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vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
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Why is it bad to reboot a Windows PC?

I've seen posts here with people making the statement that they avoid reboot (restarting) MS Windows at all costs. Some postings seem to imply that powering off a computer running MS Windows would be like murdering a close friend.
I do not understand these aversions. My question to these people is Why do you feel it is wrong to restart the Windows operating system? Why the adamant attitude about it?
--
i before e, except after c... weird?


dave
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join:2000-05-04
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Dunno. I mean, I leave my computers 'on' all the time (though they're quickly in a low-power state: warm RAM, pretty much everything else suspended) but don't understand why people get all exercised about it.

There's an equally vocal bunch of people that say you should always shut computers down rather than suspend or hibernate.


LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by dave:

There's an equally vocal bunch of people that say you should always shut computers down rather than suspend or hibernate.

Windows is buggy and reboots are often called for.

The first thing I always do when I get a support ticket from one of my users is to check the uptime. Most often a simple reboot fixes whatever is their issue. Often I refuse to work on the ticket if the user refuses to reboot.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey

PX Eliezer7
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reply to vaxvms

said by vaxvms:

I've seen posts here with people making the statement that they avoid reboot (restarting) MS Windows at all costs. Some postings seem to imply that powering off a computer running MS Windows would be like murdering a close friend.

Is going to sleep, murder?

If they think that their computers are sentient, then my response would be that all sentient creatures need rest and/or sleep.

Geez, this isn't HAL from the 2001 story that we're talking about!

dave
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2 recommendations

reply to LLigetfa

said by LLigetfa:

Windows is buggy and reboots are often called for.

Apparently you must be using a different 'Windows' than I am. Between work and home, I never reboot except for Windows updates that require it.

This seems to reinforce vaxvms See Profile's implicit point that there's a lot of superstition involved.


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

2 recommendations

said by dave:

said by LLigetfa:

Windows is buggy and reboots are often called for.

Apparently you must be using a different 'Windows' than I am. Between work and home, I never reboot except for Windows updates that require it.

This seems to reinforce vaxvms See Profile's implicit point that there's a lot of superstition involved.

Now in the case of the older OS's (95, 98, 98se and ME) this was the case. If you did not reboot often enough, your system would grind to a crawl.

However, I feel that problem is no longer an issue. Unless an install of a new application requires it, or I am running my monthly install of security updates from Microsoft, I don't reboot, and I don't have any problems with my system, or any of the other 2 systems in my home. One of them is Windows XP, and it never has any problems if it is not rebooted for weeks.

Back to the OP's question, I really don't see a problem to reboot a system. However, I will say that if you are in a production environment, and the "Windows PC" you are rebooting hosts your SQL Server Database and that ties in to an application that is used by 500 or so users, and you "just reboot it" without proper notification to your user base, that would be "bad", but on a whole different level!

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
reply to vaxvms

Have any of you reached the magic 1000 day uptime level on any of your Windows boxes? My current leader is an Exchange server at ~475 days.



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
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reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

Now in the case of the older OS's (95, 98, 98se and ME) this was the case. If you did not reboot often enough, your system would grind to a crawl.

Naahh I used to run my 98SE for weeks before rebooting. I discovered that I could do that after I stopped using two particular applications: ZoneAlarm and IE.

Even so a month was about all it could take.
--
Think Outside the Fox.

moes

join:2009-11-15
Cedar City, UT
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reply to vaxvms

I find if I do not reboot my gaming rig here that it's performance will take a dive, so a nice reboot once a month and it's fine and back to how it should be. plus something like corrupting my openGL and certain games will not run so I have to reboot in those cases.


Aranarth

join:2011-11-04
Stanwood, MI
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to vaxvms

I do recommend shutting machines off every night.

Even though sleep does use very little power being off uses even less.

If you have an older machine that is very slightly unstable or one that becomes unstable after a while because of memory leaks (looks at firefox) then rebooting will give you a fresh state every morning.

Other than that if it works perfectly for weeks on end using sleep, feel free to do that.

Alternatively you could use hibernate.

Some machines also do not like being in sleep and loosing power. So if you do let the machine go to sleep be sure to save all your work just in case. You could also use win7's hybrid sleep so the machine might be sleeping but if yu loose power it will boot up like it was hibernating.


dave
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reply to vaxvms

It might be worth saying why I tend to leave machines powered up overnight:

1. Because that's when backups to the backup server get made - every day around 02:00. If they're not on, they don't get backed up.

2. Because that's when updates get downloaded (but mostly not autoinstalled, except on some lesser machines) - right after the backups.


Aranarth

join:2011-11-04
Stanwood, MI
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1 recommendation

reply to vaxvms

I just thought of something else...

If they meant reboot by turning the machine off, like switching it off from a power bar WITHOUT shutting it down first...
Now, Yes, THAT IS BAD.

You should always let windows (or any modern operating system) gracefully shut down!

Reply to Dave -
For 1 - the backup server will usually turn the machine on (wake on lan), perform the backup, then shut the machine down again. But if all of your work is stored on the server like it should be, then you don't need "wake on lan" in the first place.

For 2 - just change auto updates to when you want them to be performed and the machine will apply your updates when you shut the machine down so that's not a problem. I actually prefer this so that updates do not get applied till I'm ready but to each their own.



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA

1 recommendation

reply to vaxvms

said by vaxvms:

I've seen posts here with people making the statement that they avoid reboot (restarting) MS Windows at all costs.

Agree that if they mean "force shutdown without shutting down OS is bad" that's true. You should let the OS power down the machine, as it will save anything that's cached in memory to disk cleanly. If you mean it's bad to do Start->shutdown, then no, it's not bad at all. You trade power savings for the time waiting for bootup. Nothing more or less.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


janderso1
Jim
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join:2000-04-15
Saint Petersburg, FL
reply to vaxvms

On the Windows 7 PC I use to record TV I restart it every day whether it needs it or not. I also set the power plan so that the power button does a (controlled) shutdown.
--
Jim Anderson



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
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reply to vaxvms

Some applications have memory leaks that affect performance.

A reboot resolves that, temporarily, until it leaks again.

Some people don't do system maintenance, so their drives are heavily fragmented and full of crap. It takes a long time to boot.


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to vaxvms

I reboot it mainly because of memory leaks. In a while (especially if I keep opened remote connections to other computers) memory leak becomes very noticeable and forces me to reboot. Other than that - there is no much reason to reboot (no program or OS updates, no new drivers, etc). It's WXP here, BTW. And memory leaking program is usually its Windows Explorer. I'm not against or for reboots. The only negative thing about it is - with such forced reboot I have to abandon my working environment (lot of running programs with unfinished work), which I'd prefer to keep otherwise... If I don't need computer, it goes to sleep.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



Wily_One
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reply to vaxvms

said by vaxvms:

I've seen posts here with people making the statement that they avoid reboot (restarting) MS Windows at all costs...
Why the adamant attitude about it?

I've not heard anyone ever say that. Older versions of Windows got unstable and had to be rebooted weekly if not more often. XP and Win7 (never used Vista) don't have this problem, but a monthly reboot is usually the case since patches come out on that time schedule.


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

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Woodstock, ON
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reply to Oedipus

said by Oedipus:

Have any of you reached the magic 1000 day uptime level on any of your Windows boxes? My current leader is an Exchange server at ~475 days.

Before I retired my old windows 2000 server, I was at ~600 days. Since it sat around, and simply acted as a local file server I never patched the bloody thing once it was nice and stable. Back in the 90's one of the places I worked at had a NT3.1 server that had a 731 day uptime on it. Probably would have gone longer, but the UPS on it failed during a power outage, and so did the drive. Though nothing quite beat my old BSD 1.1.5.1 box, which ran until the HDD gave out. 1100 days. Poor old Quantum drive, so noisy as that bearing was going.

Anyway, as for reboots? Meh. The biggest problems seem to be craptastic drivers causing problems more than the OS itself. You'd think that WHQL would have "fixed" that...oh who am I joking?


kvn864

join:2001-12-18
Sun City, AZ
kudos:1
reply to vaxvms

well, going to reboot right now then ..



Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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1970 442 W30
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1 recommendation

reply to vaxvms

said by vaxvms:

I've seen posts here with people making the statement that they avoid reboot (restarting) MS Windows at all costs. Some postings seem to imply that powering off a computer running MS Windows would be like murdering a close friend.

You are talking about two very different events.

First event type, a reboot using the Start Menu is 100% normal and perfectly fine. It is needed for clearing/freeing up used resources from applications/programs that have memory leaks or applications/programs that don't properly return or release memory when in use or even after closing. It is also required for system updates that have to replace "in use" files during the reboot process.

Second event type, powering off a system that is running without using Start - Turn Off or Start - Restart by using a Reset button (if equipped on case) or a Power button is a improper shutdown event that can damage or corrupt system files, damage or corrupt the system registry and any other open files.

Is it safe to turn off a Windows computer without doing a shut down?
»www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000625.htm
quote:
Question

Is it safe to turn off a Windows computer without doing a shut down?

Answer

The short answer to this question is No.

Users should not press the power button or restart the computer while Windows is still running unless there is an issue with the computer. Microsoft has included the shut down feature because it enables a computer to go through all the all the necessary steps that are required before turning off the computer. In fact many versions of Microsoft Windows will check the computer for any problems if the computer is not shut down properly.

Although you may get away with turning off the computer without performing the shut down feature it is very likely that you will eventually encounter data corruption and other issues.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


redxii
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Sherwood, MI

1 edit
reply to vaxvms

Usually to boast about uptime. Or maybe something really important is running.

I usually sleep or hibernate my computer (desktop doesn't support hibernate in Win 7 but does S3 sleep). I used to be one of those always-on people but realized it's just a plain waste of power/money. The desktop is connected to a UPS so I'm not worry about power outages.



vaxvms
ferroequine fan
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Wormtown
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reply to vaxvms

Clarification:
powering off = clean system shutdown (Start>Shut Down) resulting in no power to MoBo. Not Sleep. Not Hibernate.
--
i before e, except after c... weird?



howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
reply to plencnerb

said by plencnerb:

Now in the case of the older OS's (95, 98, 98se and ME) this was the case. If you did not reboot often enough, your system would grind to a crawl.

However, I feel that problem is no longer an issue.


Microsoft and Dell, both, have support articles that state restarting a Windows computer fixes most issues (or words to that affect). The only Windows box we have, for testing web sites, frequently gets rebooted because it slows to a crawl after a week or two of heavy testing. This was true when it was a XP box and it's true now that it's Vista.

dave
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join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
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Reviews:
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reply to Doctor Olds

Users should not press the power button or restart the computer while Windows is still running unless there is an issue with the computer.

This is archaic nonsense. Since the late 20th century (say, 1998) Wintel PCs have implemented a soft power button that, when pressed, sends an indication to the OS, which responds by doing a clean shutdown.

It's easy to see. Press button. Note how screen says something to the effect of 'shutting down'.

That link references Windows 98, so it's old (and I can't recall whether the stated info was true for Windows 98 - probably not, since '98 was the first Windows with ACPI support). But it also references XP, so the site is managed by an incompetent know-nothing.

Aranarth

join:2011-11-04
Stanwood, MI
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

said by dave:

This is archaic nonsense. Since the late 20th century (say, 1998) Wintel PCs have implemented a soft power button that, when pressed, sends an indication to the OS, which responds by doing a clean shutdown.

If I remember correctly hitting the power button does a "quick" shutdown on XP and earlier. It closes all open files (not saving changes) and then shuts the machine off. It does not do the long shutdown where processes are stopped and things are unloaded from memory. There was something about if you had unsaved work you could loose it because you do not get prompted if you want to save the file. This also caused an explosion of temp files.

Apparently there was a change on Vista and later (in programs that support it) if the file has already been given a file name it will be automatically saved during shut down. (The shutdown is a lot more graceful as well.)

My preference for getting around this possible issue was to change the power button press to hibernate rather than shutdown on XP.
Problem is that hibernate did not always work gracefully on XP and if you have lots of ram (2-3gig) it can take some time to load it all back into memory from a slow hard drive.


psafux
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join:2005-11-10
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reply to vaxvms

said by vaxvms:

I do not understand these aversions. My question to these people is Why do you feel it is wrong to restart the Windows operating system? Why the adamant attitude about it?

aside from situations were servers are involved I would be at a loss to explain the reasoning. When I am working on a system that is acting oddly, one of the first things I do is check system uptime. Rebooting has solved many issues.


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to LLigetfa

said by LLigetfa:

said by dave:

There's an equally vocal bunch of people that say you should always shut computers down rather than suspend or hibernate.

Windows is buggy and reboots are often called for.

The first thing I always do when I get a support ticket from one of my users is to check the uptime. Most often a simple reboot fixes whatever is their issue. Often I refuse to work on the ticket if the user refuses to reboot.

+100000000.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1

1 recommendation



workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
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Reviews:
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reply to Aranarth

said by Aranarth:

I do recommend shutting machines off every night.

Even though sleep does use very little power being off uses even less.

If you have an older machine that is very slightly unstable or one that becomes unstable after a while because of memory leaks (looks at firefox) then rebooting will give you a fresh state every morning.

Other than that if it works perfectly for weeks on end using sleep, feel free to do that.

Alternatively you could use hibernate.

Some machines also do not like being in sleep and loosing power. So if you do let the machine go to sleep be sure to save all your work just in case. You could also use win7's hybrid sleep so the machine might be sleeping but if yu loose power it will boot up like it was hibernating.

The amount of savings in energy will be outweighed by the shortened lifespan of the computer caused by that many thermal cycles IMHO.

When someone asks me if they should turn the PC off when not in use I ask them this.:

Do you use it daily?

If their answer is yes I advise them to leave it on all the time.

If they only use it every so often then I advise them to turn it off when not in use.

Chips, don't like to heat up then cool down too much.

They last longer when they remain at a constant temp.

Power save mode is a better option.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

2 edits
reply to vaxvms

Have You Tried Turning It Off And On Again?

***edit***

Too bad about that, youtube doesn't seem to have a clip of "the IT crowd" saying "Have You Tried Turning It Off And On Again?". Not one you can link to anyway.