't you think?

Apple has publicly stated the patents that were infringed on. The world is still waiting to know what patents of MS's Android violates.

It's 1 thing to say "you violated my patent 555,555 and 333,333" like Apple did. It's another to say "you violated some of our patents and we're really not going to tell you" like Microsoft did.



Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
It's also another thing to say patents have been violated when the patents are vague as shit and shouldn't have been granted in the first place.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
said by Cheese:

It's also another thing to say patents have been violated when the patents are vague as shit and shouldn't have been granted in the first place.

Ya have you seen some of the patents on the iPhone? (you know the ones they're suing Samsung over.)

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
said by DarkLogix:

said by Cheese:

It's also another thing to say patents have been violated when the patents are vague as shit and shouldn't have been granted in the first place.

Ya have you seen some of the patents on the iPhone? (you know the ones they're suing Samsung over.)

Apple has proved that you can patent a shape and a "look."


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
said by Oedipus:

said by DarkLogix:

said by Cheese:

It's also another thing to say patents have been violated when the patents are vague as shit and shouldn't have been granted in the first place.

Ya have you seen some of the patents on the iPhone? (you know the ones they're suing Samsung over.)

Apple has proved that you can patent a shape and a "look."

Yep, and not only that, but this Judge, needs to be tossed. Such horrible bias it's sickening.


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to itguy05
said by itguy05:

Except plenty of other Android vendors are able to make phones without getting sued by Apple.

Really? Last I had the count, Apple was engaged in lawsuits with Samsung, HTC, Motorola...basically every manufacturer that produces Android smartphones.


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:13
reply to jabarnut

 

quote:
Is it even remotely possible you can post something just ONE TIME without freaking yelling at all of us?
Im sorry buddy,i guess its cause i dont consider it yelling. (I consider it UPPER CASE (More noticable))

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
said by Dude111:

quote:
Is it even remotely possible you can post something just ONE TIME without freaking yelling at all of us?
Im sorry buddy,i guess its cause i dont consider it yelling. (I consider it UPPER CASE (More noticable))

Regardless of what you think it means, the rest of the internet sees it as yelling. This is basic, basic, internet 101.

»www.netmanners.com/272/caps-form···-matter/


mromero
Premium
join:2000-12-07
The O.C.
kudos:1
reply to mastsethi

Re: Why do you hate Microsoft

same thing with Apple, people just love to hate.

I don't hate Microsoft or Apple.

hoyleysox
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA
reply to mastsethi
I "hate" MS because we cannot permanently disable Excel autoformatting.

slyphoxj

join:2002-06-23
Brook Park, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·WOW Internet and..
·magicjack.com
·Callcentric
reply to mastsethi
MS SharePoint client!!!! What a huge steaming pile of excrement!! Takes 5-10 seconds to respond to a mouse click! Terrible, slow navigation through project, project documentation and tasks. Oh, and the bloat!

And Office 2010 (and 2007 too I think) and their f'in ribbon menu interface... what was wrong with File/Edit/View/Tools/Help?? Enough to drive one to OpenOffice... only I can't at work since Office 2010 is the corporate office suite standard.

Early versions of Word and Excel... fast and awesome in their time, but flaky sometimes.

Windows 3.0... remember those Unrecoverable Application Errors? I upgraded to 3.1 a few months after I got my 486DX PC.

Windows 3.1 and 98... I had mixed feelings about these. Win 3.1 booted very quickly but was very unstable, especially with Novell networking. I also remember the very early versions of Netscape being very flaky. Win98's UI was a huge step forward, but I got frustrated with its instability and lack of task/process control.

Windows XP... awesome! Hardly a day has gone by in the last 8-9 years that I haven't used it. But it's Windows... still have to clean up occasional malware on relatives' PC's.

Win 7... not as snappy as XP, but I guess that's because I'm running it on a netbook (AMD C-60 with 4GB RAM). Might be awesome if I could get a free/cheap (under $50) license to run it on my "real" Core2Duo laptop.

Just wait till Microsoft goes to a cloud-based model where you are forced to lease all of your MS apps and pay a monthly charge to use them... miss a payment and you're SOL!


Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11

1 recommendation

reply to jabarnut

Re:  

said by jabarnut:

said by Dude111:

I could go on and on..........

Oh Lord...please don't.
I need a rest after that other thread of yours.

IT WOULDN'T BE ABOUT HOW AMAZING IE6 IS NOW WOULD IT??????
--
Remember that cool hidden "Graffiti Wall" here on BBR? After the name change I became the "owner", so to speak as it became: Dustyn's Wall »[Serious] RIP


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
said by Dustyn:

said by jabarnut:

said by Dude111:

I could go on and on..........

Oh Lord...please don't.
I need a rest after that other thread of yours.

IT WOULDN'T BE ABOUT HOW AMAZING IE6 IS NOW WOULD IT??????

lol


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
reply to Oedipus
said by Oedipus:

said by Dude111:

quote:
Is it even remotely possible you can post something just ONE TIME without freaking yelling at all of us?
Im sorry buddy,i guess its cause i dont consider it yelling. (I consider it UPPER CASE (More noticable))

Regardless of what you think it means, the rest of the internet sees it as yelling. This is basic, basic, internet 101.

»www.netmanners.com/272/caps-form···-matter/

I see it as them trying to get attention, and most certainly this one is trying to get attention.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to slyphoxj

Re: Why do you hate Microsoft

said by slyphoxj:

Windows 3.1 and 98... I had mixed feelings about these. Win 3.1 booted very quickly but was very unstable, especially with Novell networking. I also remember the very early versions of Netscape being very flaky. Win98's UI was a huge step forward, but I got frustrated with its instability and lack of task/process control.

Novell practically invented and used to all-but-own the PC networking market. Then when Microsoft decided that they wanted to own it instead, they started playing down and dirty (including those stability issues that you mentioned) and you see where Novell is today, don't you?

As far as Netscape goes, at one point they were signing up corporate customers left and right. But then Microsoft (in the form of Bill Gates himself) started going around behind them and "convincing" those customers to use IE instead. IIRC, there was a least one big company (I forget who) which very publicly signed a deal with Netscape, only to have BG show up within 24 hours and try to force them to renege on the deal. (In the end I think they still paid for Netscape but just never deployed it.) BG had a lot of "influence" back then (arm twisting and thuggery, many would call it), and it was reported that he would even go so far as to buy up big blocks of a company's stock and try to use that as leverage against them if they didn't play by his rules - as in, "All Microsoft, all the time!"


bitemeboy

join:2005-04-06
Otego, NY
reply to Cheese

Re:  

I AM OLD AND HARD OF HEARING SO THANK YOU DUDE111 THANK YOU!!!

WE SENIORS APPRECIATE ALL YOUR COMMENTS.

SOME OF US MIGHT NEED EVEN LOUDER
--
Slow down Pa... Sakes alive...Ma missed signs... Four and five
.......................................Burma-Shave..................................



Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by bitemeboy:

I AM OLD AND HARD OF HEARING SO THANK YOU DUDE111 THANK YOU!!!

WE SENIORS APPRECIATE ALL YOUR COMMENTS.

SOME OF US MIGHT NEED EVEN LOUDER

You may appreciate them, most don't


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44
reply to slyphoxj

Re: Why do you hate Microsoft

said by slyphoxj:

Windows 3.1 and 98... I had mixed feelings about these. Win 3.1 booted very quickly but was very unstable, especially with Novell networking. I also remember the very early versions of Netscape being very flaky. Win98's UI was a huge step forward, but I got frustrated with its instability and lack of task/process control.

Windows XP... awesome! Hardly a day has gone by in the last 8-9 years that I haven't used it. But it's Windows... still have to clean up occasional malware on relatives' PC's.

Win 7... not as snappy as XP, but I guess that's because I'm running it on a netbook (AMD C-60 with 4GB RAM). Might be awesome if I could get a free/cheap (under $50) license to run it on my "real" Core2Duo laptop.

Just wait till Microsoft goes to a cloud-based model where you are forced to lease all of your MS apps and pay a monthly charge to use them... miss a payment and you're SOL!

Windows 3.11 worked great.
95 had all kinds of issue, but was a great step forward.
I never had problems using 2000 and XP SP1+ worked great.
Vista was buggy
Win7 is awesome, uses very low resources, very little issues.
Out of win7 the only issues I ever have is the stupid "identifying network" - sometimes it hangs and will not display the window to let you select (I wish there was a way to force it to identify).

Cloud compting is stupid unless the cloud server runs on your home computer over your internet connection.
Anything less is just giving control of all your files to someone else.
With fast home connections it only makes sense to run a cloud server on your home computer instead on microsoft's or someone elses.

I would not be suprised if win8 or I guess win9 will have an integrated personal cloud server that will connect all your windows devices and computers as that is the future instead of to some remote 3rd party server out of your control.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
I don't know about that. Amazon's MP3 cloud service is great, and keeps getting better. What's the worst that happens, someone learns the type of music I like?

Don't store your SSN, credit card numbers, state secrets, etc. in the cloud. For 99% of your data (ie. the who-gives-a-fart variety), the cloud's a perfect place to for that data to sit.

rgillis70
Premium
join:2002-12-30
Herndon, VA
reply to urbanriot

Re:  

said by urbanriot:

That and they've eliminated Microsoft Windows Small Business Server, so if any service providers have had their clients on an upgrade path since 1999 that included Exchange and SQL, "sorry clients, what you've been doing for years has been discontinued and you need to spend a few thousand more to do it".

????

»www.microsoft.com/oem/en/product···PW7-w2cV

I am doing a migration this weekend - they are not killing off SBS. They know it is a cash cow. They have changed the migration path by adding SQL as a stand alone system, but everything still works and runs smoother than before.

I don't hate MS. I think Win7 is the most solid OS I have run, and yes I run various Linux flavors and work on OUL, AIX and Macs.

I did dislike them killing Netscape, I really liked that browser and continued to use it as long as I could. I don't hate IE, but it is not my main browser.

Activation has never been an issue for me, and so many other companies do the same thing - but no one complains about them.

I hate Adobe. I love Photoshop but the rest of that company can take a flying leap. Support is useless and arrogant.


Santa Fe
Living With Diabetes.
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-22
Freight Yard
kudos:5
reply to mastsethi

Re: Why do you hate Microsoft

How dare you say I hate Microsoft???? Might be a little peeved at them though...
--
Explore Xubuntu. Like It? Install It. [Love It]!