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lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA
reply to Greg2600

Re: Thoughts on Verizon picking up the PAC 12 Network?

Greg,

I would tend to agree with you on the RSNs, I don't really have much interest in YES, SNY, or NESN, especially if out-of-market customers are blacked out of games.

The Pac-12 is asking for $.90/subscriber in Pac-12 markets and much less (MLB or NHL Net rates @ ~$.25/subscriber »paidcontent.org/2012/04/06/by-th···ramming/) for out-of-market subscribers. In addition, Verizon will likely put the Pac-12 National network on the Extreme HD tier in the out-of-market areas so not everyone will bear the cost of this channel. Pac-12 markets will bear the brunt of it, just as it should be.

You should also keep in mind that many people only subscribe to cable so they can watch their favorite teams, college & professional. Those "sports nuts" are also subsidizing the overwhelming majority of channels that they otherwise would not watch if they didn't have to subscribe to cable to watch their teams.

Obviously, the answer to all this is a la carte. Everyone has different tastes, so everyone would just subscribe to the channels they wanted, when they wanted them. MLB not in season? Why would I subscribe during the winter? Breaking Bad out of season? Stop subscribing to AMC. Unfortunately, you may be surprised that many (not all) of the non-sport channels would probably not survive very long...

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
reply to Greg2600
I understand your point and said I would agree it should be presented on a sports tier.

Where you lose me however is arguing about taking up space on what will be a well watched channel. You may not watch it, but it will have a solid core audience of fanatics as well as peripheral viewers.

As lakerfan pointed out, I will watch many many hours of the P12 Network, regardless where I live in the country vs. 80% of the channels currently occupying my HD channels and BILL.

And a regional sports channel are the Fox Sports Channels. CFB isn't regional and we are talking about the 6 largest states in the West Coast with 8 of the top 33 TV markets in the country.

I have no allegiance to any B1G program outside of being a CFB fan and have watched plenty of that channel out here in CA. Understanding I am an exception, which is why I agree it needs to be on a sports tier. Something I believe the P12 will agree to considering CA is the only FIOS market within the footprint.

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
greg - this Andy Staples article on CFB rights fees will probably make you sick, but its a good read. Long, but good.

»sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w···ter_feed

The fierce loyalty of college football fans was especially effective in helping ESPN hit the mother lode of subscriber fees. As the extended recent spat between Dish Network and AMC has shown, viewers aren't calling in droves to cancel their service if they miss scripted shows -- even shows as excellent as Mad Men and Breaking Bad. But if viewers think they might miss their favorite college football team's game, they'll threaten to cancel their cable service and install a satellite dish or cancel their dish service and hook up their cable. The same applies for fans of the professional leagues, and ESPN executives realized that by stockpiling rights for games viewers felt they couldn't live without, they could strong-arm carriers into paying inflated subscriber fees which would then be passed along to customers.


lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA
Bryan Fischer of CBS Sports is reporting that DirecTV and Verizon are nearing deals for the Pac-12 Network. A teleconference is scheduled for later today and the network would be ready by the start of football season... »twitter.com/BryanDFischer/status···84078336

flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state
reply to Bolt1963
What Verizon really needs to do is put all these RSN's into a dedicated package for those people who actually care about them, in the process they could move them all to MPEG4 or IP based and free up room for the channels people really want. BBC, Cartoon Network, G4 (Yea this one is a joke but some people want it) and several others are a lot more important to people then these idiotic out of market RSN's, yea they may be important to people in those markets but like crgauth why should those of us in Maryland be paying for YES or the other out of market RSN's when very few people here gives a crap about them.

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
said by flashcore:

free up room for the channels people really want. BBC, Cartoon Network, G4

I can appreciate your point of view, but that is quite the assumption thinking people care about those channels. What the hell are they and why do you want them? If we ever go to ala carte programming, sports channels are the only ones I will bother subscribing to. If those channels you are talking about have original programming, aren't they on netflix or something? I have been watching full seasons of network shows on hulu or netflix for years at my own convenience.

Sports programming is LIVE TV. And P12 is nearly the entire west coast with a ton more programming than YES. (which I agree with you on).

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
reply to lakerfan82
Thanks for the link lakerfan82.

The news wasn't as encouraging after the teleconference - but still solid.

* Regarding potential distribution deals with DirecTV, Dish, AT&T and Verizon, Stevenson said:

“There’s nothing I’ve heard that’s discouraging from any of them. I don’t expect them all on at launch, but we believe … over time our fans will get what they want.”


miataman

join:2010-10-27
Chelmsford, MA
kudos:1
PAC12 is scheduled for COMCAST....
--
"My hat, my cane, Jeeves".

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
Yeah, carriage deals are in place with the largest 4 cable companies. COX, Time Warner, Comcast and BrightHouse along with many smaller carriers. So we all are going to have options. Just waiting on the SATs and TELCOs

kes601

join:2007-04-14
Virginia Beach, VA
kudos:2
reply to Bolt1963
What I wonder is if they will add this (whenever it happens) to Ultimate only or also Extreme.

flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state
reply to Bolt1963
said by Bolt1963:

said by flashcore:

free up room for the channels people really want. BBC, Cartoon Network, G4

I can appreciate your point of view, but that is quite the assumption thinking people care about those channels. What the hell are they and why do you want them? If we ever go to ala carte programming, sports channels are the only ones I will bother subscribing to. If those channels you are talking about have original programming, aren't they on netflix or something? I have been watching full seasons of network shows on hulu or netflix for years at my own convenience.

Sports programming is LIVE TV. And P12 is nearly the entire west coast with a ton more programming than YES. (which I agree with you on).

I don't really care about those I just know a lot of people do, my whole issue is having my bill go higher and higher paying for things that don't matter to me, like sports. As for the P12, the fact is it is just like YES, the majority of FiOS customers are on the east coast, the only exceptions to that are basicly Texas and California they sold off all of the other western states to another company so most over here in the east coast wont care or watch those channels but still get stuck paying for them.

If all the providers got together and told these people that they will only put these channels on there systems if they are on a sports tier then within a few years you will see them all die because there will not be enough money to support them and they know it which is why they get stuck on the existing tiers. Just look at DirecTV, they are now resorting to giving the NFL Sunday Ticket away free because people realized that it was just not worth the $300/year price, new customers who sign up get it for a year free then just dump it after there contract is up.

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
Although I keep arguing, I understand your point. I don't like paying for 80% of the channels I pay for either. Unfortunately for FIOS or any carrier, they will lose subscribers if they don't carry sports programming. Certainly plenty of P12 alums or CFB fans on the East Coast who will make a change, but how many? Who knows.

Don't know their coverage in Los Angeles. But do know they will take a major hit with UCLA, USC and many many PAC 12 alums in the area.

kes601

join:2007-04-14
Virginia Beach, VA
kudos:2
reply to flashcore
Why not make a drama tier, a comedy tier, a documentary tier, etc. Based on your reasoning, they would likely die off as well.

Just because you are not a sports fan doesn't mean there aren't enough sports fans to justify being on the main tiers. Just like there are enough people to justify BBC, Cartoon, etc being on the main tiers.

Bottom line, Vz has dropped the ball on adding HDs.


Greg2600

join:2008-05-20
Belleville, NJ
reply to Bolt1963
The ONLY ala carte package should/needs to be sports. The other networks don't charge ransoms. Well, the networks do, but you can't do away with those. I probably would have to pay for them anyway, but it would be less money for the great number of people who don't watch any, and still get hammered as a result.

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
said by Greg2600:

The ONLY ala carte package should/needs to be sports.

Why is that? You don't think all those channels that I and many others don't watch don't add up as well? What are the carriage fees for A&E, HGTV, MTV, USA Network, etc. ?

Non sport watchers seem to be under the impression everyone watches these shows even though sports programming absolutely hammers them in the ratings. So which is more popular?

And again, I can watch all that original programming on netflix, Hulu or whatever. Much easier to ditch those channels vs. live sports.


dcowboy

join:2012-05-10
reply to flashcore
No they dont drop ST after year 1.
Just look at all the posts of people saying they get ST for anywhere from $150 to free every year by calling & getting credits.

Weve had ST 8 years now & have never paid more than $120.
Directv gives the discounts because:
a) they still keep get that custys monthly $$ bill.
b) directv really makes their ST $$ from bars, clubs, restaurants.


lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA
reply to Bolt1963
This. If I didn't need cable for sports programming, I'd have cut the cord years ago. Who cares if you are a season behind on breaking bad? It does, however, matter if you are so much as 10 mins behind on a sporting event....


webcobbler

@verizon.net
reply to Bolt1963
When will we find out when Verizon FiOS will carry the Pac-12 Channel? Would there be an official statement from them on Launch day, (Like they did for the MSG channels), or something like that? Or just having it Randomly appear in the Guide, as so many channels do already.

I hope that it will be ready by this Wednesday, but I would accept that, at the very latest by August 30th. I know that they are potentially in negotiations now, or so I've read.

Any later than that, I would then have to conclude that VZ FiOS will not carry it, or that it would be in the "queue" for years to come.


lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA
Web, based on some of the rumors on Twitter it appears the Pac-12 is close to a deal with DirecTV and Verizon. Here is my own personal guess about what happens: FiOS adds the HD Pac-12 Los Angeles Network as an RSN to their southern California customers (prime HD and above) on the day before the 1st football game. The Pac-12 National gets added as an SD channel to all customers subscribing to Ultimate HD or a sports tier. This is essentially how it worked when they added the Longhorn Network. Southern California customers bear the brunt of the cost and very little bandwidth is consumed nationally. Just a guess...


webcobbler

@verizon.net
I would very much like to get this channel, but if we were to get it in SD and no HD, then no thank you.

I am sure that everyone on here, and in general, def prefers channels to be in HD, esp Sports Channels. Better picture quality, etc. Seeing it in SD only would make it worse.

So, raise your Glasses and here's to getting the Pac-12 Network in HD! *Cheers*


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
reply to lakerfan82
said by lakerfan82:

FiOS adds the HD Pac-12 Los Angeles Network as an RSN to their southern California customers (prime HD and above) on the day before the 1st football game. The Pac-12 National gets added as an SD channel to all customers subscribing to Ultimate HD or a sports tier.

I have no issue with what you layed out as long as they do not add the National feed to the UltimateHD tier. Longhorn network and Pac-12 both should be part of the sports tier. I have a strong feeling though that it won't as the Pac-12 is going to want a larger base to take carriage fees from.

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
To be fair though, the PAC 12 Network is a completely different animal than the Longhorn Network. How ESPN pushed a single carriage deal outside of Texas is beyond me. Even if I were a Texas alum/fan, it would be limited IMO.

Cobbler - one area I really do not agree with the PAC 12 Network structure is their TV everywhere. They are requiring both your cable and internet providers to have carriage deals to have access. Up until that was announced a couple weeks ago, figured worst case I would switch to Time Warner for internet and watch the games streaming in HD on my computer or stream it to my TV. Unfortunate they are putting that limitation on us.

But to my point. If Verizon carries the channel in SD - if you have internet with FIOS too, at least you will be able to stream the games in HD.


lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA
Bolt, the Pac 12 will not require BOTH your Pay TV and Internet providers to have carriage deals with the conference, you only have to authenticate through your pay-tv provider and you must subscribe to the package that actually contains the channel (ie if Verizon only has the National Network on their Ultimate HD tier, then you won't get the TV Everywhere streaming unless you subscribe to Ultimate HD, or Prime HD in the case of Southern California subscribers assuming my scenario above is the case). They just want to make sure you are paying for the channel, preventing people from cutting the cord. Jon Wilner of San Jose Mercury News was able to get a clarification from the conference regarding exactly that point (»blogs.mercurynews.com/collegespo···n-front/).

Regarding your comments on the Longhorn Network, what you say is true. Another scenario that makes sense is that since these channels will likely be released in MPEG-4 format, Verizon will broadcast the national channel in HD MPEG-4 format on their systems, which would take up less space and force the customers who want the channel to upgrade their boxes to the 7xxx series boxes, similar to what they do with the MLB Extra Innings channels. However, I still think the Pac-12 National will end up on Ultimate HD (or sports tiers in markets that have them).

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
Thanks for the correction, I misspoke. Was so caught up with the TV carriage I twisted it around a little.


bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ

1 edit
reply to Bolt1963
said by Bolt1963:

To be fair though, the PAC 12 Network is a completely different animal than the Longhorn Network. How ESPN pushed a single carriage deal outside of Texas is beyond me.

You answered your own question.......ESPN has alot of clout as their carriage fees are the highest in the market, around $4.50/subscriber which allows them to pressure/entice providers regarding other channels.

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA
Yeah, I know. But Verizon is really the only carrier to cave -- will be interesting if ESPN ever really gets any penetration with the garbage content they have.

Obviously I am sports nut. But even I think ESPN is way too big. So big, they can afford a mistake as big as LHN.

xocsucram

join:2008-10-02
reply to Bolt1963
said by Bolt1963:

said by xocsucram:

these specific conference channels are pointless, all the major games are on CBS, NBC or ESPN/ABC or any of the additional channels nobody even thinks of like CSPAN or some other channel that gets converted into a sportsnetwork for that 1 game.

Guess you didn't read the thread you were responding to.

Yes, USC vs. Notre Dame could be on the P12 Network. USC vs. Oregon. Any high profile P12 game could be on their network since they get first pick three times during the season.

college teams and conferences require national exposure, not exclusivity.

they need it for media voters, its not a professional league where you can go 7-9 in a weak NFC West 2 years ago as the Seahawks and guarantee a playoff spot.

NCAA has a room of individuals who base it on how each team will impact ratings compared to a team that is on CBS or ESPN each week and will generate more revenue for the bowl game, and with the new playoff system that type of negotiating will be even heavier implied than the BCS system

the way the college system works doesnt work well with holding out viewers, like other leagues do, NFL network for example or NBA TV which have exclusive games but they arent marquee games, these conference channels are basically just secondary coverage for die-hard fans of those schools, outside of the actual marquee games.

USC or other Pac-12 schools wont help its recruiting if highschool kids on the east coast cant see their games start only appearing on the Pac-10 network which might not be carried by non-west coast providers

Bolt1963

join:2011-07-19
Redondo Beach, CA

3 edits
Very much aware how CFB works. Having premium Tier 1 content is one reason they are launching with such big numbers and carriage deals. 48 million TV homes nationwide and counting. So whereas it's not OTA broadcast content, it will be available to most the country on either basic cable or a sports tier.

Direct TV deal is nearly done. If Verizon doesn't step up, will have Time Warner or Direct TV to switch to. Doubt Verizon is willing to take that kind of hit in Los Angeles (UCLA, USC and a crap load of P12 alumni) or the East Coast.

College Football fans are fanatical, providers know their customers will switch in a second.


lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA
Time to email a few of the FiOS TV folks on this page and let them know we want the channel... »newscenter.verizon.com/media-con···ces.html
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