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JenSuisUn
Premium Member
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON

JenSuisUn to nashutzu

Premium Member

to nashutzu

Re: Terrible Terrible TekSavvy / Bell Story

Hi Gheorghe,

We found your account & we are currently investigating. We'll get back to you shortly.

Regards,
Martin

Comment
@teksavvy.com

Comment

Anon

said by JenSuisUn:

I'm surprised on how agents may have dealt with you as it's definitely not how we try to treat our customers.

Then you are new or very glib.

There was a time when a call to Teksavvy was answered by a real human being and one was connected to a person ready and capable to assist.

But it appears the bean-counters have won. Now it is voice-automation hell, with no ability to exit to a real person, with a half-hour wait being perpetually told that one's call is important (the irony of that seems totally lost) and when the call is finally answered, one is told every time that there has been an extremely unusual call load at that moment only.

And it is far less expensive to pay a script-monkey than provide sufficient competent staff.

I called again today in regard to an outstanding problem now outstanding more than a month. After the half-hour wait I contacted someone who, once he had asked for my phone number, put me on hold "for a moment". Five minutes later, the call was disconnected. Oh well, he has my number and will quickly call me back.

Right.......

Rocky, we cheered you on in your competition with Bell. Little did we know the goal was to become the same as them.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

Gang,

I'm sorry to hear about these problems, if you can PM Martin, he can look into it. I think what Martin meant to say is that he's sorry that our team didn't escalate it to him instead of it getting to this point. I.e. not that the customer should have reached out to Martin directly.

Regardless, the notion that we don't care has been talked about for ages at this point and it's just not true. Each time these issues start cropping up its because of some sort of other problem. In this case we have recently installed a new phone system and there has been a bug where queues get priority changes and somehow those in queue prior to the change end up getting last priority after the auto priority switch. It was escalated to the manufacturer and we believe it may be fixed but it's being worked out.

The net result is that many customers ended up getting less them awesome support and so more calls get created.. Its also busier this time of year so everything combined we have everybody on the phones including managers.

We've also recently hired 20 additional staff and 20 more are in training. Hiring 100% fully technical staff is just not possible, you have to train them. So what it means is that it's all about getting the problem into the right hands as everybody is not made the same.

For these specific cases, we will investigate and see exactly what happened and deal with individuals accordingly if necessary.

That's what these forums are useful for, to help find the outliers.. So we can close the loop.

At the end of the day, we're working out the kinks and hopefully things will be back on track soon, for those who have been affected, I'm truly sorry and let's see what can be done to try to make things right from here.

Comment
@teksavvy.com

Comment

Anon

"Regardless, the notion that we don't care has been talked about for ages at this point and it's just not true. Each time these issues start cropping up its because of some sort of other problem.

And that IS the heart of the matter. It's not each time, it's EVERY time. Again and again it's a sob story about the pains of growth and that it is a "one-time" occurrence.

It has worn thin.

All the "good intentions" (real or feigned) matter not; it is the reality that the end user experiences that counts. For the most part, when things go right, that experience is great (well, actually, non-existent).

But when things go wrong, there is far too much the likelihood that a call to Teksavvy will simply make things even more unpleasant.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

said by Comment :

"Regardless, the notion that we don't care has been talked about for ages at this point and it's just not true. Each time these issues start cropping up its because of some sort of other problem.

And that IS the heart of the matter. It's not each time, it's EVERY time. Again and again it's a sob story about the pains of growth and that it is a "one-time" occurrence.

It has worn thin.

All the "good intentions" (real or feigned) matter not; it is the reality that the end user experiences that counts. For the most part, when things go right, that experience is great (well, actually, non-existent).

But when things go wrong, there is far too much the likelihood that a call to Teksavvy will simply make things even more unpleasant.

That's just plain not true. We handle thousands of calls each and every day. Overwhelmingly we have very positive feedback, even the reviews on here show that. You can read on twitter, Facebook, our own forums...

I do think that there are many more things we can do to make sure each and every call is handled as best as possible, to deliver the best customer experience. We're very focused on that and discuss it every day internally.

On a percentage basis, we are clearly more thorough now than we have ever been, the difference is we have way more volume. It's not growing pains any more at this point it's the normal reality that what we are attempting to do at this scale is very difficult to achieve. The very same ppl who were praised for being so great in the past, they still work for us the majority of them. We are the same people.. The same ownership. I was there every minute of the last ten years...

I do think that we can do a better job of getting our more technical techs involved sooner in the process and we've been discussing that internally for some time now. This case highlights that (not withstanding bad apples, but we're looking into that still.. ) but again, it's not a clear cut argument given the additional internal stresses at the time. For those who have worked in a call centric environment.. Changing phone systems is a major undertaking. Just the integration with our 911 requirements for our TekTalk service required a complete rebuild.. You don't have to listen to that god awful long disclaimer anymore.. But everybody had to learn the new process.. All sorts of little things. Training/manuals needed to be updated...

Of course the benefit of the improved audio quality has been huge.. And our ability to hook into the process software wise is infinitely improved. That will lead to future improvements. So there's a very strong commitment to improving the customer experience on all levels all the time. In truth we are working our butts off at a frenzied pace to really wow you guys. There was a massive backlog of internal systems that needed to be improved so it may seem like we've been pretty quiet but don't mistake that for sitting on our thumbs. Months ago I was basically told, put up or shut up... So I got to work and much change is afoot but it also means a few bumps along the way. It's back to basics time.

For those who need additional help, please start a thread in the direct forum or pm Martin and if you still don't get where you need, feel free to pm me as well. I'm not hiding, but I'm also not the best person to solve most of your problems.. I do want the best service possible for everybody though.

Comment
@teksavvy.com

Comment

Anon

"I'm not hiding, but I'm also not the best person to solve most of your problems.."

If not you, then who? But first you need to recognize that you HAVE a problem. It's not the individual 'trees' you keep throwing up - it's the FOREST that they constitute. Forget the 'statistics' (lies, damn lies and then there are statistics) and ask yourself one simple question - are more people having problems with Teksavvy today compared with previous years? When did it become OK for customers to be queued for more than a minute? When did it become OK for customers to be required to repeat themselves and steps because they got a different Tech and there is no 'audit trail'?

Yes, your growth allows you to delude yourself that 'problems' are decreasing on a percentage basis, but they're obviously increasing in the aggregate and I suspect may be reaching a 'critical mass'.

Current example - I had sent a note to sales complaining about the service level and my problem of over a month. Yes, I got a call yesterday, but it was only to be assured that a senior Tech would be in contact. Today, I got the call.

As soon as I had stated that my problem was the fact that the building intercom was of the NSL (No Subscriber Line) type and that arrangements needed to be made to attach a DSL bridge/bypass around the intercom, the Tech informed me that this was not Teksavvy's problem, but mine (or my building's owner) as the intercom was past the demarcation point. I responded that my understanding was that the demarc for an apartment building was the "first" jack in each apartment and he assured me that this was not the case. I then said that everything I had been told must be wrong, and thanked him for his time.

Here's the quote FROM BELL'S OWN WEB PAGES!

»support.bell.ca/Home_pho ··· f?step=3

"In a multi-unit or multi-storey building (such as an apartment building), the demarcation point is at the main jack (the first point of entry) inside each unit. The main jack will be labelled Demarcation or Verification."

What is even sadder is that for many readers, this is common knowledge....
OttawaMark
join:2012-08-12

OttawaMark

Member

I made an account here to make this post. I am currently surveying these forums to look at customer satisfaction with TekSavvy before committing to them.

The kind of problems mentioned in the original post are all too reminiscent of things I've experienced with Rogers and Bell, and it's a *big deal* that there are customer support headaches, whatever the explanation for them. It's not just about issue resolution, either. If a customer spends 8 hours on the phone resolving their problem, that is a huge and non-recoverable loss in time (and possibly income).

It's great that there are Teksavvy representatives here answering questions -- very, very positive. But I think it would be a mistake to dismiss the frustrations being expressed here as being an 'outlier' unless internal audits are conducted regularly that support that conclusion. The explanation offered by the Teksavvy staff, involving phone line problems and other technical issues, in fact suggests that it's a much bigger problem than the term 'outlier' would suggest.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc to Comment

Premium Member

to Comment
Guys, we went from 15 minute wait times three weeks ago, which was already too high (we have new hires on the way and recently started) to having more than an hour wait times at the same time the phone system went in. I'm not trying to blow hot air here.. It's like a hockey stick over night...

This in turn has caused all sorts of other problems...

Nobody is saying every case is not important, we're still investigating the ones identified.

The total mass of problems is not higher except for the last 2-3 weeks.

There appears to be recurring problems for local outages where various incumbents are messing with the network, not much we can do there. And there appear to be recurring issues with regards to missed appointments. This had reached a critical point a few months ago and some of those issues were related to our internal processes but we have since addressed those and whatever is happening now appears to mostly be incumbent related.

I'm not saying we're perfect. Not saying we don't make mistakes, I'm saying in fact that we will almost certainly make mistakes and it's a matter of how do we handle those situation. Obviously getting the problem into the right hands before it gets too big of a problem is a huge part of dealing with these things and clearly we dropped the ball here. I think there are circumstantial reasons but it doesn't change that you the customer should not be made to pay for those issues, I understand that and if this turns out to be the case we will surely react accordingly.

Not trying to be confrontational, I'm listening to all of you and im committed to doing everything possible to improve where is necessary. For my part I believe in telling it the way I see it and from my perspective there are a number of compounded issues that have culminated to these situations. Some work needs to be done on some fronts but where I really have to push back is the notion that we don't care or that this is all a wide spread and permanent set of problems. That's just not the case, we/I certainly care. I care about every aspect of it all. Second is that that this is largely, but not entirely, related to recent events. My promises is that we're on it and we're going to try to make it right for those affected as best as possible and going forward we will do everything possible to avoid these problems.

outlier
@videotron.ca

outlier to OttawaMark

Anon

to OttawaMark
OttawaMark,

The CRTC used to have mandatory reporting of issues. It was all nice pretty graphs of line failures etc. Bell then submitted to scrap these statistical mandatory filings. CRTC agreed and thus it no longer exists. I think you can still find this section on the CRTC website and see the year it ended.

After having my own issues with bell, and talking to a vp within bell, and mentioning their filed statistical reports with the CRTC and my on-going 2 months of on again off again phone service and a non-functioning 911 call. The Bell VP called me "a statistical outlier" (those words exactly) thus it was not included in their CRTC stat's report.

So yeah. I would take offense of the word "outlier" as mark mentions. Especially when they have nothing to back up those words. In fact, they have to use a forum where people can get very vocal after 8-hr hold times and no action to find a statistical outlier. Sound odd to you? Is that within the 95% statistical confidence limit?

Again, these are things and words that Teksavvy promised they would not state.

Sad to see how they chose not to adhere to their promise and now just toss out words and excuses like Bell does.

Marc, even that word hit a nerve with me. But I guess I'm just an outlier. Just like Bell called me.

If all the monthly outliers were presented to you in graph form, would we all still be outliers?

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt to TSI Marc

Premium Member

to TSI Marc
Marc, since you're here, can you give us your perspective on the cablemodem firmware issue? (sorry to hijack this thread, but it has to do with customer service).

There have been some users that have moved their service from one location to the other, and the service either doesn't work or the modem reboots (due to firmware bugs), particularly with the DCM 475. They are being told that the firmware is the issue, but that they cannot upgrade the firmware because Rogers is the only one that can, and they refuse to do so.

Tech Support agents are telling people whose modems are over 1 year old that they're out of luck and they need to buy a new modem.

This isn't right, and there's nothing wrong with the modem aside from a firmware upgrade, which the customer or TSI cannot upgrade.

I myself haven't been affected, because I have a Motorola SB6120 with a fairly recent 1.0.6.1 firmware that Rogers pushed the upgrades to last year, but there have been some users with SB6120/21's that have older firmware and they've either lost service or having some issues, all of which could be fixed with a firmware upgrade, but can't.

There will come a time where Rogers will make more changes to their network, and my modem will stop working or will have disconnect or reboot issues, and it will effectly be a brick because I wont be able to upgrade it. TSI sells thousands of modems to people, and if you can't get more than a year of use out of it (after the warranty) whats the point? You might as well start renting, becuase it'll be cheaper than having to replace the modem every couple years.

So my question to you is, because nobody from TSI has replied to this in any official capacity, has TSI made any effort to talk to Rogers to address this issue?

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

1 edit

TSI Marc

Premium Member

Right, Ive seen two issues like this first hand and we ended up replacing the modem both times. I'll double check with my team to see what we are now doing. Very frustrating situation on the modem front. Similar impossible situation with those damn Cellpipe modems.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

The thing is, Rogers can VERY easily push the firmware updates, which are available...

The issue with the Bell Cellpipe modem was that they had to work with the manufacturer to develop a fixed firmware, since Bell effectively stopped using those modems for their own subs... But in the new Bell Cellpipe modem firmware which fixed the issue, there is at least an option to load the firmware, if future issues arise.

Rogers locks out the modem management that nobody but them can manage. Thats the issue. And these are modems that your customers purchase outright, and then are told are basically boat anchors simply because of firmware, not because of hardware failure...

I think it's something you should look into, as Rogers keeps upgrading their network you will have more of these issues, and unhappy customers.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

Agreed, and it has been getting looked into but no straight up answers yet. I'll get back to you.

Glen1
These Are The Good Ol' Days.
MVM
join:2002-05-24
GTA Canada

1 edit

Glen1 to TSI Marc

MVM

to TSI Marc
The only good thing about "those damn Cellpipe modems" appears to be the fact that your customers are "renting" them and didn't have to purchase them outright...that would have been a "brick" situation for sure.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

I don't know. It's frustrating however you slice it from our vantage point. We eat a lot of crow for lots of things that are completely outside our ability to fix but that are only specific to wholesalers these days. Things that were never issues in the past. Things the incumbents have the ability to fix. The net result is a lowered value proposition to us.

I see your point but it all takes its toll.

Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium Member
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON

Teddy Boom to TSI Marc

Premium Member

to TSI Marc
said by TSI Marc:

Agreed, and it has been getting looked into but no straight up answers yet. I'll get back to you.

We really should be talking about this in one of the 50 DCM475 firmware threads, but....

Marc, how is it coming with getting me a loaner with STAC.02.16 firmware? If I can get a copy of the firmware file, I can upgrade people very easily, and this will be a great service to all Teksavvy customers around Toronto.
bbiab
join:2004-05-26

bbiab

Member

What firmware might we expect if we were to purchase a DCM475 currently from TSI?

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc to outlier

Premium Member

to outlier
gang, I wasn't trying to blow smoke... I didn't pull any statistics... my point was only to say that this was an exception, and not the rule.
eheyl
join:2008-03-23
Kitchener, ON

eheyl

Member

I've been with Teksavvy for over a year. In that time the only time I got frustrated was on account or Rogers not moving their collective ass and upgrade equipment in a timely fashion. I've not been treated poorly, or made to feel small. I'm always connected to someone who takes the time to listen to me and fix my issue. I've never once had reason to leave. And until such time as I go south of the border, I won't be. Teksavvy is miles ahead of Rogers in service and of course bandwidth caps (there ain't none!). Keep it up.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

I myself have had relatively little trouble in nearly 5 years as a customer... There have been issues like cable congestion, but my service was always working...

Then that Bell Cellpipe thing happened... Which we're still waiting for compensation from Bell...

I bet Bell said no compensation for those users who were affected, some for more than 7-8 months.

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc

Premium Member

Tx guys. Good to hear.
sgtux
join:2012-07-14

sgtux to TSI Marc

Member

to TSI Marc
Such terrible customer/tech service "hit" me number of times for the last ~6 months. I've been with TekSavvy for 5+ years and I'm still with you regardless of feeling full disrespect to me as a TekSavvy customer and just as a software engineer

Marc, could you please answer a couple of questions without blowing smoke?

1. Count please negative and positive TekSavvy reviews on www.canadianisp.ca site and tell us why you think that this thread with negative review is an exception? BTW a man from Mississauga on that site described one of the "exceptions" (Aug 13, 2012). This is exactly what is going on with TekSavvy customer service right now.

2. I've seen this question in this forum but haven't seen an answer yet. What is the point to have three phone numbers on the TekSavvy web site leading to the same answering machine? The situation was different a couple of years ago when each number represented a separate department as it is supposed to be and as it's shown on your site.

Thank you,
and don't take it personally as it's just an another opinion that might help you to get rid of such reviews, I hope.

Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium Member
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON

Tx

Premium Member

said by sgtux:

Such terrible customer/tech service "hit" me number of times for the last ~6 months. I've been with TekSavvy for 5+ years and I'm still with you regardless of feeling full disrespect to me as a TekSavvy customer and just as a software engineer

Marc, could you please answer a couple of questions without blowing smoke?

1. Count please negative and positive TekSavvy reviews on www.canadianisp.ca site and tell us why you think that this thread with negative review is an exception? BTW a man from Mississauga on that site described one of the "exceptions" (Aug 13, 2012). This is exactly what is going on with TekSavvy customer service right now.

2. I've seen this question in this forum but haven't seen an answer yet. What is the point to have three phone numbers on the TekSavvy web site leading to the same answering machine? The situation was different a couple of years ago when each number represented a separate department as it is supposed to be and as it's shown on your site.

Thank you,
and don't take it personally as it's just an another opinion that might help you to get rid of such reviews, I hope.

Wow i didn't know about canadianisp.ca... That's a lot of poor reviews. Either i signed up during a good time or something but talking to Marc off and on and my original signup i can't help but see them differently than most the reviews i read.

Never the less, the people have spoken. Sad to see though

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc to sgtux

Premium Member

to sgtux
Sure. I'll answer those questions.

#1 - working on it.

#2 - yeah. it's stupid. It needs to be fixed, maybe on the next revision of the web site *wink* *wink*. Back in the day it led to different queues but that was before the last phone system.

I'm not taking it personally at all. I appreciate everybody talking about it. Maybe some of our perceptions are off.. including mine. Lets find out.

MarcB, from Canadian ISP just send me an export of the reviews so I'll start looking at that. (We collocate and manage his server that hosts that web site)

Marc

TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium Member
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON

TwiztedZero

Premium Member

said by TSI Marc:

MarcB, from Canadian ISP just send me an export of the reviews so I'll start looking at that. (We collocate and manage his server that hosts that web site)

... O' got 'em by the short & curlies *wince* lol

Comment
@teksavvy.com

Comment to TSI Marc

Anon

to TSI Marc
Maybe some of our perceptions are off.. including mine.

And maybe there is some willful 'blindness' (subconscious or otherwise). On the weekend I posted that a Teksavvy rep had not only stated a falsehood (in regard to the location of Bell's demarcation point in multi-unit building), but had maintained it in spite of being offered the correct answer.

I thought it best to allow a full working day for there to be a response.

The silence has been deafening. It is as though the problem simply doesn't exist. (Not just my problem, but the 'problem' that Teksavvy is spouting nonsense to avoid the responsibility to address my problem.)

So, what is my next step? It has been easy to get people to "talk the talk", but so far, it appears no one wants to "walk the walk"....

TSI Marc
Premium Member
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON

TSI Marc to TwiztedZero

Premium Member

to TwiztedZero
Click for full size
excel sheet
Here is what I have.

fair reasons? did I miss anything?

lets agree on this and then we can discuss.
TSI Marc

TSI Marc

Premium Member

sorry, that was meant as a reply to sgtux

concerned1
@bell.ca

concerned1 to TSI Marc

Anon

to TSI Marc
TSIMarc you should also read your own forum. There are stories of the cable Modem issue with firmwares also.

»forums.teksavvy.com/yaf_ ··· tes.aspx
»forums.teksavvy.com/yaf_ ··· -31.aspx

JenSuisUn
Premium Member
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON

JenSuisUn

Premium Member

said by concerned1 :

TSIMarc you should also read your own forum. There are stories of the cable Modem issue with firmwares also.

»forums.teksavvy.com/yaf_ ··· tes.aspx
»forums.teksavvy.com/yaf_ ··· -31.aspx

Those have already been taken care of.