Topic 'Re: [Poll] First to MoP' in forum 'World of Warcraft' - dslreports.com

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 13:25:28 EDT

DarkLogix posted : BTW if anyone knows a good 25man guild that starts raids around 9:30pm CST (or 10pm CST) let me know

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 13:25:11 EDT

Immer posted :

I meant that for 25man raider groups if they wanted to use 25man just to quickly gear 10 people they could do it fast (that's what the #1 guild on the server I'm on does, They get a new person then carry then through 25H for a few weeks then put him in a 10H group)

so we agree.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 13:21:22 EDT

bTU posted : They died because most people in them only wanted the epeen stroking of having the higher ilvl gear. I know if you went into ICC 25 with 25 people in all ICC 10 gear you were going to be in for a rough night since it was tuned for 25m gear. And that's where it was all at, and is now. Pre nerf raids are tuned for whatever gear lvl Blizz deems appropriate. They designed encounters based on number of people and gear lvl. So in Wrath 25m raids had more health, hit harder and in a few cases had an extra mechanic to deal with because Blizz figured if you were all geared in 25m gear from the previous tier you should have a reasonable chance to down the boss. But, when you go into 10m encounters with half a tier or even a full tier higher gear than Blizz designed a fight for, it's going to seem easier as hell. Plus, in the past 25m guilds did tend to attract the better players who wanted the aforementioned epeen growth for the better gear, so the average skill levels were also higher for them going in.
--
He who controls the Spice, controls the universe.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 13:16:04 EDT

DarkLogix posted : I meant that for 25man raider groups if they wanted to use 25man just to quickly gear 10 people they could do it fast (that's what the #1 guild on the server I'm on does, They get a new person then carry then through 25H for a few weeks then put him in a 10H group)

Then again if a guild is running 25's weekly and just have a few people absent then they can easily form 2x 10man and it'll make the 10man easy.

From my experience its just easier to find 10 good players, Once I joined a simi-pug that was doing DS (I joined on the 2nd boss because I had joined a fail group earlier in the week) and the f***ing melee wouldn't MOVE the F*** out when it was at 7 stacks) (that group formed because a guild had to much interest in DS that week but not quite 25people.)

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 13:05:27 EDT

Immer posted : Observation error. You are talking about how easy it is for a 25m raiding group to form up a hard-hitting 10m. In that 25m group, you only need to gear up 10 of them to create your hard-hitting 10m group. It still takes a while to gear up the full 25m crew. But the real kicker in your example is the notion of finding 10 top notch players from a 25m raiding group to stack the deck for a 10m. That has nothing to do with the comparative difficulty of 10m raiding vice 25m raiding. That is like saying a 10m raiding crew can roflstomp heroic dungeons as long as 5 of the raiding group is geared.

10m vice 25m are pretty close as far as the design of the content goes... there are + and - to each... down to a per-boss basis. The biggest challenge to 25m is getting 25 people together and cooperating.
--
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 12:38:23 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by bTU:

said by Treebark:

Sorry, me, JB, and a few other older posters are used to 25 man guilds.
That is why we thank 10's are easier.

They were for you in Wrath, because you'd be hitting up reg 10 man raids like ICC which had the first wing tuned to ToC 10 reg gear while you were in ToC 25 H gear which was a higher ilvl than 10 man reg ICC dropped.

Plus when you dropped 15 people your 25 man guild ran in with 10 of its best people so you had no one to carry and could still pick people with classes who had buffs that complimented each other.

In ICC 10 and 25 were very different, basically a half tier apart.

And now if your in a 25man group you're getting drops faster so you could gear up a 10man group really fast with 25's and then have the cream of the crop players fully geared and switch to 10man heroic if you wanted.

But for me it is more fun to be in a 25man raid, just can't find the group because many 25man guilds died

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 12:34:41 EDT

bTU posted :

said by Treebark:

Sorry, me, JB, and a few other older posters are used to 25 man guilds.
That is why we thank 10's are easier.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 12:20:20 EDT

cymraeg posted : Ret feels clunky, the changes to censure and the addition of hammer, it feels like vanilla again tbh, just when you do get to hit something cause you can be gcded with nothing to do for a sec or so it hits harder, i shelved my ret until i feeel more comfortable with how the new rotation will go, and now judgment is a physical damage not a spell, more fun with censure.
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
If you say you burned my map, I'll nail your tits to the table!

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 11:53:38 EDT

Snuffbox posted : I KNOW there are more Ret paladins out there... I see you guys everywhere, where are your votes?

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:23:12 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by JB:

just was saying the quality of 25man pugs would be terrifying (think more fail LFR, if that is possible) where as hoping in a 10man pug, maybe you could get lucky a score a guild run.

regardless, we're talking about something that isn't going to happen =P

Well when a guild is short that 1 person and have to pug to fill it then that'd be my shot.

Ya its very easy for a 25 full pug to get horribad but then if one is good then it can be great.

As I said in wrath there was a weekly 25man ICC pug that was over 50% pug and it was a great group, though they didn't down LK in 25man mode.

the 10 that were in the same guild would down 10man LK each week though, just a little issue with pugs there.

My point is good 25man pugs (or at least ones that aren't horribad) are out there (might be hard to find though)

And if I found a 25man raiding guild that raids at a time that's good for me then it'd be awesome.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:18:24 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by Treebark:

Sorry, me, JB, and a few other other posters are used to 25 man guilds.
That is why we thank 10's are easier.

Ya I just haven't had much luck finding one that raids late enough at night.

I don't get home till 8:30-9pm cst so most guilds are already done for the day or are already well into the raid.

I just joined a new guild the other week but they have trouble getting a full 10 people on (the guild run last week had 1 pug i it till spine)

BTW I have the same opinion 10's are easy. But I wipe to the attendance boss.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:17:13 EDT

JB posted : just was saying the quality of 25man pugs would be terrifying (think more fail LFR, if that is possible) where as hoping in a 10man pug, maybe you could get lucky a score a guild run.

regardless, we're talking about something that isn't going to happen =P
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:15:01 EDT

Treebark posted : Sorry, me, JB, and a few other older posters are used to 25 man guilds.
That is why we thank 10's are easier.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:14:07 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by Treebark:

I read his shit and disagree! 25 man with guild, and pug 10 mans!

Well if my guild had the people to do 25mans then YES great.

I'd love to do 25mans, but the current guild can't and I'd rather sample guilds first before losing all the rep I built up and leaving a guild to find a replacement.

And at that point it'd be 10's and 25's with guild
I mean once the guild has the people to do 25's why pug a 10 just guild run it after the 25.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:12:39 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by JB:

said by DarkLogix:

said by Treebark:

The 10 man/25 man lock out should go back to the way it was!

If that happens then I'd be over joyed.

I could run the 10 with my guild and join a pug for 25.
And use the pug to find a good 25 group that raids at a time that works for me.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to do the opposite, don't ya think?

Well my current guild only has the people to do 10mans.

Joining 25man pugs would be a good way to find a group that does 25mans and is good, then see about changing guilds.

So far every guild I've joined with the intent of raiding I've first joined a pug that was mostly them, then asked if I could join their guild and was told yes. (well short of one guild I joined but that was because the others all joined it when they left the old guild.)

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:12:15 EDT

Treebark posted : That's what Barry Stinson would do!

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:10:25 EDT

Treebark posted : I read his shit and disagree! 25 man with guild, and pug 10 mans!

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:08:56 EDT

JB posted :

said by DarkLogix:

said by Treebark:

The 10 man/25 man lock out should go back to the way it was!

If that happens then I'd be over joyed.

I could run the 10 with my guild and join a pug for 25.
And use the pug to find a good 25 group that raids at a time that works for me.

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to do the opposite, don't ya think?
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:06:18 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by Treebark:

The 10 man/25 man lock out should go back to the way it was!

If that happens then I'd be over joyed.

I could run the 10 with my guild and join a pug for 25.
And use the pug to find a good 25 group that raids at a time that works for me.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 10:04:57 EDT

Treebark posted : The 10 man/25 man lock out should go back to the way it was!

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 09:52:24 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by Treebark:

I dont know, 10 mans, you can only have a few fuck ups, 25 mans, so many people can still carry. Couldnt in the start but got easier for 10 mans. 25 mans are still more epic unless the 10 man is a close group.

Ya running 25's is awesome.

Waiting for the last 10 people to show up for over an hour and then having to tell 5 people sorry maybe next time stinks, then having the 10 you'd been waiting for show up mid boss fight.

I'd love to be doing 25's but the attendance boss is a killer.

If they make the legendary(s) in MoP 25man only then they need to split the lock otherwise its crap.

Back in wrath the pug I was joining week after week was running 25 and 10 every week, till the lock change, then it changed to guild only and 10man.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 09:44:47 EDT

Immer posted :

said by JoelC707:

What I hate the most are the asshole hunters who leave pack on during Hagra. It sucks on her lightning phase -_-

should be easy to fix in a normal raid. Heck, the last hunter that did that in LFR got FLAMED hard core.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 09:42:05 EDT

McBrain posted : I agree that H Hagara is much easier with 25 people.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 09:31:08 EDT

Treebark posted : I dont know, 10 mans, you can only have a few fuck ups, 25 mans, so many people can still carry. Couldnt in the start but got easier for 10 mans. 25 mans are still more epic unless the 10 man is a close group.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 09:30:48 EDT

JB posted :

said by Vinceruos_t:

"currently there really is no reason not to LoLsteamroll10mans."

I am not sure what you are talking about. 25 man is wayyyyyyyyyyyy easier then 10 man is by a pretty large amount for several reasons. The only thing that makes 25 man "harder" is that its more of a pain to find get the logistics down of getting 25 people on at the same time. And yes I have done both 10 and 25 man for every raid this expac.

Me too, and I've done 8/8H DS and H FL on both of them. The one fight I can think of in H DS that is 'harder' on 10man is a melee heavy gunship comp. First time we had an all ranged group comp it was a 1 shot, next time we had 3melee/2ranged it took us a handful of attempts, but still easily doable. H Hagara is about the same after seeing the fight more than once in 10man, but the strats for that fight are much simpler in 25m.
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 09:09:31 EDT

Vinceruos_t posted : "currently there really is no reason not to LoLsteamroll10mans."

I am not sure what you are talking about. 25 man is wayyyyyyyyyyyy easier then 10 man is by a pretty large amount for several reasons. The only thing that makes 25 man "harder" is that its more of a pain to find get the logistics down of getting 25 people on at the same time. And yes I have done both 10 and 25 man for every raid this expac.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 08:58:17 EDT

McBrain posted : Rogue was Combat and Warlock was Affliction.

It was bad. Lol.

That being said, my Enhancement Shaman is a damn beast. I am very hard pressed to find ANYONE who can out dps him that isn't nearly full heroic geared, and he is at ilvl393...I know it is the end of the expac and all and people aren't trying hard, but I am loving the state that this guy is in PvE-wise. Now if Blizzard could just somehow equivocate that to PvP I'd be all set.
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

�Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.�

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 08:11:11 EDT

Treebark posted : I am just pissed that my logitech g700 gaming mouse has had one too many travels and now it is broke, back to doing more clikcing, sucks balls.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 08:06:39 EDT

Treebark posted : Snuff! Either my dirty druid or I may roll very casual and level a pally or a fat bear panda.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:58:31 EDT

JoelC707 posted :

said by DarkLogix:

BTW I still don't get whats up with Pali's almost every time that I'm in a raid with more than 2 (sometimes even with 2) they put on the same aura, and its like they don't even try

Maybe it's because my pally was the last 85 and I'm trying to be, oh I dunno, good at him; I seem to be one of the few that don't do this. When I hop in an LFR I usually start cycling thorough my auras (excluding crusader lol) to see when I actually get a new one to show up. When I do I know I found one every other pally isn't using lol. If they're magically all covered I'll usually just go back to ret aura. I'm sure there's some addon that can tell me what pally is using what aura but alas it's just as easy to cycle through them.

What I hate the most are the asshole hunters who leave pack on during Hagra. It sucks on her lightning phase -_-

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:13:59 EDT

Nick D posted : That's my point. The only way 25 mans work is to have better items in them. It's why they worked in Wrath. It doesn't need to be literally EVERYTHING, but if you say "you only get your BiS weapon, which is a ~~legendary~~ elite, from consistently raiding 25 man", you will have a lot more people willing to handle the organizational restrictions involved in getting those groups/guilds together.

Still all speculation. Drops in beta are probably all whacky to ensure the quests get tested, or just to get feedback on possible situations.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:11:50 EDT

Nick D posted : Every goddamn hunter who pugs and doesn't have a Dragonhawk/Wind Serpent makes me so sad.

Stable should be:
Cat for soloing/5 mans (because really when was the last time you raided without a DK, warrior, or shaman?)
Wolf (which seems to not make the cut in most of my groups; lots o' fury warriors, ferals, and ele shamans. Even the occasional sub rogue)
Dragonhawk/Wind Serpent (because no rogues play mut, only a few moonkins, and warlocks are still the least played class)
Ravager (rogues and frost DKs are more plentiful than above)
Whatever for the 5th (best is probably Raptor for sunder, but I end up in groups with a lot of warriors and cats. Hyena if you're really hard up for bleeds and your rogues cry. Otherwise, a tank pet is just fine, or whatever you find prettiest)

EDIT:

The missing buffs in that group are Stats (the big one, I'd admit), 5% crit (unless rogue was sub), 3% damage, and Replen (unless warlock was destro). Hunters can solve the first three (though admittedly only by being BM). So it really wasn't TOO bad.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:09:50 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by McBrain:

said by DarkLogix:

Ya last week we didn't have a druid and only one pali.

Ya, in 25 you'd assume you'll have everything but in 10man you have to be careful to get everything.

BTW I still don't get whats up with Pali's almost every time that I'm in a raid with more than 2 (sometimes even with 2) they put on the same aura, and its like they don't even try

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:07:25 EDT

DarkLogix posted : If the drop rate is 100% and you just need 10 of each that doesn't sound legendary.

Sounds more like ok run this for 10weeks and you'll have your thing if your guild picks you first, then 10 more weeks and #2 gets it.

IMO that's just crap. and sounds like the road to legendaries for everyone.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:06:50 EDT

McBrain posted :

said by DarkLogix:

Ya last week we didn't have a druid and only one pali.

Last week I did a DS 10, this was the make-up:

Warrior Tank
Rogue
Hunter x2 (both sucked nuts and used cats)
Enh Shaman (me)
Frost DK
Warlock
Resto Shaman
Disc Priest
Holy Priest

Talk about lack of buffs...
--
McBrain#1558 - Barbarian/Monk

�Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.�

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:04:22 EDT

Nick D posted : Just clarifying.

It's a pretty reasonable solution. Though it does depend on the nature of the legendary.

"Hey I'ma join a 25 man guild as a warrior because I can help a dude get a caster staff!" -that won't fly

"Hey I'ma join a 25 man guild as a warrior because everyone gets a legendary gem that gives them +500 primary stat!" -there's a good incentive

I suppose calling it a legendary at this point becomes silly. Let's go with the new "elite" moniker that they're using for doing a fight the extra hard way.

Have elite tags been discussed on this site? I forget.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:03:25 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by Nick D:

Compromise JB: legendaries for 25 man, same gear otherwise?

That might be where it's heading. Keeps the legendary pool for dedicated guilds, and a much better incentive to raid 25s than a few more valor points.

If they do that I'm gonna have to get a new guild again, and I had just found one that raids at a time that's good for me.

But I bet its just loot tables aren't final

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:01:52 EDT

JB posted : I didn't say anything about 10v25m gear. That being the same is fine. 25man only legendaries would definitely give guilds a reason to run 25s again, currently there really is no reason not to LoLsteamroll10mans.
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:58:22 EDT

Nick D posted : Compromise JB: legendaries for 25 man, same gear otherwise?

That might be where it's heading. Keeps the legendary pool for dedicated guilds, and a much better incentive to raid 25s than a few more valor points.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:54:17 EDT

Nick D posted : I'm hoping they allow cross-real DS in 5.0 (as in the expansion pre-patch). I'm sure they'll continue the trend of "everything but current tier".

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:54:11 EDT

JB posted :

said by bTU:

That's actually what can make being in a 10 man guild harder. No class and spec stacking for all optimal buffs and no stacking the FOTM class whether for tanks, DPS or heals.

Because you can't do that in 10man :huh:
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:42:19 EDT

DarkLogix posted : Ya last week we didn't have a druid and only one pali.

So only 1 of those 2 buffs.

then we didn't have the 5% haste buff

On the upside the lock game me DI.

Still we were able to do a full clear with 3 heroics, seems normally they have a 3rd healer with MS DPS so they opted not to do warlord on heroic.

And I'm so far still hopeful than come MoP we'll be able to jump into it.

BTW any word on Xrealm raiding DS when MoP hits?
It'd still be nice to finish out DS-heroic for the achev and maybe do the meta.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:35:24 EDT

bTU posted : That's actually what can make being in a 10 man guild harder. No class and spec stacking for all optimal buffs and no stacking the FOTM class whether for tanks, DPS or heals.
--
He who controls the Spice, controls the universe.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:31:49 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by bTU:

said by JB:

said by Nick D:

So maybe they're going back to 25-man-or-bust for legendaries?

Sure hope so.

That would just be fucking retarded if they did. I hated that whole thing in BC and Wrath that you had to be in a 25 man raiding guild to see certain things, or get better gear. Just because someone is in a guild with less people in it doesn't mean they should be left at the wayside for legendaries if they and the guild they are in have the skill to raid but not the people for 25's.

Ya

then again its annoying when you have to have a sub-optimal group and that happens easily in 10man.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:27:57 EDT

bTU posted :

said by JB:

said by Nick D:

So maybe they're going back to 25-man-or-bust for legendaries?

Sure hope so.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 14:55:44 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by JB:

said by Nick D:

So maybe they're going back to 25-man-or-bust for legendaries?

Sure hope so.

I have mixed feelings

1. the guild I'm in right now just doesn't have hte people on for 25-mans

2. I just changed guilds so I guess if I need to change again then so be it, though next time I think it'll have to be xfering

btw any word on the effect of xfering on the staff quest?

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 14:53:24 EDT

JB posted :

said by Nick D:

So maybe they're going back to 25-man-or-bust for legendaries?

Sure hope so.
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 14:49:50 EDT

DarkLogix posted : Well I'm really hoping the current guild levels fast and gets into MoP fast.

I really want a shot at doing heroic stuff pre-nerf and such.

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 14:38:51 EDT

Nick D posted : Nooooo idea, but I'd wager they just do it as a quest chain: have to complete the gem quest to continue on.

I'd anticipate you end up gemming the weapon you think will be BiS given your progression. If you're killing heroic Terrace, you wait til then. If you think the best you get before t15 is normal mode, then that. If you're an LFR ranger, then you slot in that sucker.

But then again, LFR rangers probably won't get the legendary thing (even if its enabled for testing). The fancy part is that while one piece does drop in LFR right now, the other piece only drops off 25 man Heart of Fear (last boss). So maybe they're going back to 25-man-or-bust for legendaries?

Ahhh beta

Re: [Poll] First to MoP

Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:20:48 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by Nick D:

That appears to be the case.

However, there's a theory that the legendary questline is throughout the entire expansion. e.g. you get a gem for 5.0, and the 5.1 raids continue it along and you get something else (or keep building towards a proper legendary in 5.2).

That's all speculation though.

But if that's the case then will it be possible to UN-socket the special gem?

Or some quest to exchange the weapon to get the gem back?