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Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Doctor Olds

Re: Why is it bad to reboot a Windows PC?

said by Doctor Olds:

said by Octavean:

Have You Tried Turning It Off And On Again?

***edit***

Too bad about that, youtube doesn't seem to have a clip of "the IT crowd" saying "Have You Tried Turning It Off And On Again?". Not one you can link to anyway.

This clip?

(youtube clip)

No that wasn’t it but they are all good IMO. Funny as all get out,…


vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
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Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Mele20
Click for full size
From a 2002 Dell User's Guide. The Power button behavior is configurable. Pressing and holding the power button for 6 seconds will always result in Computer Turns Off.
--
i before e, except after c... weird?

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 edit
You are referring to Power Options Properties/Advanced button. I have not looked at that tab in over six years. I set it the day I got the computer (all of Power Options) exactly as I have set all computers set since my first one. I didn't remember there is a box there for Power Button. It says "Ask Me What to Do". I have never been asked what to do on the few occasions I have been forced to use the Power button when the computer is on. I have never been asked what to do on the rare occasions where I have the computer turned off and have to use the power button to start it. So, I guess that doesn't work. I have never used the power button on any computer when it is on (which is 99.9% of the time) except when a lockup has occurred and it is the only thing I can do. I rarely use the power button to turn the computer on because I rarely turn it off.

The only time I ever look at anything to do with Power Settings is if my screensaver or the monitor acts up. Screen saver and Stand down for the monitor were a mess on 98SE but that was due to buggy programs like one from American Express that had hardware attached to the computer preventing Stand down (monitor only) and to Power Savings itself...I recall having to uninstall and reinstall Power Savings many times on 98SE. Then on my first XP computer, the monitor would never turn off but that turned out to be an nVidia bug and was eventually fixed. After it was fixed, many years ago, I never needed to look at any of that after setting it up on the first day on a computer. My screensavers rarely act up on XP.

I recall Vista and Windows 7 have a HORRIBLE power savings interface. It took way too long, in Win 7 public beta I had, to get Windows set up like in my other computers for Power Savings. I was treated like I was about two years old and totally without any understanding of Windows and had to wade through a ton of junk to be able to set Power Savings up. Power Savings in XP is far superior as it is very fast to set up.

I remember Windows 7 actually scolded me for setting it up the way I wanted it. That was ridiculous. I have that ridiculousness to look forward to when I get a new computer.

Edit: This is hilarious. I checked one of my virtual XP machines that I have had since 2006. Evidently, I NEVER ONCE looked at the Advanced button on Power Options Properties on it. I did set Power Schemes on it though. I know I never looked at the Advanced button because it has the box next to "ask for password on resume from standby" checked. I have no password on it and I would never check that box. Under "Power Button" it has "shut down". I never would choose that option either.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

dave
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quote:
I have not looked at that tab in over six years.
quote:
I have never been asked what to do on the few occasions I have been forced to use the Power button when the computer is on.
quote:
I have never used the power button on any computer when it is on (which is 99.9% of the time) except when a lockup has occurred and it is the only thing I can do.
etc.

OK, so you don't understand the subject area and have nevertheless been telling me I'm wrong. Got it.
Expand your moderator at work


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
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reply to Octavean

Re: Why is it bad to reboot a Windows PC?

said by Octavean:

said by Doctor Olds:

said by Octavean:

Have You Tried Turning It Off And On Again?

***edit***

Too bad about that, youtube doesn't seem to have a clip of "the IT crowd" saying "Have You Tried Turning It Off And On Again?". Not one you can link to anyway.

This clip?

(youtube clip)

No that wasn’t it but they are all good IMO. Funny as all get out,…

Did you watch the video to the very end? One of the IT guys yells the exact line you mention to the remote operator of a bomb disposal robot that is not responding to commands and is running the Vista OS.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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1970 442 W30
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reply to dave
said by dave:

Not in my XP systems you didn't.

Power button = clean shutdown without user interaction.

I've got an old XP system in the basement, maybe I'll check it this weekend.

»tips.oncomputers.info/archives20···r-09.htm

Try setting your PC to "Ask me what to do" as that is what I found on mine.



--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to dave
Yep. I have been telling you that you are wrong because you are wrong.

When I press the power button (briefly) the computer is supposed to ask me what to do. No computer has ever "asked me what to do". The computer is non responsive ...unless I push for longer and then it does a nasty shutdown.

Explain to me how my computer is supposed to shut down gracefully, and without my intervention, if I have the setting on "ask me what to do"? Also, explain to me why my computer (or any computer) has NEVER asked me what to do. "Ask me what to do" is the most logical of the choices one can make but it doesn't work. Are you saying that "ask me what to do" works on your XP Pro computer? If so, then tell me how to get it work on mine.

Hibernate also does NOT work on any of my computers running XP. Hibernate works ONLY if I use Power Chute software, and it will put the computer into hibernation (and bring it out), if there is a power outage. But Hibernate as part of Power Savings, withOUT Power Chute installed, and USB connection used between APC UPS and the computer, does NOT work on XP. It works on Vista but not XP.

Edit: Simple Google search found sites saying things like this:

"Selection of “Ask me what to do” will display the shut down menu when power button will be pressed. That’s all you need to make the shut down menu appear when power button is pressed in Windows XP. "

But I have NEVER gotten the shut down menu when the power button is briefly pressed and the computer is not hopelessly locked and that is on more than one computer running XP. Power Savings is slightly better in XP than in 98SE but still is not very good because Hibernation also doesn't work, some other settings don't work, and programs like nVidia drivers can completely mess up Power Savings.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

dave
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not in ohio
kudos:8
reply to Doctor Olds
Yeah, I discovered that option from subsequent chit-chat. I think it can't be the default, since I've never used it, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

dave
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Reviews:
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reply to Mele20
You previously claimed to only use the power button if your computer is "locked up", and pretty obviously, nothing is going to work if your computer is locked up. So we can immediately ignore your complaints that the option doesn't do anything when the computer is not working.

Pretty obviously, if the computer is working, it does not shut down without intervention if you have configured it to ask for intervention. (I will cop to prior ignorance of the ask-me setting, which I think is not the default).

Pretty obviously, the computer cannot shut down gracefully, or even ask you about shutdown, if it has already crashed (=totally ungraceful shutdown) or locked up (=isn't responding to input).

As for whether 'ask me' works when not locked up, you don't have to take my word for it, Dcotor Olds has already said that it does.

As for why it never works on your computers - because your computers are different to everyone else's, and are plagued by weird problems that no-one else seems to experience.

As for hibernate - entirely different issue, though the previous comment applies as well.


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
said by dave:

As for why it never works on your computers - because your computers are different to everyone else's, and are plagued by weird problems that no-one else seems to experience.

This...

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

"Ask me what to do" is the most logical of the choices...

You have a warped sense of logic. The most logical action for a *Power* button is to turn on/off the device. Otherwise, why would laptops bother to also have a sleep button and the option to automatically sleep when the lid is closed?

If I wanted the OS to ask me questions, I'd use the illogical *Start* button to shutdown/sleep/whatever.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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1970 442 W30
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said by LLigetfa:

If I wanted the OS to ask me questions, I'd use the illogical *Start* button to shutdown/sleep/whatever.

The "Ask me" option however does have one redeeming benefit. It allows you to cancel if the button was pressed in error, something the other options don't have.....
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
Good point!

Our current standard desktop has the front USB ports right beside the power button and some of my users have inadvertently hit the power button while removing a USB stick. Since there are several USB ports in a row, I advise them to use the one furthest from the power switch.

I've also turned off my laptop by accident simply wiping the dust off. Still, given the number of times that I deliberately want to turn it off versus the odd time I might inadvertently do so, I'd rather not get asked.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
This is where we differ. I want as FULL control as possible (without that control driving me insane...example being some of the more current classic HIPS programs compared to Process Guard) so I would rarely choose "automatic" shutdown or or other options that bypasse my control. You want an easy/lazy solution which is fine (it what 95% of computer users want as they hate computers per se but like what they can do with one) but I don't want that.

I always choose 'ASK ME anytime for the OS, or browsers, or other programs such as my Antivirus Program when given that choice. (I won't use an Antivirus program that does not give me control and many today do not including Norton that folks here argue does but it doesn't). I don't even allow Process Guard to act automatically most of the time. I WANT it to ask to me EACH TIME how handle a program etc that wants to start on my computer. I don't trust AUTO crap as you NEVER know when setting something that way will come back to bite you really bad.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

dave
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join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
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Reviews:
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1 recommendation

Again the gratuitous bad-mouthing of anyone who likes anything different to you. "Lazy". "They hate computers". Where does all this bitterness come from?

In any case, a power button that shuts down the computer without asking whether you really want to shut down the computer seems unlikely to "come back to bite you really bad". And it certainly doesn't prevent you from still using the on-screen method (Start->Shutdown etc.) when you want something different.

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

This is where we differ. I want as FULL control as possible...

So, why rant? Why even bother to use the logical power button?

Use the illogical *Start* button to shutdown/sleep/whatever. Maybe you'd like the OS to ask "Are you sure?" followed by "Are you sure you're sure?".
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds:

Did you watch the video to the very end? One of the IT guys yells the exact line you mention to the remote operator of a bomb disposal robot that is not responding to commands and is running the Vista OS.

Yeah, that's "The IT crowd". Its a UK sitcom that was absolutely hilarious.  I've seen every episode on Netflix.  "Have you tried turning it off and on again" is indeed a catchphrase of the show. To them it cured all ills.


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1
reply to LLigetfa
said by LLigetfa:

said by Mele20:

This is where we differ. I want as FULL control as possible...

So, why rant?

Look who you are responding to..

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to dave
Of course, most folks hate computers. My friends all say they do. They don't want to have to learn how to use them properly. I too don't want to have to learn about some things. I had to master my complicated remote control for my new Samsung HD Smart TV. (User's manual is over 300 pages). I don't want to have to also master the remote for a set top box from my cable company, and remember all the settings on both remotes, and be able to access on both in the dark...tiny buttons, etc. So, I don't have a set top box. I get the local broadcast channels (and a few others) via clear QAM (although that will end in the next year or so probably). I can use my Samsung remote.

I don't want to have to learn how to use a tiny cellphone that strips me of all privacy and may give me cancer. So, I don't buy a cellphone. I don't miss having one at all.

So, I don't understand why folks (outside of school or business) think they have to have a computer. They don't and if they have no interest in learning how to use one properly then why buy one? Spend your money on something you will enjoy more and find more interesting and not frustrating. I know quite a few folks here who choose not to have personal computers or cell phones that have internet access. They don't feel computers/internet accessible cellphones are essential to a happy life.

You have never done anything accidentally? There should always be checks and balances. Hence, a prudent user would put the computer on "ask me what to do" if they hit the power button. (I'm talking about desktops only. I don't have experience with laptops so they may be different). A prudent user would always use the Start button to shut down as that way you have choices. But then this entire discussion is rather silly because who shuts down a desktop? They generally should run 24/7/365 except when the owner is on a vacation/trip of more than a few days.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

Libra
Premium
join:2003-08-06
USA
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to dave
Thank you for explaining about the press and release not working if I am looking at a BSOD.

I noticed further in this thread that you mentioned ACPI being related to the correct shutdown.

I ran an energy test on this computer a few months ago and it mentioned this:

"Platform Power Management Capabilities:PCI Express Active-State Power Management (ASPM) Disabled
PCI Express Active-State Power Management (ASPM) has been disabled due to a known incompatibility with the hardware in this computer."

Does that have anything to do with this?

Sincerely, Libra