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HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning to elitefx

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to elitefx

Re: Rogers New Ultimate Package

said by elitefx:

In all seriousness, I have never understood why Rogers packages are not say, 20/20, 30/30/, 50/50 etc. And why is there only a 4mbps difference between Extreme and Extreme Plus. When you step back and look at things, it's way out of sync. As far as the "new" Ultimate goes, 150/10 is so far out of whack it doesn't make sense. 150/75 would be reasonable for that kind of cash. Most folks these days spend half their time uploading.
And with bandwidth costing Rogers next to nothing these days (forum news) why not return to Unlimited status? I mean, if Rogers can give away $700 IPads, $400 XBoxes etc. Surely they're not making that big of a buck on Overage charges. As it stands now, it's just nickel and diming the customer.

Cable is upstream constrained. The frequency split on HFC networks is such that upstream resources are limited. That's why you don't see 20/20, 30/30 and 50/50...

elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

4 edits

elitefx

Member

said by HeadSpinning:

Cable is upstream constrained. The frequency split on HFC networks is such that upstream resources are limited. That's why you don't see 20/20, 30/30 and 50/50...

Yea, apparently + currently in N. America Rogers and the rest of them are using the lower end of the spectrum (5-23mhz) to pump out their so called digital uploads. It's actually a digital over analogue network. All this high def cable/Docsis 3 nonsense Rogers is passing off as Digital is really the same old analogue system used for the past 60 years or so. They get away with it using QAM. QAM stands for Quadrature Amplitude Modulation. QAM is used to transport digital information over an analogue transmission network. Quadrature amplitude modulation (QAM) which is both an analog and a digital modulation scheme. It conveys two analog message signals, or two digital bit streams, by changing (modulating) the amplitudes of two carrier waves, using the amplitude-shift keying (ASK) digital modulation scheme or amplitude modulation (AM) analog modulation scheme. The two carrier waves, usually sinusoids, are out of phase with each other by 90° and are thus called quadrature carriers or quadrature components — hence the name of the scheme.

Our upload speeds will always be crippled until Rogers comes out of the stone age and actually delivers real digital cable internet/television. Once again I feel sorry for all the hapless victims out there paying an arm and a leg for a Rogers Digital terminal etc. when it's the same ole cable analogue network they've had for years.
On the Internet side, that's why there's no channel bonding and 2 of my 4 upload channels are shut down by Rogers. Rogers would need to use up to 65mhz to deliver the goods.
Some networks are not yet equipped to enable upstream transmissions up to 65 MHz, they have a “low split” which stops at a lower frequency, e.g. 23 MHz.

Always wondered why Rogers was so anxious that everybody get one of their boxes. All the terminal does is take a digital signal and convert it to run on an analogue network but in a high resolution format so folks will think it's true digital TV. If you want real Digital then switch to satellite because Rogers aint where it's at.

Facts courtesy of:
"Cable Network Handbook
Date: October 1, 2009
Version: 4.3"

yyzlhr
@rogers.com

yyzlhr

Anon

And what technology do you suppose Rogers and other MSOs use? QAM is used by practically every cable provider in the world in some way, shape, or form.

Cable Dude 5
@rogers.com

Cable Dude 5

Anon

Man, his info is very erroneous at best. First of all the standard bandwidth used for upstream traffic in North America is 5-42 MHZ, not 5-23 MHZ. Europe uses 5-65 MHZ approx. In Fact, FIOS uses QAM as well and that's delivered over Fibre. Cable cannot deliver Ethernet in its pure form over cable. Square wave for digital is not possible over CATV, but QAM does a very effective job of delivering 1's and 0's, or digital data, it's just not square wave. Yes, it's an analog representation of digital data, but its still digital. CATV is NOT an analog network, it's an RF Network that uses RF signals modulated at many different frequencies to deliver tv signals and internet. Another fact, most of the large MSO's already have FTTN architectures in place, with short runs of coax to the home. That could be eventually expanded to deliver fibre to the home, or in select buildings that already have optical nodes, the spare bandwidth on existing fibre can be split off to deliver 1Gbps services over ethernet, bypassing any RF connections. CATV systems are far from obosolete.

QuantumPimp
join:2012-02-19

1 edit

QuantumPimp to elitefx

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to elitefx
said by elitefx:

Once again I feel sorry for all the hapless victims out there paying an arm and a leg for a Rogers Digital terminal etc. when it's the same ole cable analogue network they've had for years.

I admit I don't fully understand the point of this rant. Signals are a function of amplitude, phase, and frequency. Digital signals are encoded using these attributes. OK. And this is bad, particularly to the fools who are not aware, why exactly?

Maybe I impress easily but the advancement in low level encoding technology and the resulting gain in usable bandwidth is really impressive. If there is anything to complain about its the lack of investment in packet buffering and queueing technology so that voice and video applications are consistanty smooth and usable. I believe some of the foot dragging is because fixing these issues will lead to cannibalizing existing voice and video infrastructure. The cash cows have been milked. It's time for the telcos to move more quickly.

elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

1 edit

elitefx to Cable Dude 5

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to Cable Dude 5
said by Cable Dude 5 :

Man, his info is very erroneous at best.

Well, don't let the truth and cold hard facts sway your opinion in any way. I didn't write the handbook. And as far as "Yes, it's an analog representation of digital data, but its still digital" well....if people choose to believe that a "representation" of something is the same as the real thing that's their choice. I just reported the facts as presented to me.

The Cable Network Handbook can be downloaded here: »docbox.etsi.org/Etsi_Cen ··· v4-3.pdf
Rayson
join:2004-01-01
Canada

Rayson to Cable Dude 5

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said by Cable Dude 5 :

Man, his info is very erroneous at best....

Square wave for digital is not possible over CATV, but QAM does a very effective job of delivering 1's and 0's, or digital data, it's just not square wave. Yes, it's an analog representation of digital data, but its still digital. CATV is NOT an analog network,

+1

Almost every "digital" signal used in the real world is an analog representation of digital data.

Rise time & fall time can't be zero, and so we can't get a perfect square wave.

elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

elitefx

Member

said by Rayson:

Rise time & fall time can't be zero, and so we can't get a perfect square wave.

Well, to layman like myself I find this whole issue a revelation. I'll bet 99% of Rogers Digital subscribers had no idea that they were purchasing a "simulated/representative" Digital Package. Would it have affected their decision to choose Rogers over satellite, who knows? But they should have been aware of this info when making their decision.
Is this important? It would be to me. Let the customer decide.
Thanks to all the members here that actually know about this stuff. You make this forum a great place to learn.

Pesterd
@rogers.com

Pesterd

Anon

Went from Rogers bringing higher download speeds to 'Digital vs Analog'

>_>

Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium Member
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON

Tx

Premium Member

said by Pesterd :

Went from Rogers bringing higher download speeds to 'Digital vs Analog'

>_>

Pissing contests and debates are the norm on these forums these days

QuantumPimp
join:2012-02-19

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said by elitefx:

Well, to layman like myself I find this whole issue a revelation. I'll bet 99% of Rogers Digital subscribers had no idea that they were purchasing a "simulated/representative" Digital Package. Would it have affected their decision to choose Rogers over satellite, who knows? But they should have been aware of this info when making their decision.

All digital signals are "simulated" using analog waves over a physical medium. The analog waves are measured using amplitude, phase, and frequency. This includes cable, satellite, ethernet, wireless, fibre, ... everything.

Rogers and Bell take compressed feeds from a content provider via satellite, decode, re-encode for their purposes usually compressing even more than the source feed, send to the consumer where the signal is decoded and re-formatted for display. The constant decoding, and re-encoding causes all kinds of digital artifacts that makes content look like shit ... particularly compared to a better quality source like BluRay.