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Action2
join:2010-06-29
Champaign, IL

Action2 to nfgbrian

Member

to nfgbrian

Re: frontier will be using a mix of bonded adsl2+ and vdsl2 tech

Definitely agree you should get a tech out, I have attached my statistics as a comparison. I am about 2 and a half blocks from my CO.
nfgbrian
join:2002-05-21
Toronto, ON

nfgbrian

Member

Click for full size
Here are my stats connected straight to the NID

I can't afford for someone to come out and run new lines. What are my options here? Can I run a new dedicated phone line for the modem myself? Anyone know how hard that could be? Could I run a phone cord directly from the test jack? I'm assuming this is something that wouldn't be included for free in a Frontier tech visit.
plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY

plat2on1

Member

said by nfgbrian:

Here are my stats connected straight to the NID

I can't afford for someone to come out and run new lines. What are my options here? Can I run a new dedicated phone line for the modem myself? Anyone know how hard that could be? Could I run a phone cord directly from the test jack? I'm assuming this is something that wouldn't be included for free in a Frontier tech visit.

looks like you need to clean up your inside wiring, maybe you could post a picture of your NID
nfgbrian
join:2002-05-21
Toronto, ON

nfgbrian to jpgr

Member

to jpgr
The inside wiring is old and it looks as if its just cat5e cable and the phone jacks that you attach to baseboards. Would it just be easier if I bought new Cat5e and just ran a new line directly from the NID? I'll post a picture here shortly...
staregazer
join:2006-12-15

staregazer to jpgr

Member

to jpgr
If it is cat5e wire then it should not be that old and should work just fine.
nfgbrian
join:2002-05-21
Toronto, ON

nfgbrian

Member

Click for full size
I lied I don't think its cat5e. I'm not sure what type of wiring it is honestly, but here is the a picture of the NID. So if I buy cat5e would I just connect the 4 wires to the 4 screws in the NID and run the new cord? I have dryloop and don't have any voice service at all.
jpgr
WAR
join:2011-08-18
Clyde, OH

jpgr

Member

ok here a question I live 3.2 miles away from the CO . I am provisioned at 1.5m but realy get like 1.7 . So can I get bonded adsl2+ this far out to get 3m down? here my stats

Line Mode ADSL_2plus
Data Path FAST

Transceiver Information Down Stream Path Up Stream Path
DSL Speed (Kbits/Sec) 1792 447
Margin (dB) 6.7 22.0
Line Attenuation (dB) 48.2 34.9
Transmit Power (dBm) 16.3 11.9
FEC Errors 25242088 0
HEC Errors 2707 2166
CRC Errors 503 0
jpgr

jpgr to nfgbrian

Member

to nfgbrian
I just connected my modem staright to the nid. cause I do not have any phones but I do not know how the set up is for bonded dsl !
staregazer
join:2006-12-15

staregazer to jpgr

Member

to jpgr
They are bonding the connection on their end at their DSLAM. You only need one pair to receive the service.

logcabinboy
join:2001-07-23
Whitmore, CA

logcabinboy to nfgbrian

Member

to nfgbrian
It's called JK wire. Yes to your question on the cat-5. White Blue-Blue White, White Orange-Orange White
jpgr
WAR
join:2011-08-18
Clyde, OH

jpgr to staregazer

Member

to staregazer
ok thanks then 3 m download would be better then 1.5 but would I see actually 3m ore will there be some loss !
jpgr

jpgr

Member

IM confused about bonded adsl . I was under the impression 2 lines come into my home to my modem not the other way around. But know 2 lines are fused from The CO to 1 line to my home modem?
mkrasz
join:2000-03-06
Rochester, NY

mkrasz

Member

Your impression is correct. Bonded service requires 2 lines terminated to the modem. A function in the DSLAM and modem 'bond' the two lines to one aggregate bandwidth.
nfgbrian
join:2002-05-21
Toronto, ON

nfgbrian to jpgr

Member

to jpgr
Well I ran a new line this morning using Cat5e cable and these are my stats now.


Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY

Smith6612

MVM

That's looking a lot better. Great job getting it fixed up. Plenty of room for more speed and also you've gotten a speed boost, too.
plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY

plat2on1 to nfgbrian

Member

to nfgbrian
looks better but you still have some kind of issue, your second line isn't syncing at the max speed of 1151
nfgbrian
join:2002-05-21
Toronto, ON

nfgbrian

Member

This modem seems to be pretty sensitive. I gave it a restart and the second line is now syncing at 1151. The line stats look just about the same for both lines now. I'm getting much better performance then I was before so overall I'm happy.

Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
·Charter
Ubee EU2251
Ubiquiti UAP-IW-HD
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-HD

2 edits

Smith6612 to plat2on1

MVM

to plat2on1
At higher upstream rates it's not unusual for a modem to be slightly off-sync depending on the copper circuit (and both ends!), one re-train and then fine the next. It is a noise-related deal, but it may still be indicative of a problem. The upstream statistics he's getting is about right for what to expect though with the standard ADSL2+ deployments ISPs deploy in the US. Annex. A caps at 1.2Mbps upstream, Annex. M caps at 3.3Mbps.

My line syncs at 896kbps on the upstream, and this is over two miles and it finishes off at an SNR of 6dB. Sometimes it syncs at 832kbps but a re-sync will get it back to where it needs to be. It's just what happens when you have a small amount of upstream frequencies being used and the copper isn't superb.
jpgr
WAR
join:2011-08-18
Clyde, OH

jpgr to mkrasz

Member

to mkrasz
ok thanks thats what I thought to bad they just buried my line in the ground .So i gues if i ever wanted this they will have to come bury another!
staregazer
join:2006-12-15

staregazer to jpgr

Member

to jpgr
I got my ADSL2+ bonded connection installed yesterday. I initially got 21 MB down and 1.7 MB up but since got anywhere from 10-17 MB down but upload has been hovering around 1.5 MB. I have talked to tech support. Resetting the modem got me from 10 MB back up to 17.5 MB My speed a few hours later has dropped back down to 14.5 MB and it is in the middle of the night so I doubt there is that much overcrowding on their backhaul this time of night.

They had to run a new line to my house since my old one was one pair and two pairs were required since they were bonding it at the home.

When calling Frontier inquiring about some things they told me that VDSL only requires one line but bonded ADSL2+ requires two lines.

The technician told me that the guy that originally installed the first DSLAM (there are three across the road from me) that he did not provision them right (I was one of them) but they fixed the issue later on. He also said that the guy was young and made some other mistakes that he had to fix later on. He mentioned that I was on a longer loop and that he shortened my loop but cutting out the extra wire in the loop. The DSLAM is across the road from me.

They would only give me 2 MB up, would not give me the 3 MB upload speed that the website says that I can get. I seen the attainable rate and rate speeds higher than this earlier this evening. I do have a few lines that I could shorten that go to the modem. Below are my statistics.

Statistics -- ADSL1

Mode: ADSL2+
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 7.9 7.9
Attenuation (dB): 6.0 2.4
Output Power (dBm): 0.0 12.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 9976 960
Rate (Kbps): 7267 959
MSGc (number of bytes in overhead channel message): 59 12
B (number of bytes in Mux Data Frame): 227 29
M (number of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame): 1 1
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes): 1 4
R (number of check bytes in FEC Data Frame): 0 0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length): 0.9995 0.9917
L (number of bits in PMD Data Frame): 1825 242
D (interleaver depth): 1 1
Delay (msec): 0 0

Super Frames: 113385 103180
Super Frame Errors: 0 4294967075
RS Words: 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A

HEC Errors: 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 31552590 123100
Data Cells: 589938 123100
Bit Errors: 0 0

Total ES: 1264 4294967291
Total SES: 133 0
Total UAS: 107 4294967071

Statistics -- ADSL2

Mode: Adsl2p, USINP = 0.0, USDELAY = 0 msec, DSINP = 0.0, DSDELAY = 0 msec
Channel: Fast
Status: Showtime

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 6.4 7.8
Attenuation (dB): 6.5 2.3
Output Power (dBm): 0.0 dBm 12.9 dBm
Rate (Kbps): 9618 927
Super Frames: 138990 131264
Super Frame Errors: 0 4294967160

LPR Errors: 0
HEC Errors: 0
LCD Errors: 0
Total FE ES: 0
Total ES: 0
Total SES: 0

nfgbrian
join:2002-05-21
Toronto, ON

nfgbrian

Member

Sounds like the same problem I was having with the lower line stats even though you are close to the CO. I'd probably do the same thing I did and plug the modem straight into the test jack at the NID and see what your line stats are and what speed you sync at. If it works better and your line stats are higher then it's most likely an internal wiring problem. If it doesn't help at all then there is something on Frontier's end that needs to be fixed. Might as well give it a shot and see if it helps you at all. Running a new line was actually a pretty easy process.
staregazer
join:2006-12-15

staregazer to jpgr

Member

to jpgr
I've got a much shorter run of cat5e wire going from the outside phone box to my basement where my phone wires are tied in at. Do I use the ethernet standard just as you do when making ethernet cords stripe orange and solid orange for line 1 and stripe green solid blue for line two or does it matter? I know that ethernet is twisted pairs and figured that would help prevent interference and would be preferred over standard phone wire that is not twisted.

I was wanting to use the two best pair and then when I tied in where all the other lines are run, have line 1 which is also phone service be tied into the phones in the home in which each phone would have their DSL Filters while the modem gets both pair.

I take it that the second line has no dial tone or phone service at all, just data?
staregazer

staregazer to jpgr

Member

to jpgr
I talked to Frontier tech and I decided to run the lines on the blue and orange pairs. Here are my line stats after putting it on the shorter cat5e line...

Mode: ADSL2+
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0

ADSL1
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 0.0 3.3
Attenuation (dB): 6.0 2.3
Output Power (dBm): 0.0 13.0
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 10436 556
Rate (Kbps): 11996 856
MSGc (number of bytes in overhead channel message): 89 12
B (number of bytes in Mux Data Frame): 254 26
M (number of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame): 1 1
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes): 1 4
R (number of check bytes in FEC Data Frame): 0 0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length): 0.6775 1.0000
L (number of bits in PMD Data Frame): 3011 216
D (interleaver depth): 1 1
Delay (msec): 0 0

Super Frames: 311103 278067
Super Frame Errors: 2137 1
RS Words: 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A

HEC Errors: 951 0
OCD Errors: 1 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 141629764 1040812
Data Cells: 2035190 1040812
Bit Errors: 0 0

Total ES: 2502 4294967292
Total SES: 156 0
Total UAS: 1684 1338

Statistics -- ADSL2

Mode: Adsl2p, USINP = 0.0, USDELAY = 0 msec, DSINP = 0.0, DSDELAY = 0 msec
Channel: Fast
Status: Showtime

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 7.8 7.3
Attenuation (dB): 6.5 2.2
Output Power (dBm): 0.0 dBm 12.9 dBm
Rate (Kbps): 8347 935
Super Frames: 315567 298188
Super Frame Errors: 1 4294967154

LPR Errors: 0
HEC Errors: 1
LCD Errors: 0
Total FE ES: 0
Total ES: 8
Total SES: 3
nfgbrian
join:2002-05-21
Toronto, ON

nfgbrian

Member

I don't think it really matters which pair you use, just have to make sure the colors on both ends match up for the NID and the phone jack. Those line stats still don't look that good to me. Did you try connecting the modem directly to the test jack? If it's fine at the NID then I would assume that there is a problem on Frontier's lines outside of the house. Is the cat5e cable you are using now in good condition? Your SNR on line 1 is at 0.
staregazer
join:2006-12-15

staregazer to jpgr

Member

to jpgr
I ran tests directly at the jack and then I ran another ethernet line to replace a phone line that was in place between the connection in my basement and my modem. The line stats are much better now. I've got two extra pair of wire to work with as well in case I have an issue with a pair down the road or need extra pair later on.

Statistics -- ADSL1

Mode: ADSL2+
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 26.6 15.5
Attenuation (dB): 3.5 2.3
Output Power (dBm): 0.0 12.8
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 27860 1244
Rate (Kbps): 11996 1019
MSGc (number of bytes in overhead channel message): 89 12
B (number of bytes in Mux Data Frame): 254 31
M (number of Mux Data Frames in FEC Data Frame): 1 1
T (Mux Data Frames over sync bytes): 1 4
R (number of check bytes in FEC Data Frame): 0 0
S (ratio of FEC over PMD Data Frame length): 0.6775 0.9961
L (number of bits in PMD Data Frame): 3011 257
D (interleaver depth): 1 1
Delay (msec): 0 0

Super Frames: 35280 31663
Super Frame Errors: 0 0
RS Words: 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A

HEC Errors: 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 16062833 463463
Data Cells: 39133 463463
Bit Errors: 0 0

Total ES: 0 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 36 4294966798

Statistics -- ADSL2

Mode: Adsl2p, USINP = 0.0, USDELAY = 0 msec, DSINP = 0.0, DSDELAY = 0 msec
Channel: Fast
Status: Showtime

Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 27.2 9.8
Attenuation (dB): 4.0 2.5
Output Power (dBm): 0.0 dBm 12.8 dBm
Rate (Kbps): 11996 1147
Super Frames: 46500 43941
Super Frame Errors: 0 1

LPR Errors: 0
HEC Errors: 0
LCD Errors: 0
Total FE ES: 1
Total ES: 0
Total SES: 0

nfgbrian
join:2002-05-21
Toronto, ON

nfgbrian

Member

Nice, that line was the problem. Looks much better now. Enjoy!