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mich

join:2008-08-30
reply to XT0RT

Re: Could Linux take off thanks to Windows 8?

said by XT0RT:

Linux is not UNIX based. If Linus Torvalds were here, he'd smack you up upside the head for insinuating it. He made his own kernel to his Operating System which spread into many distributions, Debian and Slackware being the first true forms of Linux. Only two similarities exist; bash and TCP/IP (TCP/IP more-so from BSD).

If there are any common similarities, it's Mac OS X being based on BSD, which is based on UNIX. Leave Linux out of that relationship.

Yes sir.

m@sauron:~ $ head src/linux-stable/README 
        Linux kernel release 3.x <http://kernel.org/>
 
These are the release notes for Linux version 3.  Read them carefully,
as they tell you what this is all about, explain how to install the
kernel, and what to do if something goes wrong. 
 
WHAT IS LINUX?
 
  Linux is a clone of the operating system Unix, written from scratch by
  Linus Torvalds with assistance from a loosely-knit team of hackers across
 


Doug Huffman

join:2007-07-27
Washington Island, WI
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to DarkSithPro

Yep. I've an HDD with Fedora 16 mostly installed/configured, waiting for M$ to obsolete WinXP OS. The crap integral to the OS is the only M$ product in my C.

I will not install another M$ product, nor G00gle, AOL, &c.
--
Washington Island, Wisconsin across Death's Door Passage



FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to mich

said by mich:

Linux is a clone of the operating system Unix

Not correct.

Linux is a Unix-like computer operating system assembled under the model of free and open source software development and distribution. The defining component of Linux is the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released 5 October 1991 by Linus Torvalds.

Linux was originally developed as a free operating system for Intel x86-based personal computers. It has since been ported to more computer hardware platforms than any other operating system. It is a leading operating system on servers and other big iron systems such as mainframe computers and supercomputers: more than 90% of today's 500 fastest supercomputers run some variant of Linux, including the 10 fastest. Linux also runs on embedded systems (devices where the operating system is typically built into the firmware and highly tailored to the system) such as mobile phones, tablet computers, network routers, televisions and video game consoles; the Android system in wide use on mobile devices is built on the Linux kernel.

A Linux-based system is a modular Unix-like operating system. It derives much of its basic design from principles established in Unix during the 1970s and 1980s. Such a system uses a monolithic kernel, the Linux kernel, which handles process control, networking, and peripheral and file system access. Device drivers are either integrated directly with the kernel or added as modules loaded while the system is running.

Separate projects that interface with the kernel provide much of the system's higher-level functionality. The GNU userland is an important part of most Linux-based systems, providing the most common implementation of the C library, a popular shell, and many of the common Unix tools which carry out many basic operating system tasks.

Linux systems adhere to POSIX, SUS, ISO, and ANSI standards where possible, although to date only one Linux distribution has been POSIX.1 certified, Linux-FT.



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to AppleMike

said by AppleMike :

The dumb thing about this argument is that Linux doesn't have any of the OS market share. OSX is somewhere around 10% and last time I checked Linux was like 1%.

Of the desktop market. Linux dominates everything else.
quote:
If anything, people ditching windows 8 will end up going to OSX.

I agree with that. In fact, at both my son's colleges, everyone runs a Mac. There are no Windows PCs that the students use. At least not that they or I have seen.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

1 edit
reply to scross

said by scross:

...and some sordidness related to Unix and BSD (which caused AT&T to lose control of Unix).

In fact, BSD has its roots in the original Unix and contained original Unix code which was eventually written out to avoid lawsuits. It truly is "Unix-based".
quote:
But at their core, these are all more Unix than not Unix, and they are probably all more stable and more reliable than any version of Windows will ever truly be. If for no other reason than they don't have all of the bells and whistles and general eye-candy that Windows has, which really shouldn't be integrated into the core of an operating system anyway.

This is one of the most aware comments I have ever read on this board.

Sukunai
Premium
join:2008-05-07
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to DarkSithPro

I have often wondered what it would be like to finally find out what Linux was like.

But really, I'd rather find out what it would be like to be able to turn off my computer and never turn it back on to be honest.

I have seen 8 and it looks like the OS I will not miss.

98 ran all my games I liked the most. XP ruined my ability to run all the games I liked the most. XP was the first OS I understood though. But Vista was the first OS I truly hated. Granted 7 is really just Vista without a reason to hate it, but 8? It looks too much like the OS version of 'an 80s guy'.

It looks too much like an OS with a scarf it doesn't need to wear. It looks like an OS with 'feelings'. It looks like an OS with a different 'lifestyle'.

Nope, I might end up with a tablet that has 8 on it, but my computers will be running 7 until such time as something 9 or 10 ish arrives that looks like an OS I need or I just get forced by virtue of 7 being put out to pasture.



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
reply to kleeman

said by kleeman:

This kind of misses the big picture in my opinion which is that Microsoft have a very big problem. People are switching from PCs to tablets and MS is light years behind IOS and Android (a linux derivative).

That's kinda what they've been working on for the past couple years, with Windows Phone, Surface, Windows 8, Azure, Skydrive, Office Live 360, etc, etc.

I don't think the problem is so big for Microsoft. HP & Dell, yeah, they're feeling it. The "Kias" of Wintel hardware (Asus, Acer, etc) aren't, because they are selling into a huge market that doesn't pay for its OSes anyway (Asia) and they're used to operating on 1% margins.

Back on point, obviously this isn't going to be the Grail for Linux Desktop. There is no Grail for Linux Desktop - people will go to Macs if they want an alternative to Windows, because they've been told over and over that "Macs are easier" and (if they have heard of Linux at all) "Linux is hard". That, and there is no "Linux Store" with hip kids in Khakis standing by to take their credit cards....
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
reply to scross

said by scross:

And if you haven't noticed, Android (aka Linux) basically owns the smart phone market now, which is probably also the future PC/cloud market, so Microsoft is suddenly the underdog and "also ran" here.

Apple makes all the money in smartphones though (which is more important than shipping units), and Microsoft has been an also ran since at least 2008/WM6.5 vs original iPhone. Where have you been?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to scross

said by scross:

...some sordidness related to Unix and BSD (which caused AT&T to lose control of Unix).

Here's a brief overview of the "sordidness" to which you refer -

From Unix.org:

In 1984, another factor brought added attention to UNIX systems. A group of vendors concerned about the continuing encroachment into their markets and control of system interfaces by the larger companies, developed the concept of "open systems."

Open systems were those that would meet agreed specifications or standards. This resulted in the formation of X/Open Company Ltd whose remit was, and today in the guise of The Open Group remains, to define a comprehensive open systems environment. Open systems, they declared, would save on costs, attract a wider portfolio of applications and competition on equal terms. X/Open chose the UNIX system as the platform for the basis of open systems.

Although UNIX was still owned by AT&T, the company did little commercially with it until the mid-1980's. Then the spotlight of X/Open showed clearly that a single, standard version of the UNIX system would be in the wider interests of the industry and its customers. The question now was, "which version?".

In a move intended to unify the market in 1987, AT&T announced a pact with Sun Microsystems, the leading proponent of the Berkeley derived strain of UNIX. However, the rest of the industry viewed the development with considerable concern. Believing that their own markets were under threat they clubbed together to develop their own "new" open systems operating system. Their new organization was called the Open Software Foundation (OSF). In response to this, the AT&T/Sun faction formed UNIX International.

The ensuing "UNIX wars" divided the system vendors between these two camps clustered around the two dominant UNIX system technologies: AT&T's System V and the OSF system called OSF/1. In the meantime, X/Open Company held the center ground. It continued the process of standardizing the APIs necessary for an open operating system specification.

In addition, it looked at areas of the system beyond the operating system level where a standard approach would add value for supplier and customer alike, developing or adopting specifications for languages, database connectivity, networking and mainframe interworking. The results of this work were published in successive X/Open Portability Guides.

XPG 4 was released in October 1992. During this time, X/Open had put in place a brand program based on vendor guarantees and supported by testing. Since the publication of XPG4, X/Open has continued to broaden the scope of open systems specifications in line with market requirements. As the benefits of the X/Open brand became known and understood, many large organizations began using X/Open as the basis for system design and procurement. By 1993, over $7 billion had been spent on X/Open branded systems. By the start of 1997 that figure has risen to over $23 billion. To date, procurements referencing the Single UNIX Specification amount to over $5.2 billion.

In early 1993, AT&T sold it UNIX System Laboratories to Novell which was looking for a heavyweight operating system to link to its NetWare product range. At the same time, the company recognized that vesting control of the definition (specification) and trademark with a vendor-neutral organization would further facilitate the value of UNIX as a foundation of open systems. So the constituent parts of the UNIX System (source code/technology and specification/trademark), previously owned by a single entity are now quite separate


john262

join:2003-09-26
Elko, NV
reply to DarkSithPro

If Vista couldn't kill off Microsoft then neither will Windows 8. Windows 8 might be bad but if so Microsoft will recover by coming out with a better OS next time. Windows 9 anyone? The sheeple will continue to be spoon fed by Microsoft.


TuxRaiderPen

join:2009-09-19

1 recommendation

reply to DarkSithPro

I've let the responses come over the past few days on this.... and... now its time to respond...

said by DarkSithPro:
it’s never had before: To gain the momentum necessary to join the big boys in the operating system world. If that happens,
This one hit a nerve right away....

Ummm... Linux IS in the "Big Boys" club/cliche along with Unix, AIX, BSD.... its ms "OS" who is not a member of this club/niche.

Just look around at what powers the internet and complex IT systems, its not ms based its some flavor of Linux to UNIX to BSD to AIX to HP-UX to even VAX and S/360, S/390 which may be running zOS or S/360|390 which may be using VM to run UNIX, Linux etc...

As pointed out later on, there are literally tons of products using Linux embedded to run things. Items such as STB's, DVR/PVR's, GPS etc.. No its not 100% Linux, but its pretty close 95%+.

The back rooms of all that POS stuff from NCR and IBM? Guess what it runs on? Its not ms even it the stupid things run ms at the register. Take a roam around a Lowes some time and you will see ms being used as nothing more than terminals back to S/360|390 systems same with Publix, Target, Krogers (not K Rogers as some one once told me ) all are not using ms, and not its not Linux either....

Oh... and all those neat effects you see on screen at the movies and other shows... guess what probably 99% produced those? LINUX.

Even one of the shows I despise the most used an Amiga for its graphics! (Amigas were way ahead on graphics, but had other corporate issues that killed it.)

Not ms yet again.

The point is Linux, BSD, et al are the "Big Boys" not ms.

As for this leading to more ad potion for Linux?

Probably some, yes... in huge amounts.... probably sadly not.

Several have posted that OS X is probably likely to pick up most of the gains... Sadly and painfully thats probably true. Why? For example support. One post here referenced having 800FIXMYFUPC to call be it ms or crapple.... contrast that to the "standard" in Linux support...mailing lists (most ms users freak out over this idea), IRC (ditto), and/or forums (like here). Yes you can get support for things like Ubunutu from several places, but thats the part of the problem "several places." Just like Linux is not just Linux its Debian, its Gentoo, it CentOS, its Julep Linux, its Kubuntu... their little heads are spinning.... there is no Linux Inc to go get "OFFICIAL LINUX" and support.

And while some may think that the above is heresy, it would if I were to purchase something from that fruity company... but sadly its the truth...The local mall that wants oh so desperately to be "upscale" has remodeled and added stores, restaurants and more food areas..well one just happens to be across from the local crapple store. My new past time is to sit at a table and chomp on my cinnamon rolls etc. and watch all the isheep... Its even a hangout, for the local teenagers... with several preening before entering because their latest crush was inside..... tons of people in there, few left with anything... a few were actually brining back.... couldn't tell you why from the "viewing area."

Another reason? Ideology. Yep mine included. Your either in the Linux camp or your not and your against us. Pick any other area, KDE v. what ever, OEM v. community drivers, etc..

Software.... for the average Jane User doing their tasks is just as easy on Linux as it is on another "OS." No there is not Quicken, or Photoshop or...but there are equals and better from KMyMoney to GIMP to FreeOffice to xyz...

Paraphrasing . . . . .

quote:
if Netflix doesn't work....
Well funny thing... netflix can and does WORK ON LINUX. One of those little box player things has it embedded in the system and it uses Linux... The issue here is two fold... ms software used to get DRM. Could this be released outside of the box device itself? Probably. I would not/won't touch it for the same reason I won't now, DRM. Its the standalone client that is not released on Linux. How many Android phones have a client? Thats Linux based. Now personally netflix has nothing to offer me, I am way to snooty when it comes to movies and shows.

Which leads to other software...

quote:
....lack of AAA games...
I have no clue what those are, nor do I need to or want to. Its oft repeated that for Linux to take off it needs gamers. Really? Jane User doing email, web, etc. would seem to be the larger market v. niche users at the uber high end of things who need to have ammo
box cases

Along with corporate desktops... ala if they use it at work they will use it a home... which is a hurdle that OS X has... they left the business world in the dust except for pre-press and photo areas, but even this has eroded significantly..

Next hardware....

The referenced link in this debate list a litany of issue in regards to hardware... alot is true... how many dumb winprinters are there still out there? remember the trials of winmodems? Same with scanners too. Its not completely bad... HP seems to get it.. Brother some what gets it (more later), some don't epson, cannon.

Regarding video cards. I want my drivers from the OEM. That doesn't mean that if the community wants to develop their own equal, great go for it... but hounding OEM's over this when they have stated that pigs will not fly this decade on this over and over and over gets Linux no where and plunges things right in to that ideology issue again.

Which leads to another issue here... supporting converts...

quote:
Why do I get the feeling a lot of Linux users don't want it to take off? Is Linux a hobby to tinker with, or just a reliable Operating System
How many here want to be faced with questions like:

"My utrla whammer voodoo techno mega duper 1.2 gigawatts quintrillon byte VRAM with uber duper lags on craftwarriorblipperblopper?"

You tell them to open a terminal and do this or that for info and the response will be what is that. don't know how to do it, won't do it, just want to point and clicky this or that to fix.. I can grantee any Linux support forum(s), lists, nntp, IRC they choose to use will be a very unwelcoming experience and that will be that. Game over.

I am not going to deal with those questions, as soon as I get responses like: "I don't understand what is jaksadjal that command or something?" I am done, some one else can assist. I am also not going to assit in re gnoem, virtualbox, and anything else that goes against my idea of what should be used on Linux. (Theres that ideaology thing again. I am not going to support things I want to go away.)

The UI mess that is about to be foisted upon ms users ala the way it was with gnome users will cause a great deal of fall out, and sadly & painfully they will run to OS X. I think its a great opportunity, but its just another opportunity that Linux will miss the boat on. Why?

There is no Linux 2013 to purchase, or preinstalled, or to download and install..there is how many distro's? Last count on Distrowatch was several hundred. Another theres is no Linux Inc. to call for support. Yes, canoncial and others do offer this, but few to any converts understand or know that. Again try to throw out all the bad ideas and habits of the past all at once leads to fear and they run back to what they know and understand. The common question out of this is " Which is the 'official Linux?'" BZZT! Wrong answer. This group wants official releases, support, etc.... As soon as they hear "well there is not an 'official'... " click! They've tuned out and quit listening all they hear now is blah blah blah blah ideology stuff... No interest...

Can Linux replace Jane User's desktop? YES! I've done it..those in cubeville need only to get to web, email and the listed agency application which is custom developed. All they do is clicky clicky on the pretty pictures. The biggest thing has been that the pretty pictures changed and things look a little different on KDE v. some other "OS." I think that Jane User at home if switched to something based on KDE and had all the little clicky clicky things to use would not notice a thing... but how many distros come with all those clicky clicky things ready to go from an install? ? ? None that I know of. Too uptight and worried about saving space on a DVD or DL to include things, and then properly setup the desktop to take advantage of them so Jane User doesn't have to seek out something. Serisouly you don't even include the web browser darling of Linux? You have to install it!? ? ! REALLY!? KDE based distros don't include my web|file|ftp|samba browser/client now either... thats a rant for another time... but not to include the darling of the Linux community? And then not set it up and ready to go? REALLY!? ? ? Time and time again, all I hear is "xyz is bloated because it includes VLC, and this player and that player and yet another player!" SO!???! Let the user try out the players and they can learn what they like. Maybe they like VLC, maybe not... Having shortcut icons that start web browsers, media players, email programs, spreadsheets etc. ready to use upon install is what is needed. Ubuntu fails this, and just about every distro does. All you get is this blank desktop. Oh and the default for KDE or any other DE needs to be the same desktop that has been used for how many decades. That also means that the traditional layout is used as well which is a menu button in the lower left, a taskbar on the bottom, etc.. If you want the option to put it in the wrong place, fine. BUT new converts need to see it where they expect it. Then you can train them or let them adjust to their preferences as they learn things.

Which leads to this... paraphrasing several comments

quote:
..tablets/cloud will replace desktops....
Ummm yes and no... cloud is nothing more than a return to thin client computing which has been around longer than some of its "new" champions have been alive. Things like XDMCP, which many want to trample and remove, is part of your "cloud" computing concept.

As for tablets... replacing desktops? I don't think so... I think they are a great aid to those in the field and mobile applications, but in place of my desktop.. I don't think so and that goes for everything from email to web to developing... Not happening. email or web on a tablet... good grief no .... its bad enough on an Android phone... I need a keyboard to type with not that on screen thing... thats why my phones have a slide out one. No predictive tech is not the answer either from T9 to now, NO thanks! Its wrong more than its right and it can lead to bad situations...how many auto corrected/typed gag snaps are there? Exactly. No thanks. I'll type my response, with out any assistance, thank you.

The one thing that Linux has going for it v. OS X ?

You don't need new hardware to use the OS! And the OS is, FREE.

But that hurdle of how to get it on the machines... hmmm theres that ugly UEFI restricted/secure boot problem. Theres installer problems (see several threads here, although these may be due to the desire to dual boot, which I don't do since Linux is the only OS that exists in my world. ) Then throw in hardware issues, getting them to understand to use xyz for abc... and that many things they may want to use are available like some of those messaging services....

Again, so its a great opportunity, that sadly will be squandered yet again. I think many of the issues could be squashed and resolved them, but its too late with 2 months to go, and it requires some one to beat down a lot of people from Linus down. I would love to see Linux flourish on desktop/laptops because of the UI meltdown, and I will cheer and dance as it happens. The joy will be short lived as nothing really will change in the land of Linux.

Lots of ideas on whats wrong... so how would these issues be fixed? I know how *I* would do it, but those here don't like that.

So how do you fix things to get Linux on more desktops? ? Telling companies to "F you!" How's that working? Not so much huh...

Whats next on the plan?

So how does Linux capitilize finally, on yet another chance, to gain market share?
--
1311393600 - Back to Black.....Black....Black....

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 edit
reply to FF4m3

Yes, indeed, the whole history of Unix is quite complicated. But the specific thing that I was referring to had to do with AT&T grabbing BSD code and porting it back into Unix, which as far as I know they had every right to do. But in the process they stripped out BSD's copyright notices and played fast and loose with some other BSD requirements, so what they ended up with was a Unix code base that was part AT&T's and part BSD's, but where you could no longer really tell what was what. And somewhere along the line there was a court ruling that because they had done this ("contaminated" their own Unix code base with BSD code), then AT&T could no longer claim the legal rights to it that they had enjoyed up until that point.

Or something like that. This is all from memory so I may have some of the details wrong, and I'm too lazy to actually go look all this up again.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

said by scross:

And if you haven't noticed, Android (aka Linux) basically owns the smart phone market now, which is probably also the future PC/cloud market, so Microsoft is suddenly the underdog and "also ran" here.

Apple makes all the money in smartphones though (which is more important than shipping units), and Microsoft has been an also ran since at least 2008/WM6.5 vs original iPhone. Where have you been?

Actually, my original response mentioned Apple, too, but I took it out and right now I don't really remember why. In any case, although Apple has been tremendously profitable in smartphones up until this point, I don't expect this to last much longer, and I think we may already be seeing some serious signs of potential weakness here. Right now, in the long term (as far as the number of active units go) I believe we will end up with Android on top, Apple second, and one or more also-rans, with none of them enjoying anything like the profit margins that Apple has enjoyed so far.

It also wouldn't surprise me at all if Android turns out to become the "industry standard" OS for a broad range of platforms - kind of like Windows has tried to become, with only limited success. Unless maybe Apple takes their gloves off at some point and allows their OS to be ported to non-Apple platforms, which would be another potential game-changer.


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to scross

said by scross:

Or something like that.

More here, interesting...

Explaining BSD


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to scross

said by scross:

Or something like that. This is all from memory and I'm too lazy to actually go look all this up again.

Is this the story...?

USL v. BSDi:

USL v. BSDi was a lawsuit brought in the United States in 1992 by Unix System Laboratories against Berkeley Software Design, Inc and the Regents of the University of California over intellectual property related to UNIX. The case was settled out of court in 1993 after the judge expressed doubt in the validity of USL's intellectual property, with Novell (who by that time had bought USL) and BSDi agreeing not to litigate further over the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD), which would later develop into a range of BSD distributions, each tuned to its own specific audience's strengths and markets.

For many years, the details of the settlement had been kept secret between the parties, with the general public consensus being that USL and BSDi had mutually agreed not to litigate further over the software that would later be developed into the free BSDs — an agreement reached after the judge denied the injunction against BSDi, and after the UNIX IP had been purchased from AT&T by Novell.

In November 2004, a copy of the USL v. BSDi settlement agreement was posted to the Groklaw website, obtained from The Regents of the University of California's Office of the General Counsel under the State of California Public Records Law. This crucial link in UNIX legal history is now public.



XT0RT
S3x, Drugs, War

join:2001-07-28
Edmonton, AB
reply to john262

said by john262:

If Vista couldn't kill off Microsoft then neither will Windows 8. Windows 8 might be bad but if so Microsoft will recover by coming out with a better OS next time. Windows 9 anyone? The sheeple will continue to be spoon fed by Microsoft.

Just like the iSheep will continue to be spoon fed by Apple. Both sides are subjected to it.
--
Core i7 2720QM : GTX 460M : 16GB DDR3-1333 : 320GB x 2 in RAID 0 : Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
I have anonymous postings turned off.


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

said by scross:

And if you haven't noticed, Android (aka Linux) basically owns the smart phone market now, which is probably also the future PC/cloud market, so Microsoft is suddenly the underdog and "also ran" here.

Apple makes all the money in smartphones though (which is more important than shipping units), and Microsoft has been an also ran since at least 2008/WM6.5 vs original iPhone. Where have you been?

While we're on the subject -

The Smartphone Shakeout - August 3, 2012:

The troubles facing these technology manufacturers are reflective of what is shaping up to be a shakeout in the evolving smartphone market, which is increasingly dominated by just two companies, Samsung and Apple.

Hardware makers are likely to take the biggest hit in such a market rejiggering because most of the competition in the industry boils down to two competing operating platforms and application ecosystems: Google’s Android and Apple’s iOS. Apple’s operating system runs on the firm’s own devices, while the Android market features cutthroat competition and a range of devices by Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola Mobility (now owned by Google) and Chinese players like ZTE and Huawei.

According to a July 26 report from research firm IDC, Samsung and Apple have doubled their combined market share over the last two years.

Without software differentiation or cutting-edge hardware designs, device manufacturers must compete on scale and price. That reality is playing out in the Android marketplace.

Even Apple isn’t immune. Apple’s fiscal third quarter results fell short of Wall Street estimates on July 24 largely because consumers are opting to hold out for the next-generation iPhone rather than buy the latest model, the 4S, analysts note.

RIM and Nokia are both hoping to emerge as the strong No. 3 mobile platform to challenge Apple and Android.

RIM and Nokia may only have a few chances left to deliver a strong software/hardware package to compete with Samsung and Apple... “At some point, Nokia and RIM will have to dump their operating systems and move to something that becomes the standard.”

However, both Nokia and RIM have a tough challenge ahead. “The barrier to entry for a new mobile OS is very high,” ... “And iOS and Android are continuing to innovate.”

IDC reported that Samsung was the leading smartphone manufacturer globally, with 32.6% market share. Apple followed with 16.9% market share in the second quarter. Nokia’s market share was 6.6%, down 38.9% from a year ago. HTC’s share was 5.7%, down 24.1% from a year ago. Meanwhile, Chinese newcomer ZTE had second quarter market share of 5.2%, up 300% from a year ago.

In addition, it’s always possible that some new application, operating system or hardware design will win over consumers the way the iPhone and Android have.

Firefox OS, anyone?

This is interesting -
Apple generates four times more revenue for Google than Android devices - March 29, 2012:

Google made less than $550 million in revenues for Android between 2008 and 2011, while making four times as much revenue during the same period with Apple products that employ Google services like Search and Maps.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

1 edit
reply to FF4m3

said by FF4m3 :

said by scross:

Or something like that. This is all from memory and I'm too lazy to actually go look all this up again.

Is this the story...?

USL v. BSDi:

USL v. BSDi was a lawsuit brought in the United States in 1992 by Unix System Laboratories against Berkeley Software Design, Inc and the Regents of the University of California over intellectual property related to UNIX. The case was settled out of court in 1993 after the judge expressed doubt in the validity of USL's intellectual property, with Novell (who by that time had bought USL) and BSDi agreeing not to litigate further over the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD), which would later develop into a range of BSD distributions, each tuned to its own specific audience's strengths and markets.

For many years, the details of the settlement had been kept secret between the parties, with the general public consensus being that USL and BSDi had mutually agreed not to litigate further over the software that would later be developed into the free BSDs — an agreement reached after the judge denied the injunction against BSDi, and after the UNIX IP had been purchased from AT&T by Novell.

In November 2004, a copy of the USL v. BSDi settlement agreement was posted to the Groklaw website, obtained from The Regents of the University of California's Office of the General Counsel under the State of California Public Records Law. This crucial link in UNIX legal history is now public.

The "University's Counterclaim" section (and the separate lawsuit related to it) seems to cover what I remember. My memory is that it hinged specifically around BSD's copyright notices - or the lack thereof, because AT&T (or whoever) unceremoniously (and illegally) stripped these out of the BSD code that they took.

As I recall, a lot of this was rehashed during the SCO fiasco, with people saying "See, here is code that Linux took from Unix!", maybe followed by "No, that's actually code that Unix took from BSD!", maybe followed by "No, that's public domain code that everybody took!" - and so on and so forth. As I recall they were never able to prove anything like wholesale copying by the Linux folks, because almost everything that they held up as "proof" turned out to an non-starter.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
reply to FF4m3

said by FF4m3 :

Apple generates four times more revenue for Google than Android devices - March 29, 2012:

Google made less than $550 million in revenues for Android between 2008 and 2011, while making four times as much revenue during the same period with Apple products that employ Google services like Search and Maps.

Oh, believe me Apple knows this. Siri is an end run around Google search (and google ad revenue off iOS). Expect Google Maps to go bye bye on iOS very soon too.

So does Microsoft. Some of that Nokia deal was to get Nokia mobile map technology (since MS has Bing and doesn't need Google for search, and has their own voice technology so doesn't need Nuance or Google for voice. That leaves Maps/Nav.) No need to make money for your frienemy.

Expect some interesting times among the commercial players in the next few years. There could be a couple of bubbles popping.
--
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howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

said by JohnInSJ:

since MS has Bing and doesn't need Google for search

Microsoft loses about $500 million every quarter on Bing so maybe they do. Or should.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by howardfine:

said by JohnInSJ:

since MS has Bing and doesn't need Google for search

Microsoft loses about $500 million every quarter on Bing so maybe they do. Or should.

I'm no particular fan of Microsoft (obviously), and I use Google every single day, but I wish there was still a good and solid competitor for them like there used to be several years ago. I've run into some real problems while using Google (major quality control issues on their part) where I was trying to use it for serious searching and paying close attention to the results that it returned over time (via repeated searches) - not the quick-and-dirty, one-off, drive-by searches that most of the world does, including me.

And I recently had a brief but intense on-line discussion with (what turned out to be, although he tried to cover his tracks later) a Google insider, and the amount of vitriol he threw at me when I tried to point some of its flaws was nothing short of astonishing! His attitude was literally "We're Google, we know what we're doing, and we know what's best for you - meanwhile you're just an incompetent user!" And he tried to deny that Google these days will place revenue-generating results preferentially on the front page, nearest the top, even though this is well-documented behavior and quite obvious for many searches.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO

said by scross:

And he tried to deny that Google these days will place revenue-generating results preferentially on the front page, nearest the top, even though this is well-documented behavior and quite obvious for many searches.

It is not well documented. It's rumor and speculation based on paid ads which are placed near the top which are relevant to search results but the search results are not based on the advertising dollars.


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to scross

said by scross:

...a Google insider, and the amount of vitriol he threw at me when I tried to point some of its flaws was nothing short of astonishing! His attitude was literally "We're Google, we know what we're doing, and we know what's best for you - meanwhile you're just an incompetent user!"

I'm not surprised. These are very intelligent people who are directly working on the product and they DO know more than you and I about how it all works cause they have the bigger picture and...they work directly with the product...so we don't know what they know and they know everything about the users universal preferences.

In my restaurant, I occasionally get sniffy people who try and tell me how to run things and what to carry but they don't see what I see on a daily basis and don't understand why things are done the way they are. In many cases, what they are requesting is the exact opposite of what others tell me what they want or expect. I know better than the customer and, yes, the customer is not always right.


BBBanditRuR
Dingbits

join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

Microsoft loses about $500 million every quarter on Bing so maybe they do. Or should.

Since you mentioned it, I felt it's worth remembering this little "oopsie": »googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/···rch.html

--

Can Linux take off thanks to Windows 8?

My feelings are these:

In the "Desktop" no. Go Apple. The desktop concept is changing, and not in Microsoft's favor.

Hence; onwards to Mobile. My answer is, "Yes, sort of"; depends on too many factors for my brain to grasp (think Windows phone/Surface/iOS/Firefox OS/Android/Tizen... get the idea? It's still the three big ones, Apple, Microsoft and Linux. Linux however, has more of a chance, but who knows. If patents come into play (and their outcomes), it may be a moot point.

All I do know in this sector is that, "he who advertises and ships more units and has more developers and has the biggest user base..." could win. Win what? I don't know. Become the next target?

However, 10/10 people that I run into don't have a Windows phone...

On Servers --> Yes, and more yes. The web and that cloud buzzword(s) will keep it a viable option. Nobody likes licensing hurdles.

--

Gaming helps Linux in usage and coverage, maybe not ideologically, but that's another battle down the road. With the detest that Valve and I guess Blizzard now have for Win8, that should say something to the potential for desktop OS switching by users, but it depends on who sops them up, and how they plan on doing that.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

said by scross:

And he tried to deny that Google these days will place revenue-generating results preferentially on the front page, nearest the top, even though this is well-documented behavior and quite obvious for many searches.

It is not well documented. It's rumor and speculation based on paid ads which are placed near the top which are relevant to search results but the search results are not based on the advertising dollars.

It IS well documented - or at least it has been in the past! But, of course, Google denies it and then goes in and tweaks the results to help make the most obvious biases disappear, at least for a while.

And it's one thing to place ads on the results page when they are clearly marked as such. Google does some of this, but they also mix ads in with the search results, NOT clearly marked as such, as if they are part of the search results themselves, and this is very deceitful.

But that's not the beef I have with them. My main complaint is that the quality of the actual search results they return is very spotty, at best. I know this based on some hard-core searching I did for a personal project, using some very specific and uncommon search terms. What I got for my troubles was here-today, gone-tomorrow, back-again-the-next-day results, where I knew the web pages behind the searches hadn't changed in the interim. The Google guy actually used the phrase "It's not a bug - it's a feature!", and when I pointed out that this was most definitely a bug in my world, he turned around and lambasted me for not using Google "the way the developers intended", and then told me that I shouldn't be using Google at all! WTF? If that's not prevarication and a tacit admission of guilt, then I don't know what is!

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

said by scross:

...a Google insider, and the amount of vitriol he threw at me when I tried to point some of its flaws was nothing short of astonishing! His attitude was literally "We're Google, we know what we're doing, and we know what's best for you - meanwhile you're just an incompetent user!"

I'm not surprised. These are very intelligent people who are directly working on the product and they DO know more than you and I about how it all works cause they have the bigger picture and...they work directly with the product...so we don't know what they know and they know everything about the users universal preferences.

In my restaurant, I occasionally get sniffy people who try and tell me how to run things and what to carry but they don't see what I see on a daily basis and don't understand why things are done the way they are. In many cases, what they are requesting is the exact opposite of what others tell me what they want or expect. I know better than the customer and, yes, the customer is not always right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah - "the smartest guys in the room!" Where have I heard that kind of BS before? And I don't care if you graduated at the top of your class and have a PhD from Stanford or wherever - "stupid is as stupid does", and not listening to someone when they try to tell you your product is broken (much less insulting them for going to the trouble) is just flat out stupid!

And actually, those guys may not know how it really works at all. They may know how it's supposed to work, or they may know how management tells them and the rest of the world how it's supposed to work, but they may not really have a clue as to how well it actually works (the quality of the results returned, that is). Unless they are doing the very type of testing that I was (informally) doing for them.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to BBBanditRuR

said by BBBanditRuR:

said by howardfine:

Microsoft loses about $500 million every quarter on Bing so maybe they do. Or should.

Since you mentioned it, I felt it's worth remembering this little "oopsie": »googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/···rch.html

Thanks for bringing that up! I was probably going to bring it up myself eventually if someone else didn't, but I couldn't remember if they ever really got hardcore proof of this skullduggery or not.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
reply to howardfine

said by howardfine:

said by JohnInSJ:

since MS has Bing and doesn't need Google for search

Microsoft loses about $500 million every quarter on Bing so maybe they do. Or should.

Wow, you love to trot out old data!
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Sukunai
Premium
join:2008-05-07
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to john262

said by john262:

If Vista couldn't kill off Microsoft then neither will Windows 8. Windows 8 might be bad but if so Microsoft will recover by coming out with a better OS next time. Windows 9 anyone? The sheeple will continue to be spoon fed by Microsoft.

Very nice point and amazingly on target.


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·WIND Mobile
reply to john262

said by john262:

If Vista couldn't kill off Microsoft then neither will Windows 8. Windows 8 might be bad but if so Microsoft will recover by coming out with a better OS next time. Windows 9 anyone? The sheeple will continue to be spoon fed by Microsoft.

It's not really a question of "killing off Microsoft" but an opportunity to show off Linux.

When my elderly Mac was unable to play increasingly common Hi-Def video, I decided to upgrade, at the time I ended with a Laptop that had Vista RTM pre-Loaded. I couldn't deal, and didn't really want to bother with XP either... so I drifted toward Ubuntu (6.10?) on a friend's recommendation, and I loved it.

If I were a betting man, I'd also say that Microsoft will keep pumping Windows 8 for a while, before tossing in the towel, and launching Windows 9, it was that way for Vista, so I don't see why it won't be that way for Windows 8
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