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Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31

WoW drops again

From a blog I read called "In an Age", copy pasta for those that cant open:

That is right, kiddos, WoW is down to 9.1 million. It hasn’t been this low since January 2008.

In what must only be completely unrelated news, WoW has shattered all previous records for “longest time without a new content patch.” No, seriously. Dragon Soul was released November 29th, 2011. It is now eight months later. When I relayed this to my friend, he didn’t believe me. The gap between ICC and Cataclysm felt like more than a year. Well, I said, let’s look at the timeline:

December 8th, 2009 – ICC released.
February 2nd, 2010 – final wing of ICC opened.
June 30th, 2010 – Ruby Sanctum released.
September 7th, 2010 – the gnome/troll world events start.
October 7th, 2010 – WoW hits 12 million players (!).
October 12th, 2010 – Patch 4.0.1, with all the new talents/class changes.
November 23rd, 2010 – The Shattering, all new 1-60 experience.
December 7th, 2010 – Cataclysm launch.
So, yes, in a strictly literal sense it was a whole year between ICC release and Cataclysm launch. Looking at that list though, shit happened. There was a filler raid, there were world events, and I always have a blast when we get to toy around with the next expansion’s talent changes early. In between TBC and the Wrath launch, I remember soloing most of heroic Underbog on my Ret paladin to cap out my Sporeggar reputation, for example.

Now look at Cataclysm:

November 29th, 2011 – Dragon Soul released.


August 3rd, 2012 – I wrote a blog post.
I mean, come on. A $300 million MMO was released, floundered, and went F2P in that same timeframe!

Only Blizzard gets away with this shit. Good lord.


Nightfall
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So some random blogger posts a number? Let me blog about it a bit as well and I will say 20 million. Will you believe that number as well?

Seriously though, WoW is the biggest MMO on the market today. Has the overall subscriber number went down through the years? Yes. Is it still the biggest? Yes. With MOP dropping in 2 months, I think you will see the subscriber numbers go up a bit, to probably as high as 10 million.

In the end, I am trying to figure out why "subscriber numbers" are important to some people. Do you enjoy playing the game? If yes, then why complain about 5 million subs, 1 million subs, or 10 million subs. It doesn't matter. Enjoy the game.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31
said by Nightfall:

So some random blogger posts a number? Let me blog about it a bit as well and I will say 20 million. Will you believe that number as well?

Slow your roll bro. In An Age is a well established blog in the WoW community and is hardly a "random blogger".

I was posting news on WoW, not commenting on it nor giving my opinion about the inforamtion. I think it is worth noting the corollary between subscription loss and lack of content over a long period of time however.


Nightfall
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said by Skittles:

said by Nightfall:

So some random blogger posts a number? Let me blog about it a bit as well and I will say 20 million. Will you believe that number as well?

Slow your roll bro. In An Age is a well established blog in the WoW community and is hardly a "random blogger".

I was posting news on WoW, not commenting on it nor giving my opinion about the inforamtion. I think it is worth noting the corollary between subscription loss and lack of content over a long period of time however.

I had to dig a bit to find some factual information on your number and I found it. At first glance, you probably should realize that your findings did sound like some random blogger. Probably would have been better to post a link with it. I didn't know "In an Age" from a hole in the ground and I am a long time player.

That being said, the rest of my point still stands, which you didn't address. I can agree with the overall sub number dropping and lack of content being released. What about what I said? Care to address?
--
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Immer
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reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

In the end, I am trying to figure out why "subscriber numbers" are important to some people. Do you enjoy playing the game? If yes, then why complain about 5 million subs, 1 million subs, or 10 million subs. It doesn't matter. Enjoy the game.

Sadly, gamers suffer horribly from group-think. Few have the ability to stick to their choice of favorite game when their friends insist that the new game is far superior, blah, blah, blah.

Unless Blizzard revenues are a major part of your investment portfolio, subscriber numbers are of no more importance than last years win/loss ratio of your favorite sports team.
--
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


Kilroy
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said by Immer:

Unless Blizzard revenues are a major part of your investment portfolio

Blizzard isn't the stock that you would own, it is Activision Blizzard, Inc. (ATVI)

Even then, when you have Star Wars - The Old Replublic going free to play with 1/9 the subscibers I don't think it is time to worry yet.
--
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Nightfall
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reply to Immer
said by Immer:

said by Nightfall:

In the end, I am trying to figure out why "subscriber numbers" are important to some people. Do you enjoy playing the game? If yes, then why complain about 5 million subs, 1 million subs, or 10 million subs. It doesn't matter. Enjoy the game.

Sadly, gamers suffer horribly from group-think. Few have the ability to stick to their choice of favorite game when their friends insist that the new game is far superior, blah, blah, blah.

Unless Blizzard revenues are a major part of your investment portfolio, subscriber numbers are of no more importance than last years win/loss ratio of your favorite sports team.

I have sparked this conversation on other forums and people just scoff at thinking like you and I do. EvE online is a great space sim, and the company has around 300,000 subs. No one compares EvE with WoW, but for some the sub numbers in EvE are too small. Who the hell cares? Its not like you are not running into other players while playing EvE.
--
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Immer
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1 edit
reply to Kilroy
Thanks. I wasn't sure of the stock... but regardless of stock name, its the revenues that benefit the investor.

said by Nightfall:

I have sparked this conversation on other forums and people just scoff at thinking like you and I do. EvE online is a great space sim, and the company has around 300,000 subs. No one compares EvE with WoW, but for some the sub numbers in EvE are too small. Who the hell cares? Its not like you are not running into other players while playing EvE.

Playing devil's advocate for a second, dwindling subscriptions affect the low/medium pop servers the most. Occasional dips in numbers between expansions... not a huge deal...but if subscriptions drop enough for server populations to become abysmal, then blizzard has to think about downsizing server farms (mergers, free xfers, etc). But it's a feel thing because who can recommend a threshold for that kind of thing?


puppy

join:2010-01-28
reply to Skittles
I think subscriber numbers do matter, as it influences how much resources the company puts into. If they see the game as dying, they might just pull the stars to work on something else, milking the franchise for as much as they can before it dies off completely. Not enough revenue means less server maintenance/upgrades, less content, etc.

It also matters in terms of world robustness. When I tried SWTOR, it felt like a single player game because the worlds are so sparse. Made me miss Barrens talk. I believe not being able to form groups in SWTOR made a lot of people quit.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
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reply to Skittles
"Only 9.1 million."

Not bad for a game as old as WoW. I bet 12 million will jump if/when Titan is released.


Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31
reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

That being said, the rest of my point still stands, which you didn't address. I can agree with the overall sub number dropping and lack of content being released. What about what I said? Care to address?

What about what you said, what is there to address....you state WoW is MMO and numbers have dropped but is still the biggest...who is arguing that? That numbers will increase with an expansion...wow that is a revolutionary thought..again not arguing.

Or are you referring to your last statements "In the end, I am trying to figure out why "subscriber numbers" are important to some people. Do you enjoy playing the game? If yes, then why complain about 5 million subs, 1 million subs, or 10 million subs. It doesn't matter. Enjoy the game."?

Cant answer why this is important to "some people" as I cant answer for others only myself. If you are asking me why it is important to me then I answer with this: where did you read that it was?

or are you asking me if I enjoy the game? then the answer is: at times I do, currently I do not.

So you see in the end, I posted a blog post, and as I stated in the intro it was copy pasta for those that cant open the site, but I did list the site for those that wished to do so. The fact that you have played for some time has no bearing on the whether you are familiar with established blogs in the WoW community, the fact that you were not aware of the blog seems to support that you are not.


Adalicia
Om Nom Nom

join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE
kudos:13

1 recommendation

reply to Skittles
Fun part is, assuming 9.1 million active subscriptions, that's still 1.6 billion a year and I'd expect the number to go up with the MoP release, so regardless of declining numbers you're still talking about (ignoring overhead) a revenue intake that is five times the cost of the entire production of The Old Republic.
--
Lore Nerd. Role Player. Raid Leader. Healing Priest. Slightly Annoying. Also Likes Kittens.


Nightfall
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reply to Immer
said by Immer:

Thanks. I wasn't sure of the stock... but regardless of stock name, its the revenues that benefit the investor.

said by Nightfall:

I have sparked this conversation on other forums and people just scoff at thinking like you and I do. EvE online is a great space sim, and the company has around 300,000 subs. No one compares EvE with WoW, but for some the sub numbers in EvE are too small. Who the hell cares? Its not like you are not running into other players while playing EvE.

Playing devil's advocate for a second, dwindling subscriptions affect the low/medium pop servers the most. Occasional dips in numbers between expansions... not a huge deal...but if subscriptions drop enough for server populations to become abysmal, then blizzard has to think about downsizing server farms (mergers, free xfers, etc). But it's a feel thing because who can recommend a threshold for that kind of thing?

I agree, but lets suppose that an MMO like EvE has 300,000 people and only 1 server. So all 300,000 subs are on the same server and in the same persistent world. Would it matter then?

Dwindling subs would only matter in that case if there were 1,000 servers and 300,000 subs. Warhammer Online has only 2 servers and 200,000 subs. That isn't bad either since one is oceanic and one is USA.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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reply to Adalicia
said by Adalicia:

Fun part is, assuming 9.1 million active subscriptions, that's still 1.6 billion a year and I'd expect the number to go up with the MoP release, so regardless of declining numbers you're still talking about (ignoring overhead) a revenue intake that is five times the cost of the entire production of The Old Republic.

Well also remember the Subs need to cover the cost of datacenter space and internet connection for the servers.

I'd be interested in the cost to blizzard to keep the wow servers running. Sure revenue is high but what of base costs, before you even add in upgrades and monitoring and other support of the servers.

then you have the dev costs.

But I bet WOW still comes out with a large net.


Nightfall
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reply to puppy
said by puppy:

I think subscriber numbers do matter, as it influences how much resources the company puts into. If they see the game as dying, they might just pull the stars to work on something else, milking the franchise for as much as they can before it dies off completely. Not enough revenue means less server maintenance/upgrades, less content, etc.

It also matters in terms of world robustness. When I tried SWTOR, it felt like a single player game because the worlds are so sparse. Made me miss Barrens talk. I believe not being able to form groups in SWTOR made a lot of people quit.

You would make a valid point if companies were seen halting production on low population MMOs. When games like Ultima Online are still pulling in 100,000 subs and still releasing content, then I have to say that what you are talking about is really just assuming. Could development be pulled? It happened with some MMOs like the Matrix Online.

In this case though, the largest MMO dropping to about 9 million in subs is not a case to be scared of. Especially when a new expansion pack is coming out, which in the past has generated 1-2 million in additional subs returning.
--
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Nightfall
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reply to Skittles
said by Skittles:

So you see in the end, I posted a blog post, and as I stated in the intro it was copy pasta for those that cant open the site, but I did list the site for those that wished to do so. The fact that you have played for some time has no bearing on the whether you are familiar with established blogs in the WoW community, the fact that you were not aware of the blog seems to support that you are not.

You are right, I am not familiar with your version of "established blogs" in the WoW community. Did it ever occur to you that there are others here that are not up to date on what you consider to be an "established blog" as well? Assuming that everyone is up to date on every WoW established blog will just make an ass out of you and me. Which is why all I pointed out was for you to post a factual link backing up what you copy/pasted. Or at least a link to the blog.

Sorry if you took offense to my initial comment. Just from reading your post, it just looked like a regular common joe blogger, to which there are millions of them out there. The conversation on some of the content has been stimulating so far.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


Krisnatharok
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1 recommendation

Established blog or not, the post is way off-base. His tone is "OMG NUMBERS ARE DOWN NO NEW CONTENT," yet mentioned that SWTOR faceplanted in that timeframe, even with no new content in WoW.

Only Blizzard gets away with this shit.

Blizzard isn't getting away with anything. WoW is getting older, content is slowing down, Blizz is developing subscribers' appetite for Titan, and yet WoW is still "good enough" to prevent an exodus to (what was then) the next strongest contender.

Blizzard only "gets away" with this because they put out a quality product that is the best at what it does.
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


Immer
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reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

I agree, but lets suppose that an MMO like EvE has 300,000 people and only 1 server. So all 300,000 subs are on the same server and in the same persistent world. Would it matter then?

No. That is why it is tough to have a debate using vastly disparate scales. The scaling of server/subscriptions isn't linear... there are breakpoints (like haste scaling for healers other than paladins).
--
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


Nightfall
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said by Immer:

said by Nightfall:

I agree, but lets suppose that an MMO like EvE has 300,000 people and only 1 server. So all 300,000 subs are on the same server and in the same persistent world. Would it matter then?

No. That is why it is tough to have a debate using vastly disparate scales. The scaling of server/subscriptions isn't linear... there are breakpoints (like haste scaling for healers other than paladins).

I agree. Which is why its hard to say that subscriber numbers are the end all/be all of mmo gaming. So much depends on the subscriber to server ratio, and if there are content updates still being developed. When I see small MMOs like Warhammer Online, Everquest, and even 15 year old MMOs like Ultima Online still releasing updates for only 100,000 sub games, I am less likely to believe that sub numbers are that important.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


Adalicia
Om Nom Nom

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reply to DarkLogix
I made note of that, towards the end, two words I'm parentheses. "Ignoring Overhead."


DarkLogix
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Well revenue would still be large, the gross intake would be all money they receive.

And revenue is normally Gross not net.


Skittles
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join:2011-03-31
reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:

You are right, I am not familiar with your version of "established blogs" in the WoW community. Did it ever occur to you that there are others here that are not up to date on what you consider to be an "established blog" as well?

I never made an assumption towards anyone being up to date on any blog on this forum, in fact if you go back in read my initial post I stated :

From a blog I read called "In an Age", copy pasta for those that cant open:

You see, I stated "from a blog I read", not "from a blog everyone is familiar with".

My stating that In an Age is an established blog in the WoW community was in response to you stating it was from a "random blogger" and your subsequent statement of:

"Probably would have been better to post a link with it. I didn't know "In an Age" from a hole in the ground and I am a long time player."

hence my response of In An Age being an established blog. You make the statement of "my version of an established blog"....I am cursious as to what you think an established blog may be? Azuriel the Blog's author has been blogging for sometime and links to and from his site are found in Most common WoW blogs. But it is not my place to aurgue whether you consider him established or not, but I think it would be unwise to think he is not in some form more established than a mere "random blogger".

said by Nightfall:

Assuming that everyone is up to date on every WoW established blog will just make an ass out of you and me. Which is why all I pointed out was for you to post a factual link backing up what you copy/pasted. Or at least a link to the blog.

Again never made an assumption that everyone was up to date on this particular blog and never stated one had to be to read the post, I only stated it was from a blog I read. As to posting a link, again I stated the Blog's name and the fact that the following would be copy pasta, if someone wants to try and open it at work under websense they can type in google....not hard...at all. I copy/pasta it so they wouldnt have to follow a link.

said by Nightfall:

Sorry if you took offense to my initial comment. Just from reading your post, it just looked like a regular common joe blogger, to which there are millions of them out there. The conversation on some of the content has been stimulating so far.

I never took offense, merely defending what I posted. and yes you are correct, the posts have been stimulating.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
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Earth Orbit
kudos:12

1 recommendation

It's not a big issue, in the future, please identify blogs with a link, some background or situational awareness, and then use

[bquote][/bquote]
 

This is a test test test

or

<blockquote></blockquote>
 
This is a test test test
To differentiate your own words from the copy-pasta. TBH, my first read-over attributed the author's dismissive attitude to you because it was not clear where the blog post began.

Now, back to a discussion of the content at hand, please.

--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


Nightfall
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said by Krisnatharok:

It's not a big issue, in the future, please identify blogs with a link, some background or situational awareness...

Here here! Thank you!
Not hard to understand at all.
--
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Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31
said by Krisnatharok:

It's not a big issue, in the future, please identify blogs with a link, some background or situational awareness...

Not sure what exactly is hard to understand I open the post with :

From a blog I read called "In an Age", copy pasta for those that cant open:

So it stands to reason that what follows: is the copy pasta, I did not realize this was that difficult to understand.


Immer
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reply to Krisnatharok
said by Krisnatharok:

It's not a big issue...my first read-over attributed the author's dismissive attitude to you because it was not clear where the blog post began.

you can also use
[quote][/quote]
 
quote:
If you like having it say the word "quote" for you
--
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


DarkLogix
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Baytown, TX
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also you can do
[bquote=[user=some blog]]
yadayadayoda
[/bquote]
 
if you want it to say who you're quoting

said by some blog :

yadayadayoda



Snuffbox
nice irl
Premium
join:2011-04-15
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:4
reply to Skittles
said by Skittles:

said by Krisnatharok:

It's not a big issue, in the future, please identify blogs with a link, some background or situational awareness...

Not sure what exactly is hard to understand I open the post with :

From a blog I read called "In an Age", copy pasta for those that cant open:

So it stands to reason that what follows: is the copy pasta, I did not realize this was that difficult to understand.

I'm with Skittles, I had no difficulty identifying the source of his article. Validity aside, source was clear.


Snuffbox
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That being said.

Zomg, WoW lost subscriptions.

/beat dead horse.

Old news is old.

/necro

More news @ 11:00.

(That was my entire inventory.)


Nightfall
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said by Snuffbox:

That being said.

Zomg, WoW lost subscriptions.

/beat dead horse.

Old news is old.

/necro

More news @ 11:00.

(That was my entire inventory.)

I agree. Its not a big deal. The biggest MMO lost 1 million subs. In 2 months they will gain back 1-2 million subs.
--
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