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glparker4

join:2002-11-02
Richmond, BC

[BC] Request for RDAC or SAC box in my condo building

I am experiencing numerous signal and line dropouts which severely impacts my TV & Internet service. Telus technicians have tried to optimize my profile which seems to be nothing more than a temporary fix as the problems reoccur.

The previous technician that visited my home indicated that a SAC box or RDAC needs to be installed in the building to resolve these issues and that I would need to request a SAC install through customer care. However, nobody in customer care knows how to request a SAC installation.

Does anyone know of which department of Telus would handle this request? Thanks in advance!


nss_tech

join:2007-07-29
Edmonton AB
I have no idea who you were talking to but you got some very bad information. A SAC or RDAC is a very large box that feeds a rather large area and a large number of customers. They are no simple task to install and they almost certainly won't install it in your already completed condo building. Installing one of those boxes costs a sizable fortune and even if somehow someone came up with the mountain of money needed, it likely still wouldn't happen. There is no phone number you can call to request something of this magnitude and customer service most certainly won't have any ability to handle that kind of request nor would they have anywhere to forward it to.

pb2k

join:2005-05-30
Calgary, AB
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TELUS
said by nss_tech:

I have no idea who you were talking to but you got some very bad information. A SAC or RDAC is a very large box that feeds a rather large area and a large number of customers. They are no simple task to install and they almost certainly won't install it in your already completed condo building. Installing one of those boxes costs a sizable fortune and even if somehow someone came up with the mountain of money needed, it likely still wouldn't happen. There is no phone number you can call to request something of this magnitude and customer service most certainly won't have any ability to handle that kind of request nor would they have anywhere to forward it to.

Customer service has nothing to do with placing dslams (SACs are outdoor crossconnects, that generally have dslams attached).

It's a huge convoluted process that starts with the marketing department identifying a market that could be served, gets tossed over to engineering and then the broadband gods be willing is built.

There has been a 48 Port huwaui dslam out for a while, that is capable of serving smaller MDUs, but I've been out of the loop for a while, so I don't know if they've received widespread deployment.


nss_tech

join:2007-07-29
Edmonton AB
Last I heard the Huawei boxes had not been widely deployed yet. I have seen a customer on one of them pulling 25mbps on ADSL2 on a Dlink DVA3810 modem.

glparker4

join:2002-11-02
Richmond, BC
Sorry if my request sounded a bit unusual. Our condo complex consists of two buildings across the street from each other. Building A has always qualified for 25 Mbps DSL and 3HD/1SD Optik TV while Building B only qualifies for 12 Mbps and 1HD/2SD Optik profile.

The technician explained to me that our service is fed directly from the CO but a SAC should have been installed during the construction phase (like Building B). He indicated that it was Telus that overlooked this.

I would be willing to request the Huawei box even if it is still in trial mode. What are some other options if it is next to impossible to get a SAC in my building?

Thanks for your responses!

TierX

join:2009-01-20
Canada
kudos:8
reply to nss_tech
said by nss_tech:

Last I heard the Huawei boxes had not been widely deployed yet. I have seen a customer on one of them pulling 25mbps on ADSL2 on a Dlink DVA3810 modem.

There are several hundred of them deployed, but you can't just request one. They're being installed in MDU's mainly in the lower mainland (where 100mbps down, 30mbps up Business VDSL2 plans are sold), and to offload ports from existing FTTN DSLAM's.

WhosTheBosch

join:2009-12-02
said by TierX:

(where 100mbps down, 30mbps up Business VDSL2 plans are sold)

Do you have anymore info on these packages? Cost, availability, etc?

balur

join:2010-04-28
kudos:1
reply to glparker4
Okay 3 things

1) SAC stands for street access cabinet, generally this is outside, on the street, which feeds your building, and usually others nearby. I can see mine from my building.

2) Honestly your SOL, a SAC isn't really something that can be requested. They are very expensive and adding one is not a minor undertaking. Telus will install them as they see fit, if they see it as cost effective.

3) This is went through the technicians head: "Ugh, I can't make this better, whey the hell did they sell this guy service that we can't provide... ugh... uh... how can I end this conversation and move on to the next job... uh... hmm... "Yeah, it doesnt work because you need a street access cabinet, one should have been installed but it wasn't, someone other then me screwed up..." oh... okay he's going to go bug someone else now, awesome"

glparker4

join:2002-11-02
Richmond, BC
reply to glparker4
Now I understand that the odds of having a SAC installed in my area are less than winning the lottery. I guess I'll need to move my services to Shaw. As a strata council board member, I'll have to inform residents that there are no options for improving service in our building.

As unfortunate as this outcome is, I appreciate the help and advice of everyone. Thanks!

Symtex

join:2005-04-06
Burnaby, BC
kudos:21
said by glparker4:

Now I understand that the odds of having a SAC installed in my area are less than winning the lottery. I guess I'll need to move my services to Shaw. As a strata council board member, I'll have to inform residents that there are no options for improving service in our building.

As unfortunate as this outcome is, I appreciate the help and advice of everyone. Thanks!

Is that a threat ?

Seriously, maybe you can convince TELUS to install an GPON OLT in your building and have all tenant take internet from TELUS in form of a contract. I am not sure if It can be done but that is a more probable scenario than asking for an ERA install just for you.
--
I may work for, but do not necessarily represent the views and beliefs of TELUS Communications.

glparker4

join:2002-11-02
Richmond, BC
No, it's not a threat at all. I prefer the Optik TV service over the offerings from Shaw, and I'm trying to do everything I can to patiently work with Telus & resolve these issues. This is why I am reaching out to the engineers on this board to understand what options we have before throwing in the towel.

I did not ask about a GPON OLT. However, I did contact Telus to discuss a bulk MDU agreement for TV & internet for all of the tenants. Again, the response was that one building did not qualify for the service while the other building did.

I received a call from a nice lady of the escalation team that indicated that an area manager is looking into the situation and could request a SAC installation through NOVA if engineering determines that it is needed. She indicated that there may be other obstacles but at least it's a start.

TierX

join:2009-01-20
Canada
kudos:8
said by glparker4:

I did not ask about a GPON OLT. However, I did contact Telus to discuss a bulk MDU agreement for TV & internet for all of the tenants. Again, the response was that one building did not qualify for the service while the other building did.

You should be asking them about the Huawei DSLAM, not a SAC. The Huawei would be placed directly in the equipment room of each apartment building, and would be a more practical (cheaper) solution than placing a SAC. Such agreements have been worked out with other MDU's, and would offer higher rates than an FTTN DSLAM placed at a SAC anyway.

pb2k

join:2005-05-30
Calgary, AB
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TELUS
reply to glparker4
Adding to what TierX is saying, every building has a demarc room, which in a large MDU would have a dedicated UMC (for POTS) and a DSLAM, and the closest you can ever get to a SAC is the demarc point.

This is an MDU demarc point:


Even in buildings that are copper fed, you still have the demarc point, and you can merely add a dslam (with permission from the condo board). A full 7330 requires a huge expense, as rectifiers, batteries and an enclosed rack are required, however a 48 port huawai could be +/- 190V line fed and just stuck on the wall, requiring (comparatively) very little cost.

glparker4

join:2002-11-02
Richmond, BC
It sounds like the Huawai DSLAM is what we need instead of a SAC. I have access to the demarc room so I will upload a photo as soon as I can.

glparker4

join:2002-11-02
Richmond, BC
Click for full size
Click for full size
Here are some photos of our demarc point.

pb2k

join:2005-05-30
Calgary, AB
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TELUS
I count 15 pots splitters, which assuming the enterphone actually requires them to be there (some techs just put them there out of habit) tells you how many customers are being served. Of those, 10 are VDSL2 splitters, which signify ttv, or just a recent internet only install. To be honest, that is a pretty tough business case, so unless they need to free up room on your existing dslam or the condo board signs a contract on behalf of the whole building for TTV service, you are SOL.

glparker4

join:2002-11-02
Richmond, BC
I have asked our account rep to look into the possibility of installing a DSLAM in our building, especially since we are contemplating an MDU contract and Telus is one of the providers that is being considered. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks!

glparker4

join:2002-11-02
Richmond, BC
reply to pb2k
I counted 16 VDSL splitters and 7 ADSL splitters. I don't know if that is enough to present a compelling business case for Telus to install additional equipment.

Also, you assumption about the enterphone is correct. A POTS line is required for each suite. I don't pay Telus for home phone service but I have a dial tone and I can call out to the local calling area.

titan_rw

join:2007-08-23
reply to balur
said by balur:

1) SAC stands for street access cabinet,

Actually, from what I understand, SAC stands for Serving Area Concept. Which is exactly what it does. It serves the immediate area around itself. DSL used to be fed out of the CO. Which limits which customers qualify for higher speeds. With SAC boxes, you move the dsl equipment out into the field, so more customers are 'close' to the dslams (the 'served area'). Therefore, as far as I know, a sac would imply a dslam for dsl. A 'sac' without dsl equipment would be more of a cross connect, or JWI (jumper wire interface). Although the 3 terms are generally used interchangeably.

BC Boy

join:2012-02-14
Kelowna, BC
reply to nss_tech
I've done cut sheets for at least a dozen of them in Kelowna. They are all pole mounted with 2x48 ports. They are also in Vancouver.

wildmanbob

join:2012-09-16
Calgary, AB
reply to pb2k
You can correct me if I am wrong....but for your building RDAC equipment would required 24 pairs for power and some fiber optic lines to work correctly. RDAC generate lots of heat, and unless you have 100+ potential customers, its not feasible.

the sac box does not benefit you at all. Its a fancy name for a junction box. Basically the connections in your building for the suits are very similar to that of a sac box....one is designed for outside and one is not.


DSA

@telus.net
Yes, unfortunately, it is not likely you will get the upgrade you desire. Telus does ongoing analysis to upgrade pockets where there is no SAC and/or Dslam box (they do exist), to add either FDHs (fiber) for new developments, or, SAC/DSLAM where the DSL ports are running out. Given your building is on CO count, even if your building all took TTV service, there is no guarantee that your building would be served via the Huawei, a DSLAM could also be added at the CO (a likely outcome), which wouldn't help your issues. It is likely you have some bad wiring in your building, which can cause some of the issues. It also could be half-tap, but then you should not have qualified for TTV in the first place.
There are challenging issues with TTV delivery, but unfortunately, a lot of these take a lot of time to fix, either due to money, or a business case decision to forego the odd customer, due to excessive cost.
Longterm, the plan is to go fiber for legacy buildings like yours, and convert in the basement to POTS/VDSL, but that is still a few years away.


AnonDSLGuy

@telus.net
said by DSA :

Longterm, the plan is to go fiber for legacy buildings like yours, and convert in the basement to POTS/VDSL, but that is still a few years away.

It's already happening in many buildings, but mainly as a way to offload ports from FTTN sites (we want all FTTN sites limited to 2 DSLAM's max, for reasons you'll soon learn).

@ wildmanbob, typically in these buildings a DC power plant is built, which sources power from the in-building AC power. Span/remote powering is actually not the preferred option in MDU's due to safety reasons (consider what happens if a lightning strike somehow hits near a power pair, we could blow the DC inverters and cause a fire in the MDU equipment room).