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stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
reply to El Quintron

Re: Wind Mobile wants CRTC hearing over Telus ownership

If Verizon & ATT were permitted to buy Rogers and Bell, I'd agree with you. If they were allowed to come in, string their own towers, and compete with them, that is entirely different. You guys are probably not going to love to go with the US carrier and they won't be your default choice. If they can sweeten the pot enough, your wallet will rule.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
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said by stufried:

If Verizon & ATT were permitted to buy Rogers and Bell, I'd agree with you.

Which is an option that would be viable if the rules were just tossed completely. Easier to buy in than to build up.


El Quintron
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reply to stufried
said by stufried:

My point is not that there is no such thing as true Canadian culture -- there is. My point is that the justification is often a pretextual and used to protect incumbent interests at the expense of the consumer.

The unfortunate phenomenon you're referring to is regulatory capture, I'd have no problem with US players settng up shop here, as long as their Canadian operations are not subject to the Patriot Act and such.
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stufried
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join:2003-10-13
If I thought I could get German style privacy protection, I'd switch to TMobile in a New York minute. I absolutely presumed that the US players had to play by Canadian rules.


El Quintron
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said by stufried:

If I thought I could get German style privacy protection, I'd switch to TMobile in a New York minute. I absolutely presumed that the US players had to play by Canadian rules.

Assuming they set up a Canadian operation, I'd assume they would, but I don't know how that would interact with their own obligations to the Patriot Act and with our cross border cooperation arrangements.

I'd want to investigate that's for sure.
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easy peasey

@videotron.ca
said by El Quintron:

Assuming they set up a Canadian operation, I'd assume they would, but I don't know how that would interact with their own obligations to the Patriot Act and with our cross border cooperation arrangements.

I'd want to investigate that's for sure.

There would be nothing to investigate. US law applies to us companies, *even* if they are only partially owned by Americans. Patriot Act applies, regardless of anything else.

You can check priv coms site for this and more info.


El Quintron
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said by easy peasey :

There would be nothing to investigate. US law applies to us companies, *even* if they are only partially owned by Americans. Patriot Act applies, regardless of anything else.

You can check priv coms site for this and more info.

I'm not disputing your point, in fact what you just said there is what concerns me about, say, subbing to Verizon, or T. Mobile.

Where it may get hairy for these companies, is if all the gear is located in Canada, then which law takes precedence. Obviously we're talking theoreticals here.
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MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
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reply to Gone
said by Gone:

I have to wonder the merit of this whole situation, though. If the investment is held the same way as it was for Globalive, the courts ruled it was perfectly legal, which means that Telus and Bell would have just as much right to operate under this kind of ownership model as Globalive does.

It's a bit different for public companies because there is no way to accurately police the percentage ownership @ the time of trade, and thousands of trades - even tens of thousands - can occur daily in a Canadian public telco.


easy peasey

@videotron.ca
reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

said by easy peasey :

There would be nothing to investigate. US law applies to us companies, *even* if they are only partially owned by Americans. Patriot Act applies, regardless of anything else.

You can check priv coms site for this and more info.

I'm not disputing your point, in fact what you just said there is what concerns me about, say, subbing to Verizon, or T. Mobile.

Where it may get hairy for these companies, is if all the gear is located in Canada, then which law takes precedence. Obviously we're talking theoreticals here.

Answer: Patriot Act.

This and more can be found on Priv Com.

You know... there is a reason why BC, PEI and some other prov's ended contracts with partially owned, or fully owned, american data houses with server farms in Canada.

MaynardKrebs
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reply to Gone
said by Gone:

It'll be interesting to see how the recent ownership rules come into play, because as I understand it Globalive could have significant foreign ownership up to and including 100% as they are a new entrant, but Telus and Bell are still limited to the old rules.

But you're right, if Telus was found to be in the exact same position as Globalive was when they launched an objection it will be a lawyer feeding frenzy.

Wind may use the result of this to exact damages from Telus in a civil suit, for delaying the startup of Wind.

MaynardKrebs
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1 edit
reply to stufried
said by stufried:

.... but consider some of these Canadian produced programs that don't quality:

*House (supposedly set in New Jersey);

The predominant thing about House is that the creator/executive producer, David Shore, is Canadian. Prior to becoming a writer, Shore was a partner in a law firm in London, Ontario, where he practiced corporate and municipal law.

'House' was not filmed in Canada.


El Quintron
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reply to easy peasey
said by easy peasey :

Answer: Patriot Act.

Didn't I say that upthread?
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easy peasey

@videotron.ca
said by El Quintron:

said by easy peasey :

Answer: Patriot Act.

Didn't I say that upthread?

Nope.
You posed a question, as shown here:
said by El Quintron:

Where it may get hairy for these companies, is if all the gear is located in Canada, then which law takes precedence. Obviously we're talking theoreticals here.

Nothing "theoretical", and nothing "hairy", nothing "hypothetical".

Patriot Act take precedence.


state
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reply to El Quintron

(topic move) Wind Mobile wants CRTC hearing over Telus ownership

Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 12 followups to it), has been moved to a new topic .. »Wind Mobile wants CRTC hearing over Telus ownership


El Quintron
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reply to MaynardKrebs

Re: Wind Mobile wants CRTC hearing over Telus ownership

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Gone:

It'll be interesting to see how the recent ownership rules come into play, because as I understand it Globalive could have significant foreign ownership up to and including 100% as they are a new entrant, but Telus and Bell are still limited to the old rules.

But you're right, if Telus was found to be in the exact same position as Globalive was when they launched an objection it will be a lawyer feeding frenzy.

Wind may use the result of this to exact damages from Telus in a civil suit, for delaying the startup of Wind.

They would have a pretty good case for doing so, Like I said upthread if I were WIND I'd certainly be pursuing this angle.
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Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
Civil suits cost money and they are up with the heavy team from Telus with the "Loser pays" system here.

Let the government agencies doing the dirty work for them and after Telus had been declared guilty, then come in for the damage in civil court. Telus would still drag it out for a few long years.


El Quintron
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said by Ott_Cable :

Civil suits cost money and they are up with the heavy team from Telus with the "Loser pays" system here.

Let the government agencies doing the dirty work for them and after Telus had been declared guilty, then come in for the damage in civil court. Telus would still drag it out for a few long years.

WIND's pockets are pretty deep, I would assume that's why they brought this up in the first place.
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sorta

@videotron.ca
said by El Quintron:

WIND's pockets are pretty deep, I would assume that's why they brought this up in the first place.

Not really. The Egyptian multi-billionaire owner of Wind has deep pockets. Not wind. Also the Egyptian owner was having fits at Telus' allegations over in Egypt saying he was going to pull out then made a press release saying people shouldn't invest in Canada. It hit the fan. This came at a time when the Mexican mutli-billionaire was looking at Canada.

I see this more as a single Egyptian man (and his legal team), mad as hell, and now looking for some payback to toss back at Telus. And yeah, he should give them grief and force it all public. Payback is a bitch.


Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
reply to El Quintron
With 700MHz bids coming in next year (and the less useful 2500 MHz auction to be held in 2014), should WIND actually spend that money on a court battle that can drag on for a few years with no guaranteed positive outcome or use it wisely to have a large coverage?


El Quintron
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said by Ott_Cable :

With 700MHz bids coming in next year (and the less useful 2500 MHz auction to be held in 2014), should WIND actually spend that money on a court battle that can drag on for a few years with no guaranteed positive outcome or use it wisely to have a large coverage?

Arguably since the rules have been changed, WIND could do both.
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HeadSpinning
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reply to stufried
said by stufried:

*House (supposedly set in New Jersey);

From Wikipedia:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(TV_series)

The pilot episode was filmed in Canada; primary photography for all subsequent episodes has been shot on the Fox lot in Century City.[35] Bryan Singer chose the hospital near his hometown, West Windsor, New Jersey, as the show's fictional setting.[12] Princeton University's Frist Campus Center[a] is the source of the aerial views of PrincetonPlainsboro Teaching Hospital seen in the series.[67] Some filming took place at the University of Southern California for the season three episode "Half-Wit", which guest-starred Dave Matthews and Kurtwood Smith.[68] Part of House's sixth season was filmed at the abandoned Greystone Park Psychiatric Hospital, in Parsippany-Troy Hills, New Jersey, as the fictional Mayfield Psychiatric Hospital.[69]
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MaynardKrebs
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reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

WIND's pockets are pretty deep, I would assume that's why they brought this up in the first place.

Wind's pockets are only as deep as Vimpelcom is willing to fund.


El Quintron
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said by MaynardKrebs:

said by El Quintron:

WIND's pockets are pretty deep, I would assume that's why they brought this up in the first place.

Wind's pockets are only as deep as Vimpelcom is willing to fund.

Vipelcom is halfway into the market as we speak, and the Canadian market is fairly lucrative for an established player, assuming I were Vipelcom, I'd be digging in my heels right about now.
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Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
reply to El Quintron
By casting doubt on the "Canadianess" on Telus would basically limit Telus to only use "Canadian" sourced funding for their bids at least until the hearing (if there is one) is settled. On the other hand, WIND is no longer limited to where they raise their money. That's what I think WIND is up to instead of a revenge. Winning a bid have much more long term effects on capturing the mobile market than a one time suing for damages.

These bids are only part of the what needed to increase coverage. There are a lot of money needed for investments that are need to get the infrastructures etc built/deployed.

MaynardKrebs
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Telus wouldn't have any problem floating a bond issue (or preferred shares) in Canada.


El Quintron
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reply to Ott_Cable
said by Ott_Cable :

By casting doubt on the "Canadianess" on Telus would basically limit Telus to only use "Canadian" sourced funding for their bids at least until the hearing (if there is one) is settled.

We can only speculate at this point, but that's a pretty good guess too.
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HeadSpinning
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reply to elwoodblues
I wonder why Bell seems interested in keeping the proceedings private? Is there something in Telus' ownership and control structure that would be in Bell's interest to keep away from prying eyes?
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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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Somewhere in
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Putting on my tinfoil hat

BCE has too large stake in Telus, via a wholly owned US subsidiary, contravening the telecommunications act.

They can't be BELLUS directly, so they'll be BELLUS indirectly.

HeadSpinning
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said by elwoodblues:

BCE has too large stake in Telus, via a wholly owned US subsidiary, contravening the telecommunications act.

Wouldn't that be awesome. Hmm.. maybe that isn't a tinfoil hat you're wearing afterall....
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Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
reply to HeadSpinning
Why would a publicly traded company need to be secretive about its ownership and control structure?