dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
3459
share rss forum feed


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

Court Upholds Domestic Drone Use in Arrest of US Citizen

quote:
A judge denied a request to dismiss charges Wednesday against Rodney Brossart, a man arrested last year after a 16-hour standoff with police at his Lakota, N.D., ranch. Brossart's lawyer argued that law enforcement's "warrantless use of [an] unmanned military-like surveillance aircraft" and "outrageous governmental conduct" warranted dismissal of the case, according to court documents obtained by U.S. News.

»www.usnews.com/news/articles/201···-citizen
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
Scottsdale, AZ
kudos:24
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

Wonderful. And so it begins, although I am not certain that this first case isn't justified in a drone's use. I am personally happy with drones being used but ride the fence and am unhappy as well. It's a sticky slope we're in, as indicated by a statement made in this article.

"Wednesday, Massachusetts Democrat Rep. Edward Markey released a draft of a bill that would require private drone operators to inform the government of any data collected by drones and would require law enforcement to "minimize the collection … of information and data unrelated to the investigation of a crime."
States are "increasingly using unmanned aircraft systems in the United States, including deployments for law enforcement operations," according to the bill. There "is the potential for unmanned aircraft system technology to enable invasive and pervasive surveillance without adequate privacy protections."
--
JKK

Age is a very high price to pay for my maturity. If I can't stay young, I can at least stay immature!

»www.pbase.com/jaykaykay



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by jaykaykay:

And so it begins, although I am not certain that this first case isn't justified in a drone's use.

I disagree. Although this guy sounds like he's guilty once the precedent of using military surveillance technology (drones) for domestic law enforcement is set it'll soon become the norm.

Drones can, and probably will, have more than visible spectrum camera's on them. Law enforcement will be able to see through your walls (e.g. with infrared) and who knows what else.

Do you really want to go there?
(Probably too late now anyway...)
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12

 

NO ONE SHOULD BE "OK" WITH DRONES BEING USED!

Do you know how many INNOCENT people have been killed by drone attacks?

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

Sheeple don't look at skies... They don't care.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

said by OZO:

Sheeple don't look at skies...

Doesn't matter. Drones, by design, are both invisible and silent.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 recommendations

reply to Dude111

said by Dude111:

Do you know how many INNOCENT people have been killed by drone attacks?

And this is relevant to drones being used for domestic surveillance... how?

It destroys a reasonable argument when you post irrelevant mental froth.


Xioden
Premium
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY
kudos:1
reply to StuartMW

Re: Court Upholds Domestic Drone Use in Arrest of US Citizen

Police already use helicopters to catch speeders on highways. They already use thermal cameras to check for possible "grow houses". How is the fact that it's a drone any different?


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by Xioden:

How is the fact that it's a drone any different?

The same way that keeping all known information about you with computers and world-wide networks is different from keeping the same thing with typewriters, paper, and snail-mail.

That is, drones are cheap, so there will be lots of them, with several orders of magnitude more air-hours. And larger scale changes the game significantly, it's not just more of the same thing.

Right now, economics dictates that there's likely 'cause' before manned air surveillance is considered. If surveillance is cheap, you can deploy it regardless.


pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1
reply to StuartMW

Last time I checked, which was last month, using drones in the USA was banned by the FAA. How in the world did this police agency fly an unmanned drone and not get busted themselves for violating FAA rules?



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

said by pokesph:

Last time I checked, which was last month, using drones in the USA was banned by the FAA.

Um... the FAA approved drone use in US airspace months ago. It's been discussed here.

Google it.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by StuartMW:

Um... the FAA approved drone use in US airspace months ago. It's been discussed here.

Google it.

Ok this is what I find:
quote:
Currently, UAVs can only fly in restricted airspace zones controlled by the U.S. military.

By May 2013, the next class of drones, those weighing less than 55 pounds, can fly the nations skies, according to provisions of the FAA bill passed by Congress and signed by President Barack Obama last week.

The deadline for full integration of drones into U.S. airspace is Sept. 30, 2015.
via »www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46499162/ns···-drones/
--
Webmaster - Steve
- - - - - - - - - - - -
»www.1-gb.net
»www.ppnstudio.com


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

3 recommendations

reply to StuartMW

When those in authority possess the technical means and legal precedent of monitoring the citizenry in detail, 24 hours a day, it ultimately quenches freedom. Any purported infraction (no matter how small) or any misconstrued activity as a result of the monitoring carries the potential of hauling the citizenry before a magistrate, with the citizen left to prove his innocence in the face of the monitoring data. Does any reasonable person believe that at some point, someone in some position of power will not use such capability to trump up issues against their opponent(s)? Every despotic regime in history has expanded their snooping powers to the degree technology and finances allowed at the time, purely to suppress their opposition, real or potential. Why do we believe it will be otherwise in our halls of power? Are we that naive and ignorant of history? Supposing we even were to trust those in power today, what about tomorrow - once these tools are turned against us in a hostile way?

As Franklin stated, we have been given a Republic - if we can keep it.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775



NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to jaykaykay

said by jaykaykay:

Wonderful. And so it begins, although I am not certain that this first case isn't justified in a drone's use. I am personally happy with drones being used but ride the fence and am unhappy as well. It's a sticky slope we're in, as indicated by a statement made in this article.

Wondering what they would do if I deployed surplus camouflage netting over my back yard?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


EGeezer
Go Cats
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8

1 recommendation

reply to StuartMW

Those highway patrol planes may be illegal too. Lots of speeders would love to see that court case resolved in their favor.



Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to NormanS

said by NormanS:

... Wondering what they would do if I deployed surplus camouflage netting over my back yard?

Haul you before some agency for violating zoning, safety, environmental impact, attractive nuisance, etc., etc. If they seriously want to contest such a challenge by you, there are already likely a bunch of potential rules and regulations already on the books that they can accuse you of and tie you up in court or commissions with fines/assessments (or worse) for the rest of your natural life. Such becomes the situation if our government servants elect to become our masters...
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to EGeezer

said by EGeezer:

Those highway patrol planes may be illegal too. Lots of speeders would love to see that court case resolved in their favor.

There's long been an argument (and precedent) that driving a car is a privilege, not a right, licensable and subject to detail regulation by the various states or locales. In such a vein, that probably includes their ability to monitor highways in whatever manner necessary to enforce their driving laws. The highway is a public right-of-way, subject to common use and laws. Flying drones over private property looking broadly for infractions appears to move well outside such argument/precedent.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


EGeezer
Go Cats
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Callcentric

2 recommendations

reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

Haul you before some agency for violating zoning, safety, environmental impact, attractive nuisance, etc., etc.

If governments make enough laws, they can find a way to convict anyone.


Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

said by EGeezer:

said by Blackbird:

Haul you before some agency for violating zoning, safety, environmental impact, attractive nuisance, etc., etc.

If governments make enough laws, they can find a way to convict anyone.

The problem now is that with automated monitoring systems, be they cameras or drones, the ability to bring such detail rules and regulations to bear in a punitive way against even the most ordinary citizen becomes more than possible - it becomes nearly inevitable. In bygone days, those in power had to expend significant human resources to trump up such accusations... which limited their ability to suppress larger numbers of citizens. With technology, that equation has now shifted dangerously. The greater the ability to suppress, the greater the temptation to do it.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


EGeezer
Go Cats
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8

Robespierre's Committee of Public Safety used that strategy to great success. He would have loved drones.



wxboss
This is like Deja vu all over again.
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

1 edit
reply to StuartMW

Many good posts in this thread.

This development is very alarming indeed. As a nation, I think our arrogance is our downfall. The government's encroachment on our liberties was accelerated by the events of 9-11. We are living in an age where paranoia gives way to federal justification for using any means necessary to relinquish our rights, freedoms, and Constitutional liberties all in the name of 'safety'.

I hate to say it, but if things don't change, I fear that we will end up in:

A Coup,

and/or civil war.
--
"I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act." --- G. K. Chesterton



Rook008
Miles To Go
Premium
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Time Warner Cable
reply to StuartMW

After reading the article, this particular use of a drone doesn't seem like such a big deal. If I was a cop in that situation, I'd want a drone watching my back too, especially if Brossart considers himself a sovereign citizen.

»www.usnews.com/news/articles/201···ght-case

...Douglas Manbeck, who is representing the state of North Dakota in the case, says the drone was used after warrants were already issued.
...
"The alleged crimes were already committed long before a drone was even thought of being used," he says. "It was only used to help assure there weren't weapons and to make [the arrest] safer for both the Brossarts and law enforcement."


--
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken


elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
reply to StuartMW

whats funny is i have been flying "drones" for the last 10 years
here are some videos

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwnVU7gW97E

and

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYJP51PPBH8

and

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYxiwCtG5W0


Academy of Model Aeronautics flying 'Drones' since 1936
»www.modelaircraft.org/


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to Dude111

Re:  

said by Dude111:

Do you know how many INNOCENT people have been killed by drone attacks?

On US soil? Maybe on military training exercises, possibly.


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to wxboss

Re: Court Upholds Domestic Drone Use in Arrest of US Citizen

said by wxboss:

I hate to say it, but if things don't change, I fear that we will end up in:

A Coup,

and/or civil war.

I think your right. Once the Oligarchy takes hold things will get pretty hot.
--
--
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley

"I’m not familiar precisely with exactly what I said, but I stand by what I said, whatever it was.." - Mitt Romney


wxboss
This is like Deja vu all over again.
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

1 recommendation

said by SparkChaser:

said by wxboss:

I hate to say it, but if things don't change, I fear that we will end up in:

A Coup,

and/or civil war.

I think your right. Once the Oligarchy takes hold things will get pretty hot.

Ultimately, I see us headed down this road . I don't like to be so pessimistic, but as of late, I haven't seen anything that would make me optimistic.

I just don't see any real change coming from or within our government. It's reach will expand (as it already has) even more beyond the boundaries that were originally set for it.

This country was born from great principles and will be destroyed by small ones.

Subsidiarity is an option no longer available within our borders - that is because our government no longer recognizes borders.
--
"I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act." --- G. K. Chesterton

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to StuartMW

after a few "drone strikes" pilots will be complaining, if they live, that is. as well as homeowners whose house was crashed into by a drone that malfunctioned.



Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to elios

Its not the government's drones you should be worrying about, its my drones

Blake
Cyberdyne Systems



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

Are you a T101, T800 or T-X?



Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3

said by StuartMW:

Are you a T101, T800 or T-X?

T-Z but don't tell anyone.

Drones are within grasp of just about anyone as the level of technology available to the 'man on the street' is simply incredible and as elios See Profile as shown, a trip to youtube can prove it (and I wouldn't say that his examples were anywhere near the best examples, nor are mine). For example $730 gets you one of these:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkMiIT1V···embedded


»www.multiwiicopter.com/products/···v-reconn

or a ELEV-8 Quadcopter for $600 »www.parallax.com/tabid/768/Produ···ult.aspx

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQFHaAo4GdU


which as a 2lb capacity, know what you can build within 2lbs.

If you want something a little higher tech (by next year even the basic quadcopter will be at this level of technology)

»www.sensefly.com/products/swinglet-cam

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool