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49528867 (banned)
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

1 recommendation

49528867 (banned) to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA

Re: Surge Protection Residential Whole House

said by Jack_in_VA:

Depending on the soil multiple ground rods can create potential differences between them causing problems.

That is incorrect when buried ground ring is in place...

As the article states telco, catv etc should be tied together and brought to a single point ground with the building ground.

Incorrect each service should be brought into the structure via its own entrance and then the ground for the protection systems for each service should be bonded to the main grounding bar (MGB).

Note they do not have multiple ground rods in their article.

Based upon that, I would say they obviously have zero experience with grounding and bonding communications sites and communications equipment…

For example a basic six foot by twelve foot pad for a remote terminal will have a minimum of four ground rods connected to its buried ground ring and there will be five ground rods if the power pedestal is not installed upon the pad.

Second example would be a cell hut which like an RT pad will have a minimum of four and commonly 6 ground rods connected to its buried ground ring. Then there will be a second but bonded to the first ground ring for the antenna which may have as few as four to as many as a dozen ground rods.

By the way I doubt you will find a single cell site down here in the lightning capitol of the U.S. where the power communications and antenna cable enter through the same header.

Wayne

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by 49528867:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Depending on the soil multiple ground rods can create potential differences between them causing problems.

That is incorrect when buried ground ring is in place...

As the article states telco, catv etc should be tied together and brought to a single point ground with the building ground.

Incorrect each service should be brought into the structure via its own entrance and then the ground for the protection systems for each service should be bonded to the main grounding bar (MGB).

Note they do not have multiple ground rods in their article.

Based upon that, I would say they obviously have zero experience with grounding and bonding communications sites and communications equipment…

For example a basic six foot by twelve foot pad for a remote terminal will have a minimum of four ground rods connected to its buried ground ring and there will be five ground rods if the power pedestal is not installed upon the pad.

Second example would be a cell hut which like an RT pad will have a minimum of four and commonly 6 ground rods connected to its buried ground ring. Then there will be a second but bonded to the first ground ring for the antenna which may have as few as four to as many as a dozen ground rods.

By the way I doubt you will find a single cell site down here in the lightning capitol of the U.S. where the power communications and antenna cable enter through the same header.

Wayne

Wayne I think I'll just stick with the recommendations of people knowledgeable and educated in the field of grounding. I don't think you really believe you can claim the article was incorrect.

I have all my equipment grounded exactly the way they illustrate and I knew that long ago from my many courses and seminars on grounding and bonding.
49528867 (banned)
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

1 edit

49528867 (banned)

Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

Wayne I think I'll just stick with the recommendations of people knowledgeable and educated in the field of grounding.

Guess what you have been communicating with one of those.

»Grounding and Bonding. More than you will ever want to know.

»ebiznet.sbc.com/sbcnebs/ ··· -001.pdf

Notice practice 5.1.

I don't think you really believe you can claim the article was incorrect.

I will admit I was incorrect in that statement but please remember it was based on your incorrect interpretation/misreading of the article and your mixing of personal opinions into the subject.

To be specific;

Your comment “depending on the soil multiple ground rods can create potential differences between them causing problems.”

Once bonded together that is false.

Again your comment;

“as the article states telco, catv etc should be tied together and brought to a single point ground with the building ground. Note they do not have multiple ground rods in their article.”

If you carefully study the diagrams in the article you will notice there are no grounds depicted, as such I would say your point is irrelevant.

I have all my equipment grounded exactly the way they illustrate and I knew that long ago from my many courses and seminars on grounding and bonding.

Good luck there guy.

Wayne

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

3 edits

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by 49528867:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Wayne I think I'll just stick with the recommendations of people knowledgeable and educated in the field of grounding.

Guess what you have been communicating with one of those.

Really? IMO I hardly think that someone who specializes in communications is fully qualified across the spectrum of industrial and residential grounding. That would be a truly a unique individual. That especially is true when your statements conflict with what some of us know and see practiced in the field and required in many areas.
quote:
I don't think you really believe you can claim the article was incorrect.

I will admit I was incorrect in that statement but please remember it was based on your incorrect interpretation/misreading of the article and your mixing of personal opinions into the subject.

To be specific;

Your comment “depending on the soil multiple ground rods can create potential differences between them causing problems.”

Once bonded together that is false.

If the bonding conductor reduces the potential difference to essentially "0", Then that would negate your belief that a ground rod would be needed.

Again your comment;

“as the article states telco, catv etc should be tied together and brought to a single point ground with the building ground. Note they do not have multiple ground rods in their article.”

If you carefully study the diagrams in the article you will notice there are no grounds depicted, as such I would say your point is irrelevant.

I have all my equipment grounded exactly the way they illustrate and I knew that long ago from my many courses and seminars on grounding and bonding.

Good luck there guy.

Don't need luck Wayne. I'm covered.

Wayne

SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium Member
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

SmokChsr to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Wayne I think I'll just stick with the recommendations of people knowledgeable and educated in the field of grounding. I don't think you really believe you can claim the article was incorrect.

I didn't read the article, but I did read Wayne's reply, and it looked dead on target to me. If we have anything wrong in our lightning protection systems in this area, you'll tend to find out about it rather quickly. It's not uncommon for anyone of my sites to take 3-5 direct strikes a week during the summer.

I did have one of my site's blasted by lightning last summer. I thought that was a bit odd, so I started looking and quickly saw that apparently my old tower grounding straps must have been out of date, and some nice person had come by and spent great effort on their part to assist me by removing all that old bad copper. Unfortunately they seemed to have forgotten to come back and put in new copper to replace it. Still I guess I should be grateful that they cared enough to do half the job for me.
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned) to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Really? IMO I hardly think that someone who specializes in communications is fully qualified across the spectrum of industrial and residential grounding. That would be a truly a unique individual. That especially is true when your statements conflict with what some of us know and see practiced in the field and required in many areas.

What was the old bell system five nines up time. Grounding did have tons to do with that. You have circuits all the way from a CO out many, many miles into the field. Without proper grounding besides up time the noise would be canceling any signal.
Bell Labs did know grounding.
49528867 (banned)
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

49528867 (banned) to SmokChsr

Member

to SmokChsr
said by SmokChsr:

I did have one of my site's blasted by lightning last summer. I thought that was a bit odd, so I started looking and quickly saw that apparently my old tower grounding straps must have been out of date, and some nice person had come by and spent great effort on their part to assist me by removing all that old bad copper.

Here's a tip (from a guy who knows grounding) to prevent that from happening in the future.

»www.rwonline.com/article ··· on/24805

Wayne
49528867

1 recommendation

49528867 (banned) to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

Really? IMO I hardly think that someone who specializes in communications is fully qualified across the spectrum of industrial and residential grounding.

Hate to tell ya this but if one is qualified to design a grounding system for a communications site then one is over qualified to design a residential grounding system.

That especially is true when your statements conflict with what some of us know and see practiced in the field and required in many areas.

Statements which have already been proven to be incorrect and not in compliance with both the NEC and published G&B standards.

If the bonding conductor reduces the potential difference to essentially "0", Then that would negate your belief that a ground rod would be needed.

Quite incorrect as bonding is not grounding and sadly you seem to fail to understand the difference between the two.

I have all my equipment grounded exactly the way they illustrate and I knew that long ago from my many courses and seminars on grounding and bonding.

Is that statement based on figure one which has multiple grounds bonded together which is the way I do things, which in turn you state is incorrect.
said by Jack_in_VA:

“Depending on the soil multiple ground rods can create potential differences between them causing problems.”

Gee Jack you seem to want it both ways.

I don't think you really believe you can claim the article was incorrect.

Really, then please explain why when illustrating the preferred method in figure two the designer violated the PANI rule, which in my opinion further brings into question the grounding and bonding skills of the author.

Don't need luck Wayne. I'm covered.

Just like the head of an Ostrich.

Wayne

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA to nonymous

Premium Member

to nonymous
said by nonymous:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Really? IMO I hardly think that someone who specializes in communications is fully qualified across the spectrum of industrial and residential grounding. That would be a truly a unique individual. That especially is true when your statements conflict with what some of us know and see practiced in the field and required in many areas.

What was the old bell system five nines up time. Grounding did have tons to do with that. You have circuits all the way from a CO out many, many miles into the field. Without proper grounding besides up time the noise would be canceling any signal.
Bell Labs did know grounding.

You should come here for an example of the perfect noise cancelling grounding. Mine was so bad and the Verizon techs unable to correct it I just gave up and went with Verizon Wireless Home Connect. Works fine and $30/mo cheaper.

Yes the old Bell System was fine when they had excellent trained knowledgeable employees. Now for the most part they have a bunch of high paid, union protected don't care workers. I had an uncle that worked for Bell Atlantic all his life and he would roll over in his grave if he saw the quality of workers now.

Kind of funny though lightning struck one of our power plant stacks one night. The only thing effected in the whole plant including generators was the phone system plant-wide. It blew up most of the glass tube spark gap enclosures the telco had on their incoming circuits. They spent a lot of time repairing/replacing them and getting our phone system back up.
49528867 (banned)
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

49528867 (banned)

Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

It blew up most of the glass tube spark gap enclosures the telco had on their incoming circuits. They spent a lot of time repairing/replacing them and getting our phone system back up.

That’s old school, protectors used nowadays are hybrids providing gas tubes for the primary protection, backed by MOV for through thru protection and solid state protection facing the CPE.

Wayne

SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium Member
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL

SmokChsr to 49528867

Premium Member

to 49528867
Eeeks!!! that's in Radio World!! Why would anyone want to write for a rag like that? theBDR.net is where all the good writers hangout