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geebee2K

join:2011-06-24
Oxnard, CA

1 edit

TERRIBLE tiling - System-wide/solar flare?

(1) Boy, am I glad to have this Forum back up! I hated it when dslreports lost all their data!

(2) For the last couple weeks or so, I have been seeing really bad tiling, on multiple channels and multiple sets (so I know it's not just the "last-yard" connection.) I am also aware that we are in the midst of the peak of the 11-year solar flare cycle. Before I went through the agony of having a tech come out, I thought I would ask you guys if you were aware of system-wide issues (maybe v/v solar flares, although FIBER is SUPPOSED to be impervious to those things, isn't it?) Example: last night at around 10 PM, Cartoon Network was UNWATCHABLE due to the tiling and stuttering. At some points, the data loss was so bad that the screen went black for a second, then tiled back in. I skipped around to several channels (both close to CN and far away.) Most channels exhibited some degree of tiling/dropouts.

If this is NOT a system wide/wide area problem that you are aware of, please let me know & I will grit my teeth and make the call.

Thanks,
George
Oxnard, CA ("Pomona" feed)

Edit: Woops! I thought this was the PRIVATE Forum to Verizon Support! I will re-post there.

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by geebee2K:

(1) Boy, am I glad to have this Forum back up! I hated it when dslreports lost all their data!

(2) For the last couple weeks or so, I have been seeing really bad tiling, on multiple channels and multiple sets (so I know it's not just the "last-yard" connection.) I am also aware that we are in the midst of the peak of the 11-year solar flare cycle. Before I went through the agony of having a tech come out, I thought I would ask you guys if you were aware of system-wide issues (maybe v/v solar flares, although FIBER is SUPPOSED to be impervious to those things, isn't it?) Example: last night at around 10 PM, Cartoon Network was UNWATCHABLE due to the tiling and stuttering. At some points, the data loss was so bad that the screen went black for a second, then tiled back in. I skipped around to several channels (both close to CN and far away.) Most channels exhibited some degree of tiling/dropouts.

If this is NOT a system wide/wide area problem that you are aware of, please let me know & I will grit my teeth and make the call.

Thanks,
George Blanz
Oxnard, CA ("Pomona" feed)

VHO3 is fine here in Long Beach. Check your coax connectors for tightness. Reseat them all. If this does not help, make the call.

ballzak
Premium
join:2003-07-10
Cerritos, CA

1 edit
reply to geebee2K
I'm in Cerritos which is right next to Long Beach area. I have the same problem. It's been several weeks, but the last two days have been the worst. Wednesday night was so bad I couldn't watch tv.

flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state
reply to geebee2K
said by geebee2K:

I thought I would ask you guys if you were aware of system-wide issues (maybe v/v solar flares, although FIBER is SUPPOSED to be impervious to those things, isn't it?)

Just to correct this, while Fiber may be impervious to solar flares, Verizon still gets the TV signals for all the major networks (Not local networks ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX etc...) from satelights, the local networks would however most likely be effected as well since they also use satelights for most of the content but the local news broadcasts might not be effected depending on if the station towers and broadcast equipment was not effected.

That being said if there was a solar flare strong enough to take out the satelights in orbit then it would also effect FiOS. On top of that, the ONT at your home could also be effected by a solar flare as could the equipment at the central office, vho and the 2 satelight receiving stations that Verizon built for FiOS TV. Additionally every news station would be reporting on the issue as well.

As for what you are reporting I have been on vacation for a week so I do not know if there is any problems here in Maryland but I will keep an eye out to be sure.

geebee2K

join:2011-06-24
Oxnard, CA
said by flashcore:

said by geebee2K:

I thought I would ask you guys if you were aware of system-wide issues (maybe v/v solar flares, although FIBER is SUPPOSED to be impervious to those things, isn't it?)

Thank you for your response, flashcore. In my original posting, there was SUPPOSED to be a "winking smilie" ( ) after the question mark in the sentence you cited above. Somehow, it didn't get IN there, which kinda destroyed the humor for everybody. I do know that there are lots of "copper" devices in the signal chain (not to mention satellites, as you noted.) Verizon sometimes touts the superiority (and invulnerability) of their fiber network, and I just wanted to needle them a bit. I guess it serves me right for trying to tease them!

gb

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by geebee2K:

said by flashcore:

said by geebee2K:

I thought I would ask you guys if you were aware of system-wide issues (maybe v/v solar flares, although FIBER is SUPPOSED to be impervious to those things, isn't it?)

Thank you for your response, flashcore. In my original posting, there was SUPPOSED to be a "winking smilie" ( ) after the question mark in the sentence you cited above. Somehow, it didn't get IN there, which kinda destroyed the humor for everybody. I do know that there are lots of "copper" devices in the signal chain (not to mention satellites, as you noted.) Verizon sometimes touts the superiority (and invulnerability) of their fiber network, and I just wanted to needle them a bit. I guess it serves me right for trying to tease them!

gb

Except for the copper in my house coax after the ONT, what other "copper" is in the line from the satellite receiver at the SHE to my ONT? I wasn't aware of any, except internal to some network hardware that is likely fiber connected to the network itself.
By the way, it is highly unlikely that solar flares would impact any of the terrestrial hardware. If it did we would have known it as the levels of radiation that would pass through the atmosphere and enter an ONT, for example, would have impacted more than FiOS. As for satellites, they are hardened to survive levels above what we've been seeing. Singe even upsets could occur, but likely would have more impact on other satellite electronics (attitude control, for example) than momentary problems with repeating comm signals (which is what a comm satellite does). (Sorry for the tutorial but I was a satellite systems engineer for 28 years and I dealt with what solar radiation (and other natural space radiation) does to a satellite on a routine basis.)
Since I am in the same VHO3 as the OP and am not seeing the "tiling" he is, then clear that it's something in his leg of the network, not the network as a whole.

geebee2K

join:2011-06-24
Oxnard, CA
Thanks for the reply, PJL.

said by PJL:

Except for the copper in my house coax after the ONT, what other "copper" is in the line from the satellite receiver at the SHE to my ONT? I wasn't aware of any, except internal to some network hardware that is likely fiber connected to the network itself.

It's MY understanding that even fiber needs "repeaters", and at each repeater point, they make the transition from optical to copper and back. (I could be wrong.)

I'm also assuming that every time they need to use a router, they also transition from fiber to copper and back again. Could all of these copper items be shielded from solar flares? Probably. Does Verizon invest in the better-shielded product? Hmmmmm.....

said by PJL:

By the way, it is highly unlikely that solar flares would impact any of the terrestrial hardware. If it did we would have known it as the levels of radiation that would pass through the atmosphere and enter an ONT, for example, would have impacted more than FiOS.

It's my understanding (at least from CNN) that this is EXACTLY what's going on, in such things as older internal corporate networks which are still primarily copper. Remember, CAT-5 ain't SHIELDED; just twisted.

said by PJL:

As for satellites, they are hardened to survive levels above what we've been seeing. Singe even upsets could occur, but likely would have more impact on other satellite electronics (attitude control, for example) than momentary problems with repeating comm signals (which is what a comm satellite does). (Sorry for the tutorial but I was a satellite systems engineer for 28 years and I dealt with what solar radiation (and other natural space radiation) does to a satellite on a routine basis.)

I appreciate the input of a satellite engineer, who can maybe shed some light on things satellite!

Again, here's my understanding:
(1) Satellite transmitters tend to be very low-powered; after all, the things are running on solar panels!

(2) Because of this low-power signal, and the long distance it has to travel, the signal on Earth is actually quite susceptible to being degraded. Ask anyone who's had DirecTV or DISH; a good rain- or snow-storm can knock out the signal (or at least put it into Tile City.) I understand that the frequencies used for, say, the Cartoon Network feed are different than for DirecTV; the receiving dishes are larger, and the radiation pattern of the satellite antenna is much more focused. Still, it would seem that the same principles apply. And correct me if I'm wrong, but: doesn't EVERY satellite dish (whether 3 feet or 30) incorporate a Low-Noise Block (LNB) amplifier? This basically means that the signal is weak and scroungy.

(3) The "stuff" coming from a solar flare takes many forms; there is an electromagnetic component that travels at the speed of light. There is also a particle component, which takes a little longer to arrive. All told, there is a broad-band blast of "stuff" coming from the sun, which has been shown to actually PUSH ASIDE the Earth's shielding magnetic field.

(4) Based on all this, my question would be: how could satellite signals NOT be affected?

said by PJL:

Since I am in the same VHO3 as the OP and am not seeing the "tiling" he is, then clear that it's something in his leg of the network, not the network as a whole.

Thanks for this insight, PJL. I'm afraid that I don't know what a VHO3 is, but I'm assuming it is some level of network organization that is further "up the tree" from me. My posting in the Verizon Direct Forum has not yet been answered (although other items that were submitted AFTER mine HAVE been responded to!); I will update my posting and point them to this discussion.

Thanks,
gb

PJL

join:2008-07-24
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
VHO3 is the facility that provides what you call "the Pamona feed."

There are so many errors in your assumptions about how things really work that it would not be possible to adequately explain them to your satisfaction here.

Good luck solving your issue.