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Thane_Bitter
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join:2005-01-20
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·Bell Sympatico
reply to Mashiki

Re: [Rant] Backyard bonfires/fireplaces idiocy

There is a big difference in odour between a controlled camp fire made out of good hardwoods or cedar, and one that is just a pile of rotten old leaves. At least those folks are being courteous and not smoking up the whole area (the beer probably irons out the rest ).


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Thane_Bitter
said by Thane_Bitter:

It is screwed, peat is a great fuel source.

Happened about ten years ago or so, so it's not the end of the world. The conservation authority and the MNR are just going to let it burn to its hearts content unless it becomes a threat to people or property. They don't want to send people in unless absolutely necessary because the stuff burns underground and sinkholes 10m+ deep can form.


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

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Woodstock, ON
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reply to Thane_Bitter
said by Thane_Bitter:

There is a big difference in odour between a controlled camp fire made out of good hardwoods or cedar, and one that is just a pile of rotten old leaves. At least those folks are being courteous and not smoking up the whole area (the beer probably irons out the rest ).

I dunno, I spent enough time on a farm when I was a kid. There's a nice smell about burning leaves. Especially dry leaves burning, yeah they're not smoking up the area, actually I've never seen that problem around here within 4 or 5 blocks either. The beer though, yeah helps too. Especially a lot of the guys here like to brew their own at one of the 3 mini breweries we have in town.


andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
Smell of burning leaves is awesome.We did it here at camp one year when the air was heavy but it was also halloween so it looked great with a smoke fog pushed down by heavy air and kids going around getting candies,


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to CanadianRip
said by CanadianRip:

Bah nanny state politics.

Let me get this straight, because someone doesn't know how to have a safe open fire?

The stench, smoke, and pollution of burning leaves or most any outdoor fire (leaves are the worst) is reason enough to ban it within city limits. Safety is another issue, potentially even more important out in the country. "Because someone doesn't know how to have a safe fire?" There's no way to know who is competent and who is an idiot. But the mistakes that idiots make -- such as, let's say as a for instance, starting a forest fire and maybe causing the evacuation and destruction of an entire village -- these mistakes affect all of us.

"Nanny state?" No, in the final analysis, the reasonable protection of the common public interest is a central purpose of government.
--
"We must change our lives so that it will be possible to live by the assumption that what is good for the world will be good for us. And that requires that we make the effort to know the world and learn what is good for it."
Wendell Berry

PX Eliezer70
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join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
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Right.

I remember the smell of burning leaves too, from when I was a kid. That was about 50 years ago.

Times have changed a bit.

We know that air pollution is bad, that making smoke towards your neighbor is rude, and that not composting your leaves is wasteful.

-------------------------------------------------

Whether the present ecosystem was created by evolution, or by God, or by a combination of both, things have a purpose.

The leaves of summer and fall are excellent fertilizer for the next spring.
»greenliving.nationalgeographic.c···688.html

Burning leaves not only creates pollution, it also is downright cavalier and inefficient.


QWE111

@teksavvy.com
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by Thane_Bitter:

It is screwed, peat is a great fuel source.

Happened about ten years ago or so, so it's not the end of the world. The conservation authority and the MNR are just going to let it burn to its hearts content unless it becomes a threat to people or property. They don't want to send people in unless absolutely necessary because the stuff burns underground and sinkholes 10m+ deep can form.

Also, the fact that the Wainfleet FD does not have the resources, manpower or expertise to fight this kind of fire, and cannot afford the $5,000/day the MNR wants to even look at it. If it spreads to the Crown-owned section (it has not yet, as far as they can tell), then MNR will act, but only on the Crown-owned lands.


Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by QWE111 :

Also, the fact that the Wainfleet FD does not have the resources, manpower or expertise to fight this kind of fire, and cannot afford the $5,000/day the MNR wants to even look at it. If it spreads to the Crown-owned section (it has not yet, as far as they can tell), then MNR will act, but only on the Crown-owned lands.

If it was a big enough issue the region would put up the money to bring in the MNR. The fact that they aren't means that it's probably nothing serious and might even be beneficial for the long-term viability of the bog.


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

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Woodstock, ON
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1 recommendation

reply to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:

The stench, smoke, and pollution of burning leaves or most any outdoor fire (leaves are the worst) is reason enough to ban it within city limits. Safety is another issue, potentially even more important out in the country. "Because someone doesn't know how to have a safe fire?" There's no way to know who is competent and who is an idiot. But the mistakes that idiots make -- such as, let's say as a for instance, starting a forest fire and maybe causing the evacuation and destruction of an entire village -- these mistakes affect all of us.

"Nanny state?" No, in the final analysis, the reasonable protection of the common public interest is a central purpose of government.

Typical big city mentality. Stench, peh. Cities stink, and stink terribly. Sure there's a pollution factor, but compared to that lovely oozing haze from all those vehicles, and factories already? Negligible. Safety? Beh. "We have to watch over everyone's shoulder, because they're all small children." Please. That's the definition of a nanny state. If someone makes that large of a screw up you hold them accountable, not everyone.

The common public interest is to hold an individual accountable for their own actions. Not hold the government over everyone's head with a bludgeon saying "Do this, or else."

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by Mashiki:

said by Wolfie00:

The stench, smoke, and pollution of burning leaves or most any outdoor fire (leaves are the worst) is reason enough to ban it within city limits.

Typical big city mentality. Stench, peh. Cities stink, and stink terribly.

+ 1

Like Kilgore said in Apocalypse Now, "I love the smell of napalm in the morning." same goes for burning grass.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:

The common public interest is to hold an individual accountable for their own actions. Not hold the government over everyone's head with a bludgeon saying "Do this, or else."

It's too bad that people are generally stupid and irresponsible by nature, and you can be certain that a person who does cause massive damage and death due to their neglect will NEVER accept responsibility for their actions even after being tried and convicted.

The nanny state approach is a necessary evil to protect the population against their own sheer stupidity.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

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said by milnoc:

It's too bad that people are generally stupid and irresponsible by nature, and you can be certain that a person who does cause massive damage and death due to their neglect will NEVER accept responsibility for their actions even after being tried and convicted.

The nanny state approach is a necessary evil to protect the population against their own sheer stupidity.

Couldn't quite follow that. Are you talking about all people, or a person? Because if you're talking about all society as a whole, perhaps we should just give nanny Dalton the keys and toss on bibs for us, and he can come spoon feed us our gruel every day. If a person screws up and badly, you hold them accountable. If someone is driving a car, and hits someone, do you hold all drivers accountable for hitting that person? No. If someone is having a BBQ, and they burn down their house, do you hold everyone with a BBQ responsible for it? Well, again the answer is no.

There is no reason for a nanny state approach, you hold an individual responsible for their actions. Not society responsible for their actions.

You know what nanny states get you? The UK, NYC, and the slippery slope downhill. Hey how's that "noxious weed" act these days. I've noticed a pretty good downward swing in monarch butterflies these days(milkweed is noxious now). Enjoy that nanny state.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
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1 edit
said by Mashiki:

Couldn't quite follow that. Are you talking about all people, or a person?

All people. Even the doctors, the scientists, and especially the politicians.

said by Mashiki:

If a person screws up and badly, you hold them accountable. If someone is driving a car, and hits someone, do you hold all drivers accountable for hitting that person? No. If someone is having a BBQ, and they burn down their house, do you hold everyone with a BBQ responsible for it? Well, again the answer is no.

But that's the problem. Accountability is almost pointless after people have already died needlessly. It's especially pointless when the guilty party won't even acknowledge their mistake, or are too poor to compensate the victims.

You have two choices. Punish someone after the fact for a mistake that they've made, or take away the opportunity for them to make that mistake in the first place. That's why society demands that people take the necessary precautions before doing any kind of work, or not do the work at all such as setting fires in an environment where that fire could harm or kill other people in their immediate surroundings, either by burnt ambers starting other fires, or the potentially toxic smoke from the fire seeping into another dwelling, harming and even potentially killing the inhabitants.

Idiocy is something that must absolutely be controlled. In fact, if we haven't done so already through various regulations, there would be many more deaths caused by acts of sheer stupidity than we have now.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


urbanriot
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Canada
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reply to Mashiki
said by Mashiki:

Typical big city mentality. Stench, peh. Cities stink, and stink terribly. Sure there's a pollution factor, but compared to that lovely oozing haze from all those vehicles, and factories already?

I support in-city banning of leaf burning as, in dense areas, that leave burning smoke can come into your home, especially if you left for the day with a few windows open, and seep into your clothes.

I don't give a shit about the alleged pollution or the smell itself, when the leaves are burned, I care about the dry cleaning bill afterwards. Some dickhead near me in St. Catharines engaged in a large burning of leaves and I had to dry clean a few suits to get the smell out.

In the country? Faraway neighbours can fuck off.


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

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reply to milnoc
said by milnoc:

But that's the problem. Accountability is almost pointless after people have already died needlessly. It's especially pointless when the guilty party won't even acknowledge their mistake, or are too poor to compensate the victims. ...

So, you're going to be the first one to get your own personal government mandated nannystate supervisor for when you go out driving. After all, you *might* hit someone, and for when you go out shopping. After all, wouldn't want you to overburden the healthcare system. And for when you go for a walk, after all, you might walk into something, or trip, and become a hazard on the roadway. And if you drive to work, we need one for that. Just incase you might hit someone, we'll need someone to watch out and brake, just incase you don't. In all those cases, you're becoming a hazard to people as well, so should we wrap you up into a bubble to protect us from you too?

After all, you could be an idiot. I just don't know, and there's no way to tell. And well, you're hurtling down the road in a death metal machine, and could hit that bus shelter and kill 40 people. It's no different than anything else.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
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1 recommendation

said by Mashiki:

So, you're going to be the first one to get your own personal government mandated nannystate supervisor for when you go out driving.

We already have that. It's called license and registration.

And I'm just as susceptible to acts of stupidity as everyone else.

As for licensing walkers, that wouldn't be a bad idea! I frequently walk to work and back, and I'm amazed at how many people truly don't pay attention to where they're walking, especially those with headphones on their heads or cellphones in their hands!

And don't get me started with Montreal cyclists! Sheesh!
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


BryceS

join:2007-09-17
Vanier, ON
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to joeblow3
said by joeblow3:

They should NEVER be allowed in the city under any circumstance. It is just totally disrespectful of the neighbourhood to have an open fire for any reason.

What the hell do you do with friends in the summer time at night?

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Thane_Bitter
Look up the bylaw and then call it in. Most counties or towns require fire permits with strict rules.
I read our county rules the other day and realized that I may not have ever seen a legal fire.


Thane_Bitter
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Scroll up, you cannot make a report if no one answers the phones at city hall. I did call it in to the local PD non-emergency number as it was a nuisance.

Anyways there is no reason for burning yard waste around here unless they are stupid, dumb or just a firebug/arsonist, the city has had a yard waste collection program for years. There is no user fees for this service and one of the few useful city services local taxes are used for.


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by QWE111 :

Also, the fact that the Wainfleet FD does not have the resources, manpower or expertise to fight this kind of fire, and cannot afford the $5,000/day the MNR wants to even look at it. If it spreads to the Crown-owned section (it has not yet, as far as they can tell), then MNR will act, but only on the Crown-owned lands.

If it was a big enough issue the region would put up the money to bring in the MNR. The fact that they aren't means that it's probably nothing serious and might even be beneficial for the long-term viability of the bog.

This was VERY prominently detected last night.

»www.wellandtribune.ca/2012/08/03···ing-fire


Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
We passed through Port Colborne yesterday on our way back from St. Catharines (QEW was a madhouse, 406/58 was better) and while I tried to keep a "nose" out for smoke, I didn't detect any.


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
said by Gone:

We passed through Port Colborne yesterday on our way back from St. Catharines (QEW was a madhouse, 406/58 was better) and while I tried to keep a "nose" out for smoke, I didn't detect any.

Yesterday morning, around 6-7am, if you drove up 58 (Welland County West Side Highway section), just before Forks Rd you'd see what appeared to be a short wall of fog stretching in front of you. Your sense of smell would immediately betray that this was not fog, though. Coming back from St. Catharines, the smoke had taken up the man-made über-trench of the Trillium Railway and Townline Tunnel. It had shifted southward in the next hour and I'm not sure where it's at now.


Gone
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Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
We travelled from the man-made trench of the Trillium Railway down into Dain City and then across the rec canal via Forks to Elm which we used to head into Port Colborne. I made a point of rolling down the window to see if there was any smoke. There was not.


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
said by Gone:

We travelled from the man-made trench of the Trillium Railway down into Dain City and then across the rec canal via Forks to Elm which we used to head into Port Colborne. I made a point of rolling down the window to see if there was any smoke. There was not.

Alas, this morning at the same time, southwest Welland was blanketed in smoke. Just south, it turns to fog.


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to Gone

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to Last Parade
said by Last Parade:

Alas, this morning at the same time, southwest Welland was blanketed in smoke. Just south, it turns to fog.

fascinating


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Last Parade
Smelt something burning out in Ridgeway this evening and the smell followed us all the way to Crescent Park. Supposed to get more westerly winds tomorrow so it'll be interesting to see how far the cloud goes.


QWE111

@teksavvy.com
said by Gone:

Smelt something burning out in Ridgeway this evening and the smell followed us all the way to Crescent Park. Supposed to get more westerly winds tomorrow so it'll be interesting to see how far the cloud goes.

I could smell it yesterday, just a wee bit north of Ridgeway. Not at all today though.

Apparently the MNR is on the way now: »www.wellandtribune.ca/2012/08/09···und-fire

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

1 edit
reply to Thane_Bitter
So I read the London fire bylaw, it's the weakest I've ever read.
»www.london.ca/Fire_Dept/Fire_Saf···ning.pdf
Reads kind of like a fire etiquette guide at times. Funny even. One of the few rules is, no fires when it's rainy.
The very last line is good, it notes that burning yard waste is a violation.
Try this link for info on reporting it.
»www.london.ca/d.aspx?s=/Planning···aint.htm
Bylaw enforcement phone number and email option too.