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nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
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reply to ArgMeMatey

Re: A picture is worth 3 words...

To answer your question and a few others:
The biggest issue is de-rating. These are all power circuits.
The circuits would all have to be derated 45%.
Judging from the neutral count, it appears something went horribly awry as well.
All mwbc's must be grouped and properly identified.

Ordinarily there would be several smaller conduits leaving the panel; rather than 1 giant conduit.
The other conduits you see are from the vanilla box (lights, sidewall outlets, HW, emergency lighting, 1 HVAC RTU.
While there is no "set" color code, when established it should be followed. The feeder coming in is tagged out properly ABC Black Red Blue. (This is a common 120/208 3 phase service)

Finally, poor workmanship in and of itself is a code violation. When all else fails 110.12.
--
...because I care.


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
reply to ArgMeMatey
said by ArgMeMatey:

This was back when it cost $25 a roll.

$55/roll + 8.5% tax today.


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
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reply to nunya
said by nunya:

To answer your question and a few others:
The biggest issue is de-rating. These are all power circuits.
The circuits would all have to be derated 45%.
Judging from the neutral count, it appears something went horribly awry as well.
All mwbc's must be grouped and properly identified.

Ordinarily there would be several smaller conduits leaving the panel; rather than 1 giant conduit.
The other conduits you see are from the vanilla box (lights, sidewall outlets, HW, emergency lighting, 1 HVAC RTU.
While there is no "set" color code, when established it should be followed. The feeder coming in is tagged out properly ABC Black Red Blue. (This is a common 120/208 3 phase service)

Finally, poor workmanship in and of itself is a code violation. When all else fails 110.12.

Thanks. WI did not require derating until some time after 2002, I think. I've got a couple of conduits with multiple MWBCs but they are grouped ... which is also why I have both white and gray for the grounded.

At one place where I lived in the 90s, they ran all the NM-B through a single 1-1/2 or 2" conduit stubbed out of the top of the load center.
--
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to nunya
Nipples under 24" do not require derating (that 24" includes the connector and the bushings, too). You can cram the pipe full as you can.

And notice that I said UNDER 24"...you ain't see a Sparky cry until the AHJ tells him that pipe is exactly 24"...and the install doesn't pass.

Code be da Code...


nunya
LXI 483
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join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
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1 recommendation

reply to ArgMeMatey
De-rating isn't anything new. It doesn't matter what state you are in, the laws of physics still apply. I think it's safe to say that it's been a code requirement for a long time. I would guess over 100 years.

FWIW, going back to 1962 (the earliest I could find) it looks like WI just takes the NEC and adds their own little pre-cursor to the front with some minor amendments.
Basically, it's called the the WI electrical code, but it's really just the same NEC that almost everywhere USA uses.
--
...because I care.


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
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said by nunya:

De-rating isn't anything new. It doesn't matter what state you are in, the laws of physics still apply. I think it's safe to say that it's been a code requirement for a long time. I would guess over 100 years.

FWIW, going back to 1962 (the earliest I could find) it looks like WI just takes the NEC and adds their own little pre-cursor to the front with some minor amendments.
Basically, it's called the the WI electrical code, but it's really just the same NEC that almost everywhere USA uses.

I should know by now that if I don't properly qualify and source my statements in this forum they will be refuted and rejected.

You are right of course that derating has been around since the beginning of time. I was referring to a specific provision Wisconsin had (Comm 16.30) in 1999 which is what was relevant to my situation.

quote:
ARTICLE 310
CONDUCTORS FOR GENERAL WIRING
Comm 16.30 Ampacities for conductors rated
0-2000 volts [NEC 310-15].
(1) ADJUSTMENT FACTORS [NEC 310-15(b)(2)]. This is a department exception in addition to the exceptions specified in NEC 310-15(b)(2)(a):
Exception No. 5: The derating factors shown above do not apply
to branch circuits supplying an individual dwelling unit.

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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to nunya
I don't see a problem. The wires are very pretty and shiny. Obviously all is good!


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to TheMG
Auction sale when a supply house shut down. Really good deal on wire.


leibold
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join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
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reply to nunya
said by nunya:

While there is no "set" color code, when established it should be followed.

With the notable exception that it is expressly prohibited to use either a solid green or green with yellow stripe conductor for any purpose other then grounding ( 250.119).

In my opinion that makes John Galt See Profile's discovery of all green wiring even worse then the patriotic wiring you found (however not by much). At least our patriot had the option of using phase tape to mark each wire appropriately (it is not permitted to mark a green wire to use if for other purposes).
--
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rockotman
...Blown On The Steel Breeze
Emerging Research
join:2000-08-06
DSotM
kudos:2
reply to nunya
Are the three word "brother in law" or "whiskey tango foxtrot"?

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
I figured some sort of phrase that started with "All" and ends with "up."

neonturbo

join:2009-02-27
Lansing, MI
reply to rockotman
said by rockotman:

Are the three word "brother in law" or "whiskey tango foxtrot"?

I was thinking the three were OMG, but your version works too.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
reply to nunya
Look at the bottom of the picture (under the picture).
--
...because I care.


herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
reply to John Galt
said by John Galt:

Nipples under 24" do not require derating (that 24" includes the connector and the bushings, too). You can cram the pipe full as you can.

Which is how Generac gets away with stuffing 16 circuits plus feeders worth of wires in a 1.25" conduit on their transfer switches.