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No_Strings
Premium,MVM,Ex-Mod 2008-13
join:2001-11-22
The OC
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reply to DarkSithPro

Re: Could Linux take off thanks to Windows 8?

said by DarkSithPro:

That sounds more like a reactive approach rather than a proactive approach. Creating a great distro and posting it online to spike peoples interests. That is the extent of what's being offered on the table? Rather than finding other creative ways to spike interest and adoption.

There is plenty of marketing, which is what you're describing, of Linux. It's fragmented, though. Red Hat is chasing a different demographic than Canonical is with Ubuntu, etc. There's no single, inclusive entity driving a common goal of choking Microsoft or Apple.

Open vs. proprietary, "free" vs. commercial. Different approaches.

As for trying to get ahead of the game, Canonical seems to be setting its sights on the tablet/mobile market just like Microsoft, and are developing accordingly. I'm not smart enough to predict the next big wave.


El Quintron
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reply to DarkSithPro

Just a general response to the OP:

I think Win8 will have a similar effect on Linux that Vista did, it's going to be pretty bad, and will generate a lot of interest in Desktop friendly Linuxes like Mint, Ubuntu, and others...

This time around though, I think would an excellent opportunity for "Desktop Linux" (if I can make up that term) to polish a product that would be non-intimidating to non-technical people that don't have friends who can walk them through the basics of getting started on Ubuntu.
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markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
reply to DarkSithPro

said by DarkSithPro:

With the other post about Stallman it looks as this could be a "game changer" for Linux. I certainly would switch to Linux only if it has all the AAA games. Do you guys think Valve and the Linux community could pull this one off?

I hope so. I also have doubts that the other pieces needed will come together quickly enough to capitalize.

Unreal Tournament 2003 and 2004 comes to mind, it was a Linux native AAA title with an engine that other studios could use. Many, many titles used the Unreal engine, almost none of them released a Linux version

2004 saw a MAJOR title that was native to Linux about to be released. It turned out to be the world's most popular game, ever, in the history of mankind. World of Warcraft was Linux native until patch 0.6, the support was yanked before it graduated from alpha to closed beta. A shame, really, it ran very well for me. Wine is actively supported today, though, so while not "Native" it is unofficially supported by the developers (Warden does indeed look for Wine and support it).

2012 sees talk of porting 2-3 year old mediocre selling games to Linux by a publisher/studio, Valve, and an engine with nice benefits and real AAA potential existing, Heaven. A boost no doubt, but realistically looking at the situation, it may not "trickle" to the explosion many hope. It is still VERY positive and exciting for Linux!

What differs between now and 2003/4? Hopefully that can be figured out and this isn't another "fizzle-pop" moment

I also question the "exodus" due to Windows 8. Vista should be remembered, it emboldened the previous Windows version, not Linux. With the time separation between 7 and 8 so tight (in relation to the gap between XP and Vista) and XBox 720 coming in 2013 with tighter integration (DirectX 11.1) between it and Windows game development, the likes of DICE, IW, Treyarch, Bethesda, Activision, Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft, etc. fully adopting Linux in 2013 is quite the stretch.

Game changer? Perhaps! That would be cool, competition is sorely lacking. Excuse me if I laugh at those claiming 2013 to be "the year of Linux", though. Too soon. The "public" doesn't move that fast. If 2013 continues to grow in Linux support, 2014/2015 may see the gains some have long sought for.
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Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

Just a general response to the OP:

I think Win8 will have a similar effect on Linux that Vista did, it's going to be pretty bad, and will generate a lot of interest in Desktop friendly Linuxes like Mint, Ubuntu, and others...

This time around though, I think would an excellent opportunity for "Desktop Linux" (if I can make up that term) to polish a product that would be non-intimidating to non-technical people that don't have friends who can walk them through the basics of getting started on Ubuntu.

Except the fact there IS desktop in Windows 8.


El Quintron
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said by Razzy:

Except the fact there IS desktop in Windows 8.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to tell me.
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Razzy

join:2012-06-21

Ah nm I misunderstood you I guess. Sorry.



El Quintron
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said by Razzy:

Ah nm I misunderstood you I guess. Sorry.

No problem
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markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
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reply to Razzy

said by Razzy:

said by El Quintron:

Just a general response to the OP:

I think Win8 will have a similar effect on Linux that Vista did, it's going to be pretty bad, and will generate a lot of interest in Desktop friendly Linuxes like Mint, Ubuntu, and others...

This time around though, I think would an excellent opportunity for "Desktop Linux" (if I can make up that term) to polish a product that would be non-intimidating to non-technical people that don't have friends who can walk them through the basics of getting started on Ubuntu.

Except the fact there IS desktop in Windows 8.

Having a "start screen" isn't new to Linux users, Gnome 3 and Unity predate Windows 8
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howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to No_Strings

said by No_Strings:

There are many people, like myself, who advocate the adoption of Linux and Open Source and think it would be great to have it showing up in greater numbers in everything from embedded systems, datacenters and desktops.

*nix already DOMINATES all those (except the desktop) and Windows is virtually non-existant.

Razzy

join:2012-06-21

said by howardfine:

said by No_Strings:

There are many people, like myself, who advocate the adoption of Linux and Open Source and think it would be great to have it showing up in greater numbers in everything from embedded systems, datacenters and desktops.

*nix already DOMINATES all those (except the desktop) and Windows is virtually non-existant.

Really? My brand new touchscreen credit card machine has Windows CE. All of businesses here have Windows Servers.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

Yes. Really. You can always find a couple of anything but if you think Windows has any significant share of embedded devices or datacenters, well, I won't say anything or this will get deleted, too.


Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to howardfine

Oh yeah, xbox 360 has windows code... my Ford has SYNC.... Uverse DVR/converter box is on Windows...


Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to howardfine

TomTom GPS runs on Windows CE.....



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

Keep going. I'm sure you can find hundreds. Of course there are millions of devices out there but keep going. btw, your router runs Linux. Charter DVR's run Linux. Oh, I'm not playing this game.

Expand your moderator at work

Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to howardfine

Re: Could Linux take off thanks to Windows 8?

Believe it or not, my Linux server is a router (two network cards). ;p



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to Razzy

said by Razzy:

Oh yeah, xbox 360 has windows code...

Honest to God? A Microsoft product has Windows code in it?! And Microsoft claims they rule the embedded world? Imagine that.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to Razzy

So does your ISP.


TuxRaiderPen

join:2009-09-19
reply to EUS

said by EUS:
Strange, I have no problems using nouveau. Why is it a joke?
Lack of 3D acceleration
Lack of feature support
Lack.. of CUDA
Lack..lack of fan/temp controls
Lack.. performance

Hmmm.. lack... or lacking... period.

NON OEM - This may not be an issue to you, but I use OEM software and/or drivers ie: HPLIP, nvidia, etc. v. community drivers like noveau. unless there is no OEM support ie: Kodak AIO5500 via cups2eps

Yes in some cases the community may provide better drivers/software, which is fine, and if thats the case I would use those except in the case of video. I want nVidias drivers, period. KMS support is NOT of interest or required by me. Nor is 90% of the features of the card(s) I have. I have a card specifically to drive multiple monitors at high resolution for desktop and video playback on anything from 22 to 37"

AND more importantly in the vain of this topic...

users coming from another "OS" expect [demand] the OEM to provide the software/drivers they need. If you think there is going to be any change in ways or learning from these users on how drivers etc. work in Linux, BSD, etc.. You can fuhggeddit! Thats not happening.
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itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Razzy

said by Razzy:

TomTom GPS runs on Windows CE.....

My Tom Tom One runs Linux - Tom Tom uses Linux a lot. As does, IIRC Garmin. Magellan does use CE.

And I've got Sync in my Ford. It's obviously a MS product. See Ford's many issues with My Ford Touch which most of which can be traced to the use of Microsoft.

Linux Owns Embedded and MS is the ones playing catch up.


pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC
reply to DarkSithPro

Every time a new version of Windows or OS X comes out, this question comes up.

Linux proponents seem to think Linux is ready for the desktop, but as far as I can tell in the past 10 years or so little has changed.

It is still not ready for the desktop, does not have nearly enough compatibility and has ideology gets in the way too much for actual progress (Alsa vs. PulseAudio, KDE vs. Gnome, Unity .. etc.)
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El Quintron
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said by pfak:

Linux proponents seem to think Linux is ready for the desktop, but as far as I can tell in the past 10 years or so little has changed.

It is still not ready for the desktop, does not have nearly enough compatibility and has ideology gets in the way too much for actual progress (Alsa vs. PulseAudio, KDE vs. Gnome, Unity .. etc.)

Eh?

I'm not sure I get you there, all of the variables you've listed are choices users and distro packagers make, not ideologies.
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me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to El Quintron

I think its gonna better than it was with vista. Speaking as someone who bought a computer with vista right after it was released, as bad as it was at least it still had the normal gui I could operate. I have a friend whose dad is has a computer science degree and can work linux from 100% the command line. The two of them had to work every night for two weeks to learn how to use metro. People can download mint or ubuntu and with a few clicks be on the web. Which one of those sounds less user friendly?



XT0RT
S3x, Drugs, War

join:2001-07-28
Edmonton, AB
reply to HoboJ

said by HoboJ:

Until you find linux pre-installed on computers sold at bestbuy, etc you'll never see it take off spectacularly.

This happened quite a few years ago actually. Best Buy was selling desktops with Lindows on them for $300. You paid for the hardware and you got the OS for free. In the end, it was a major flop.

I agree with pfak though about it not being ready for the desktop. You'll never have a standardized version of Linux that revolves around one GUI. Myself, I am a Gnome kind of person and I use to love Ubuntu. Then came along this pile of horse-sh** called Unity, thus having me find another Debian based distro. I know there are ways to fix that, but I don't want the time in doing so.
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El Quintron
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reply to me1212

said by me1212:

I think its gonna better than it was with vista. Speaking as someone who bought a computer with vista right after it was released, as bad as it was at least it still had the normal gui I could operate.

Vista before SP2 was nearly unuseable, it was so laggy it made my head spin, and I was running it on a Q6700 with 8GBs of RAM...

I haven't used Win8 (and don't intend on moving beyond Win7 for the forseeable future) but if Win8 has a foreign feeling GUI, and lag, Desktop Linux is going to have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make some big waves.
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Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to itguy05

Right I did not deny that. It's all from this:

said by howardfine :

*nix already DOMINATES all those (except the desktop) and Windows is virtually non-existant


Razzy

join:2012-06-21
reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by me1212:

I think its gonna better than it was with vista. Speaking as someone who bought a computer with vista right after it was released, as bad as it was at least it still had the normal gui I could operate.

Vista before SP2 was nearly unuseable, it was so laggy it made my head spin, and I was running it on a Q6700 with 8GBs of RAM...

I haven't used Win8 (and don't intend on moving beyond Win7 for the forseeable future) but if Win8 has a foreign feeling GUI, and lag, Desktop Linux is going to have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make some big waves.

Vista RTM ran perfect on my C2D 3.16ghz and 4GB (jumped to 8GB sometimes later). Better than XP did.


markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
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reply to El Quintron

said by El Quintron:

said by me1212:

I think its gonna better than it was with vista. Speaking as someone who bought a computer with vista right after it was released, as bad as it was at least it still had the normal gui I could operate.

Vista before SP2 was nearly unuseable, it was so laggy it made my head spin, and I was running it on a Q6700 with 8GBs of RAM...

I haven't used Win8 (and don't intend on moving beyond Win7 for the forseeable future) but if Win8 has a foreign feeling GUI, and lag, Desktop Linux is going to have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make some big waves.

It is very similar to Unity and Gnome 3 (start screen), with more up-front social connectivity and very efficient mouse-keyboard usage to move around in the OS. Lag is nonexistent in both beta versions on a computer that is minimum spec for Windows 7. DirectX 11.1 will further enhance acceleration and "snappiness".

The OS itself, in a vacuum, is not a disaster. IMO, there are a few things happening:

1. It is the "every other OS" step to be hated. Some are jumping the band wagon before release for "cred".
2. Microsoft Store eliminated a non-pay release on ARM, hope was there to reduce cost on this small form factor OS (Google/Apple).
3. Integration into Metro to include the cost/time to perform it was ignored due to "classic desktop HAS to be included, right?" ignorance.
4. OpenGL sure does cost less than DirectX...

Ideologues pray for 4 being the reason. I happen to think populist supporting people, such as Gabe, are more focused on number 1. But, so what? Get those OpenGL optimizations/fixes upstream and foster Linux to be an acceptable gaming alternative OS.
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me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to El Quintron

I used vista no SP on a c2d e4300 + 2GB ram. horrid it was. Windows 8 forces you to use metro to start the old windows 7 like desktop and the metro menu replaced the start menu. Its supposed to be resource light, but if the users can't learn how to work it its not going to do well I pray linux takes advantage of this some how.

Dell is putting out an ultra book that comes with ubuntuon it, an ivy bridge mobile(still ht'd quad core) i7, and hd 4k. Not good for gaming, but its enough for l4d2 and minecraft and I believe wow. and for the first two enough to run a server on and play at the same time. I know nothing of running wow servers or if it can be done on a personal non blizzard box.

And theres a laptop that radio shack and some other places are gonna sell with a sandy bridge mobile i5 and a 6770m i believe. again, not good but enough for wow, minecraft, l4d2, and the servers. Plus the rest of the source games should follow in toe once the engine is ported.

While these are not high end laptops, they are still commercially sold(at least one in a nation wide store) that come with linux pre-installed.



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to me1212

said by me1212:

The two of them had to work every night for two weeks to learn how to use metro.

Two weeks to learn to press the Windows key + D key? Wow. Yeah, they're ready for Linux.
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