davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | reply to horseathalt7
Re: Why is it bad to reboot a Windows PC? said by horseathalt7:I have an 11 year old HP Pavilion 7955 that STILL sees daily use 12 hours a day and it has ALWAYS been turned off from 12 am until 12 pm, it still functions PERFECTLY.
I have a 866 Mhz Pentium III system that has pretty much been powered up since I got it (used) in 2002, and it still functions perfectly. |
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 John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5 | reply to Anonymous_
said by Anonymous_: you do not need to disk defrag SSD hard drives.
Yes, but those are very recent. I was generally referring to the more common platter drives... |
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| reply to vaxvms
Harddrives are cheap nowdays but they are also starting to go out faster as the capacity rises and also more cheaply designed for profit. Run smart and look at the days each hd has run.
It doesn't matter what drive I have used in the last 5 years, they do not last like they used to. I have shut one pc down everynight and left one running every night but lose hd's no matter which but I do not replace as often the hd on the pc I shut down everynight. |
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LibraPremium
join:2003-08-06
USA
kudos:1 | reply to scross
I've found that a lot of times you can cure this problem on a laptop by shutting the lid for a second or two, then reopening it. There is a magnetic (or other) switch that will detect the close/open, then send a internal signal to wake up the display.
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scross,
Thank you for passing that tip along. I hope I don't experience that problem anymore, but if I do I'll keep this in mind.
Sincerely, Libra |
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LibraPremium
join:2003-08-06
USA
kudos:1 | reply to dave
A question about power button shutting down pc: I've had two BSODs in three days. I used the power button to shut down the pc and it shut down very fast. When I used power button to start computer I get the Windows screen saying it was shut down improperly and there is a critical kernel error in the Event Viewer. Is this from Windows shutting down the pc and presenting a BSOD, or did using the power button do this? (not that I had any choice).
Sincerely, Libra |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | Do you 'press and release' ?
Do you see a 'Windows shutting down' message? (I suppose this might not happen if the laptop cuts of screen power before....) |
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LibraPremium
join:2003-08-06
USA
kudos:1 | I did "press and release". I didn't see anything because I was looking at a BSOD screen which turned black when I pressed the power button. |
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 Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | said by Libra:I did "press and release". I didn't see anything because I was looking at a BSOD screen which turned black when I pressed the power button.
When you do that you then need to press "Tab, Tab, Enter" to get a Restart as this screen is hidden when the video has gone kaput.
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | Not in my XP systems you didn't.
Power button = clean shutdown without user interaction.
I've got an old XP system in the basement, maybe I'll check it this weekend. |
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 DustynPremium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:10 | reply to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds:said by Libra:I did "press and release". I didn't see anything because I was looking at a BSOD screen which turned black when I pressed the power button.
When you do that you then need to press "Tab, Tab, Enter" to get a Restart as this screen is hidden when the video has gone kaput. »www.youtube.com/watch?v=gugbMw4LigY
Are you sure it's not to order a TAB? |
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Doctor OldsI Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18 | reply to dave
said by dave:Not in my XP systems you didn't.
Power button = clean shutdown without user interaction.
I've got an old XP system in the basement, maybe I'll check it this weekend.
One single push - release of the power button makes the shutdown menu appear on all my XP systems.
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | said by Doctor Olds:said by dave:Not in my XP systems you didn't.
Power button = clean shutdown without user interaction.
I've got an old XP system in the basement, maybe I'll check it this weekend.
One single push - release of the power button makes the shutdown menu appear on all my XP systems. Even when the machine is completely locked? I find that hard to believe. The ONLY reason to ever use the power button is when the machine is hopelessly frozen and you have tried everything you can think to try to unlock it just enough to get a normal shutdown but nothing gets you that. That is when you finally, with no other choices left, resort to the power button and an improper shutdown. In this situation, a single, quick push will accomplish nothing. Only holding the button in until it does a hard shutdown works. If a single push brings about the shut down screen, and it actually will shut down normally then, well, then the power button was unneeded. You should be able to get to the shut down screen via task manager so the only time that power button is needed is when there is a total freeze with 100% CPU (or close) being utilized. In that situation, you have no maneuverability.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
3 edits | Obviously this doesn't apply to a locked-up computer. We are discussing that the power button executes a clean system shutdown.
If the computer is locked up, then clean shutdown is by definition not possible. If you could cause the shutdown program to execute, then it wasn't locked up.
As for all the crap about "the ONLY reason to ever use the power button is when the machine is hopelessly frozen", well, it's crap. If power button and Start->Shutdown are functionally equivalent, then it is simple user preference as to which you use.
Recall, I started this tangent in response to bullshit postings about how you must 'never' shut down a PC with the power button. Over a decade ago, the PC power system was re-designed so that no-one ever needed to offer that advice again. Normal use of the power button is now just a way to tell the OS that the power button was pressed (with the 'long press' as a backup in case the OS isn't listening). |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
1 edit | reply to dave
said by dave:I've got an old XP system in the basement, maybe I'll check it this weekend.
I checked.
System is XP, latest patch level, installed by me recently (the 'old' refers to the hardware), no specific power configuration, pretty much out-of-the-box.
System is sitting at the 'classic' desktop.
I pressed the power button.
The screen switched to an 'XP-style' display with darker blue bands top and bottom, saying something to the effect of 'logging you off'. That message then changed to 'saving your settings', and then it changed to 'Windows is shutting down'.
After about 20 seconds with heavy disk activity, all lights went off on the PC: the power had been removed.
So, what have we shown?
1. Power button = clean shutdown (there are OS messages saying so!)
2. Power button = shutdown without user interaction, at least as configured on my XP PC.
I suppose some of you may have Windows computers that don't do clean shutdown on power-button, but I've never run into one of them since ACPI replaced APM (around Windows 2000, I think), so I can't explain that.
Right now there are 6 Windows desktop computers in the house, and they all behave the way I describe in this post, making allowances for the fact that I described XP and 4 of them run Windows 7. (The 2 laptops are different, they're configured so power button = sleep). The two Windows PCs in my office at work behave the same way too. This is not arcane voodoo, it's just how the hardware and software are supposed to work together -- it's designed like that precisely so no-one has to say "you mustn't use the power button to shut down Windows". |
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 plencnerbPremium
join:2000-09-25
Elgin, IL
kudos:2 | Dave,
While this does show what you are taking about, I think the unknown here in this case is how long did you hold the power button.
I know on my system, if I hold it long enough, it will just power it off hard (like if I unplugged the power cord). However, if I press it for like 1-2 seconds, and then release, it does exactly what you have said.
The time duration may be different from system to system, depending on settings. But, I think that may be what people are confused about in this thread, as it relates to "using the power button to shut off the computer". Done correctly, like you have shown, it does do a "graceful" shutdown of the OS, and all is good.
However, if you hold the power button, and it instead does a "forced" shutdown (same as pulling power cord), then that is not good.
All I'm getting at is when you say "I pressed the power button" does not explain fully how long you pressed it.
--Brian
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--Brian Plencner
E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8 | said by plencnerb:While this does show what you are taking about, I think the unknown here in this case is how long did you hold the power button. Press and immediate release.
Yes, it is part of the specification that press-and-hold (3 to 4 secs) is a hard power-off.
That was covered several pages back.  |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
1 edit | reply to Libra
said by Libra:I did "press and release". I didn't see anything because I was looking at a BSOD screen which turned black when I pressed the power button.
Ah. If you're looking at the blue-screen-of-death, then you don't have a running operating system to be shut down. Windows has already crashed. You are looking at its suicide note. The improper shutdown has already happened. Nothing you can now do except to remove the power.
(Aside: why do operating systems crash? Because not crashing would be worse. The kernel ceases operation because it has discovered that it isn't working properly - and, for example, allowing a known-behaving-badly system to continue to write files may result in total file system destruction in the worst cases). |
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | reply to dave
said by dave:said by plencnerb:While this does show what you are taking about, I think the unknown here in this case is how long did you hold the power button. Press and immediate release. Yes, it is part of the specification that press-and-hold (3 to 4 secs) is a hard power-off. That was covered several pages back. Dell says you must hold the power button 10 seconds to get it to do a hard shut down not 3-4 seconds. Even if there is no lockup, pressing the power button for a couple of seconds does NOTHING on a Dell XPS (I have tried it in the past when this same discussion has come up here).
I guess Dell didn't get the message about the redesign of the PC power system. They very clearly state, as late as 2006, to never use the power button for shut down because doing so risks loss of data because the shutdown will be abrupt.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
2 edits | Documentation does not equal reality.
1) Try holding the power button down while timing until the power goes off. I bet it's under 10 secs. In any case that's a detail: the point is that there are separate soft-off and hard-off actions, distinguished by press time.
2) Since the PC *does* implement ACPI (it's a fundamental piece of the architecture, not an individual vendr choice), it is surely a matter of configuration as to what the soft power button does. Have you looked at the settings? |
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LLigetfa
join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1 | I'm not sure if it's real or imagined, but I have the impression that using the power button shuts down a little faster than using the Start button. I take my laptop home every day and so power it off twice a day or more if I need to take my laptop somewhere at work.
I work in IT and have the need to power off/reboot many computers. I always opt for the power button first and the Start button last. When it comes to reboots, if in front of the unit, I will power it off and then power it back on rather than issue a reboot via Start. There is a satisfaction knowing there was a full power cycle versus just a software cycle.
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Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey |
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