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IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

This is old news

They have been selling wireless home phone at the AT&T store at Holyoke Mall (Holyoke MA) for about 5-6 months now.

I had the home phone connect from VZW and I broke the contract as I got an alarm system and wireless home phones will not work with alarm dialers.

I went with Verizon landline for a few months and it was costing me $65 per month so I went back to Comcast for home phone since the alarm company said it did not make a difference (just as long as it is wired properly) and since Comcast offered a sweet deal on a triple play.

Wireless home phones are another gimmick from the cell companies. They are basically a cell phone and they give a false sense of security because 911 calls will be treated like a cell call (no or limited location information) whereas a landline (either traditional or facilities based VoIP like Comcast or Time Warner) will give exact location.

I would not trust my family's safety on a cheesy VoIP or landline replacement service like Vonage or Magic Jack. Either traditional phone service or a facilities based VoIP service fits the bill because they have Quality of Service standards and have battery backup.

They should have a warning on any VoIP or home phone replacement plan that it should not be relied on for emergency communications.

What really bothers me is that my neighbor has kids, has an inflatable swimming pool, and no home phone (cell only household). Imagine if one of the kids drowned (hope it does not happen) and they found their cell battery was dead or try telling a 911 dispatcher where they are located. 911 calls in this area are answered by the state police and transferred to the local jurisdiction. 911 calls from a wireline phone are answered by the responding jurisdiction.
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
alarms still dial out?


WiFiguru
To infinity... and beyond
Premium
join:2005-06-21
Irvine, CA
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
reply to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

Wireless home phones are another gimmick from the cell companies. They are basically a cell phone and they give a false sense of security because 911 calls will be treated like a cell call (no or limited location information) whereas a landline (either traditional or facilities based VoIP like Comcast or Time Warner) will give exact location.

Actually the devices have built in GPS to support 911 on exact location of the device... just like cell phones. If you made a 911 call in your house with a cell phone, they would know exactly which part of your house you are in because of GPS.


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
If the GPS actually worked, then the 911 calls from my cell phone or any other cellular device would go to the Springfield (MA) 911 call center as opposed to the Massachusetts State Police Barracks in Northampton and have to be transferred to Springfield. I have called for emergency response on my cell phone quite a few times. I have the direct dial number to the Springfield Police dispatch (as well as the Police direct dial numbers for jurisdictions I frequently visit) as I can get through quicker than dialing 911 as I can bypass the Northampton State Police barracks.

Dial 911 from a landline, they have the exact location of the emergency and the call is automatically routed to the responding jurisdiction.

If you ever have an emergency at a public place (such as a mall or bus terminal) and there is a payphone nearby, then call 911 on the payphone because 911 dispatchers will get the exact location of the payphone and calling 911 on a payphone does NOT require a coin deposit because 911 is a free call under federal law. I only suggest this if there is a payphone plainly visible near the site of the emergency, don't waste time trying to find a phone booth if you have a cell phone and the payphone may or may not be working.
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to 25139889
Alarms do dial out unless you want to pay 3x as much for the hardware and 2x as much for the monitoring. My alarm company quoted me $545 to install a radio box (monitoring fees would still be the same as the alarm company uses it's own mesh network) but I decided just to go the Comcast Digital Voice route as they offered my a triple play bundle for about $25 more than my double play (internet and phone) vs $140 for the double play and another $65 per month for home phone with Verizon.
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
ADT quoted us only a few dollars more per month for wireless monitoring. I don't remember what the equipment charge was though.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.


JimThePCGuy
Formerly known as schja01.
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-27
Morton Grove, IL
reply to WiFiguru
said by WiFiguru:

said by IowaCowboy:

Wireless home phones are another gimmick from the cell companies. They are basically a cell phone and they give a false sense of security because 911 calls will be treated like a cell call (no or limited location information) whereas a landline (either traditional or facilities based VoIP like Comcast or Time Warner) will give exact location.

Actually the devices have built in GPS to support 911 on exact location of the device... just like cell phones. If you made a 911 call in your house with a cell phone, they would know exactly which part of your house you are in because of GPS.

No. Not even close.


digiblur
Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana
reply to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

They have been selling wireless home phone at the AT&T store at Holyoke Mall (Holyoke MA) for about 5-6 months now.

I had the home phone connect from VZW and I broke the contract as I got an alarm system and wireless home phones will not work with alarm dialers.

I went with Verizon landline for a few months and it was costing me $65 per month so I went back to Comcast for home phone since the alarm company said it did not make a difference (just as long as it is wired properly) and since Comcast offered a sweet deal on a triple play.

Wireless home phones are another gimmick from the cell companies. They are basically a cell phone and they give a false sense of security because 911 calls will be treated like a cell call (no or limited location information) whereas a landline (either traditional or facilities based VoIP like Comcast or Time Warner) will give exact location.

I would not trust my family's safety on a cheesy VoIP or landline replacement service like Vonage or Magic Jack. Either traditional phone service or a facilities based VoIP service fits the bill because they have Quality of Service standards and have battery backup.

They should have a warning on any VoIP or home phone replacement plan that it should not be relied on for emergency communications.

What really bothers me is that my neighbor has kids, has an inflatable swimming pool, and no home phone (cell only household). Imagine if one of the kids drowned (hope it does not happen) and they found their cell battery was dead or try telling a 911 dispatcher where they are located. 911 calls in this area are answered by the state police and transferred to the local jurisdiction. 911 calls from a wireline phone are answered by the responding jurisdiction.

No way would I trust my alarm system on a wired phone line. Cell system is the only way to go for real security needs. Too easy for the crook to cut the line. The alarm may go off but no one gets called. It wasn't really more expensive per month, and was only an up front cost of like $200 or so. I've saved way more than that by not having a telephone line.

You must not keep up to date on E911 services as it sends the GPS coordinates of the phone. VoIP sends the address assigned to the account. And actually the cell E911 is more accurate as if someone had a large property the emergency response would know the farmer was out in the back barn instead of in the front house 300 yards away.
--

SouthWest Louisiana PC Users Group »www.swlapcug.com

chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA
Springfield Massachusetts is technological desert. It would not surprise me they don't have e911 on cell phone there. In Chicagoland they have not only e911 in some locations but also some townships, like bloomingdale in Dupage, have a website where u can register any of your phone number and you provide there all details, address, relatives, medical information, directions etc. Once you call from your registered number they have everything in place.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
reply to IowaCowboy
The reason they don't go to the best place has less to do with the mobile phone providing location information and more to do with the 911 services in your area.


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage

1 edit
reply to JimThePCGuy
said by JimThePCGuy:

said by WiFiguru:

said by IowaCowboy:

Wireless home phones are another gimmick from the cell companies. They are basically a cell phone and they give a false sense of security because 911 calls will be treated like a cell call (no or limited location information) whereas a landline (either traditional or facilities based VoIP like Comcast or Time Warner) will give exact location.

Actually the devices have built in GPS to support 911 on exact location of the device... just like cell phones. If you made a 911 call in your house with a cell phone, they would know exactly which part of your house you are in because of GPS.

No. Not even close.

Yep, my experience with the GPS in my two cell phones is that it does not even work inside my apartment (or most structures). Any time I have tried using a GPS dependent service from inside almost any building, the phone just hangs busy for several minutes and then informs me that GPS is "temporarily" unavailable.

Actually, in my apartment the only reason I can even use my AT&T cell phones at all is because I have a zBoost repeater with an outside antenna on a tall mast located on my patio (but that unfortunately does not boost the GPS since that is a totally different service). That lack of GPS is also the reason that I use a repeater instead of AT&T's 3G MicroCell device; the 3G MicroCell requires GPS in order to operate.

Also, FWIW, my GE DECT CellFusion phone system that I have been using for several years connects via bluetooth to both of my cell phones and allows the DECT handsets to use both of the cellphones as well as a POTS or VoIP connection (and they have a module that also allows connecting any RJ-11 device to the cell phones via bluetooth), so as usual AT&T is a day late and a dollar short with "new" technology. Rethink Possible indeed.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
reply to IowaCowboy
$199 install by ADT, and $45-49.99 per month depending on your area. All wireless and SIM based. can be reprogrammed by othe companies.

Vivint is a little more to install but they turn your home into a smart house.

So your more expensive really isn't when you factor in the basic package for monitoring is $20+ per month then your landline fee just for that of another $20+ with taxes depending on your area.

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
reply to WiFiguru
actually with a cell phone it depends on the area. many areas still only have Caller ID for cell phones. no location yet. They can maybe get the general tower area but that's it. But this device is suppose to be able to give an actual address- the same as digital phone from the cable company and even Vonage.

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
reply to IowaCowboy
malls have payphones? better yet- where is a payphone anymore besides your local 7-11 where 95% of the people that use it are sell/dealing drugs. Payphones are a thing of the past and more and more places do not have them.

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
reply to chgo_man99
E-911 depends on the state. Ohio and Michigan both have e-911 but it is only phone number. e911 was 2 phases location is hit and miss and was never required as they can obtain your phone number.


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to 25139889
Around here in Western Mass; Holyoke Mall has payphones and Eastfield Mall last time I checked had a payphone. Enfield Square in Enfield, CT took theirs out. Maine Mall in South Portland, ME still has payphones. The Walmarts have payphones in the back of the stores as well. The facilities that have payphones have greatly reduced their numbers (such as Holyoke Mall had them in pods of four that now house one payphone per pod) and they are rarely used. My mother used one to call me at the mall once when she picked up what she thought was her cell phone and it happened to be an old one that happened to be deactivated. They also happen to have Payphones at resort areas such as the beach at Old Orchard Beach, Maine as they get a lot of tourists that don't want to pay international roaming on their cell phones to make a local call (where a payphone costs 50¢ for a local call where international roaming on a cell phone can equate to $2.49 per minute in US dollars which is why hotels have not taken out room phones).

There is still a residual market for payphones such as people who forget their cell phones or have a dead battery. I used a payphone once when I broke my cell phone and a collect call in 2002 cost my mother $15 on the home phone bill for a five minute call.
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
reply to 25139889
said by 25139889:

E-911 depends on the state. Ohio and Michigan both have e-911 but it is only phone number. e911 was 2 phases location is hit and miss and was never required as they can obtain your phone number.

And with the AT&T device being discussed in this thread, it probably won't make any difference if you live in an area that fully supports all of the E-911 features (including GPS for mobile phones) unless the device is connecting through an AT&T 3G Microcell.

I could not find anything in the on-line documentation supplied by AT&T that even implied that this device supports GPS. However in several places there is a 911 warning disclaimer:

said by AT&T :

You should expect to provide your home address to the emergency response center responsible for sending first responders (e.g., police, medical assistance, or fire) to your location.

I think that the only way this device would fully support E-911 would be in conjunction with a 3G Microcell because the 3G Microcell does use GPS (and if my memory serves me, it also uses a manually entered street address that is expected to match the GPS reading).
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to IowaCowboy
'If your State is answering your 911 calls from a cell phone you really need to lobby them to get up to date.. Around here all calls are handled on a county basis with dispatchers able to tell exactly where you are if needed. That ability really trumps all. Imagine how often that gets used in accidents and such. They dont use the tracker unless they have to. But i cant really imagine any state being so far behind as answering cell phones at a state level. i really doubt you are correct on that tho to be honest. I was involved in a accident in the woods in the middle of a State park and they were able to find me. So anyone that thinks they dont have the ability to do that is wrong. If they can find me in the middle of a 2000 acre park they can find anyone if they want. And it was only because i had a cell phone.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
reply to NetFixer
911 doesnt use the gps built into your phone. If you have a signal they can find you.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
reply to 25139889
Found me in the middle of hickory state park and i dont have gps built in. The only thing i was told is leave my cell phone on and up the pipe line a ambulance came.


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
reply to rody_44
said by rody_44:

911 doesnt use the gps built into your phone. If you have a signal they can find you.

That depends on the carrier and the capabilities of the E-911 call center: What is a GPS-capable phone, and why is it so important for E911?

If you are in a high population density area with multiple cell towers communicating with your phone, then perhaps the E-911 call center can locate you using cell tower triangulation. If not, then they may only be able to make a guess as to which county you are calling from based on the location of the single cell tower to which you are connected. Not all of us live and always remain inside heavily populated urban areas.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to 25139889
There are a bunch of pay phones in our mall at three different locations. Plus, there is one outside the mall building on the front of CVS. There are a bunch at the main grocery store and more in the next small mall. There are two at the entrance to Wal-Mart across the street. Where there is a noticeable lack is in the new shopping center that has a new Safeway and Target. They get less of my business for this reason even though they are nice stores. I rarely need to use a pay phone (why would I need to use a phone, except in an emergency, when I am away from home) but I want them available if I did need one.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson