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sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to jack b

Re: Smart Meters Blamed for Fires

The meter and socket's clearly company-owned here. There's an anti-tamper tag on it that I'd have to break to even look at it.
--
Think Outside the Fox.



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

A couple of years ago the POCO changed out our old analog meters with new digital meters that they could read by driving around in a vehicle. Evidently it was a sub-contractor because they were not in a POCO vehicle. When he got to mine which is 300 amp service he just scratched his head and said he didn't have a meter to fit my service and he would have to come back. The one they put in looks just like the old analog meter with the dials and not the digital readout. Bottom line is this guy didn't have clue. He just pulled the old meters and stuck a new one in. Nothing else.

I have a "smart meter" like that. It's an old sangamo with retrofitted AMR. The cooperative can get hourly data from it and it communicates via powerline.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to sivran

said by sivran:

The meter and socket's clearly company-owned here. There's an anti-tamper tag on it that I'd have to break to even look at it.

The meter pan doesn't have to be utility owned for there to be a seal on it. Putting a seal is standard practice for most utilities anyway, whether you own the pan or not. They (rightfully) don't want you in there unless you're a utility worker or a licensed electrician (in some jurisdictions).


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

The 200 amp switch in the smart meters is of concern to me. Cheap Chinese junk purchased by utilities to pretend they are advancing conservation is trumping the safety of their customers.

FWIW the meters by GE and ITRON are made in the good ole USA.

Utilities have deep pockets and are not prone to buy into cheap products that can leave them holding the liability bag more so when you consider the fact that many times they pass the cost of the equipment to the ratepayers anyhow.

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to sivran

said by sivran:

The meter and socket's clearly company-owned here. There's an anti-tamper tag on it that I'd have to break to even look at it.

Don't be mistaken. My meter has an anti-tamper tag to prevent opening the METER, but nothing stops me from pulling out the pan's panel with the meter.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to SparkChaser

said by SparkChaser:

Remote Disconnect
• iCon A type iSA3 - Forms 1S-RD, 2S-RD, 12S-RD
• 2-Pole, single-throw
• Magnetic latching
• Rating: 200 A, 230 Vac, 60Hz, PF 0.7/0.8 lagging
• Endurance: 6000 cycles, 200 A, 240 Vac, 60 Hz,
PF 0.7/0.8 lagging
• Overload: 50 OPS, 300 A, 230 Vac, 60 Hz, PF 1.0
• Current Withstand: Per IEC 1036, ANSI C12.
1: 7,000 A Peak (5,000 Amps rms) 230 Vac, 60 Hz,
for 6 cycles at 0.7/0.8 PF with normal operation after
exposure; 12,000 Amps rms for 4 cycles with fail safe
conditions after exposure.

»www.sensus.com/documents/10157/3···heet.pdf

they don't mention what happens if you have a leading PF, or a surge over 240 volts though!. maybe that's why they go on fire


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by iknow:

they don't mention what happens if you have a leading PF, or a surge over 240 volts though!. maybe that's why they go on fire

Quite willing to bet the root cause of the fires is a loose connection in the meter pan either where the stabs connect to the socket or loose connections resulting from distrubing old hanging by a thread connections.

Wayne

--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

said by sivran:

The meter and socket's clearly company-owned here. There's an anti-tamper tag on it that I'd have to break to even look at it.

Don't be mistaken. My meter has an anti-tamper tag to prevent opening the METER, but nothing stops me from pulling out the pan's panel with the meter.

nothing physically, but hydro frowns on that especially because some people have been known to jump one leg of a meter to get some free power , nowdays any house with switchgear before the meter (common on indoor meter installations in older neighborhoods) meter readers are putting seals on the main switch boxes (where your main fuses are) because the power in those is un metered and there have been major issues with theft of power.

pullting the meter pan cover at the same time as the meter is a dangerous practice because you could inadvertanly have the cover touch one of the lugs in the meter pan, and when that happens i doubt your next of kin will have a good story to tell hydro!


49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3
reply to Jack_in_VA

Click for full size
downloadgrunner.pdf 364,087 bytes
Click for full size
downloadKG-K240.pdf 189,081 bytes
said by Jack_in_VA:

Of course Sensus will claim their equipment meets requirements but a lot of companies make similar claims that turn out to be completely false. Especially the cheap Chinese manufactured equipment.

Here's the data sheets of two most popular 200 amp meterbase latching relays not quite Chinese junk eh?

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


Lone Wolf
Ready For Retirement
Premium
join:2001-12-30
USA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
reply to telco_mtl

said by telco_mtl:

pullting the meter pan cover at the same time as the meter is a dangerous practice because you could inadvertanly have the cover touch one of the lugs in the meter pan, and when that happens i doubt your next of kin will have a good story to tell hydro!

Looks like the PECO workers are protected against fires.

From the link on Philly.com

quote:
Wearing fireproof clothing, a Peco field technician installs a smart meter. Peco is investigating malfunctions related to the units.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Mr Matt

My neighbor had something similar happen after they replaced his power pole after the April tornadoes. When they called EPB about the damages they pretty much denied any wrong dooing and politely told him good luck with suing the city in a city court.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



08034016
Hallo lisa Aus Amerika
Premium
join:2001-08-31
Byron, GA
reply to Raphion

said by Raphion:

Cheap chinese crap.

yup............

Mine is European made
--
Support
»www.minutemanproject.com/


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
reply to owlyn

We were just having a discussion over in Canchat on this. Well you can read my comment in the thread, but I'll post it here anyway. This was in relation to Corix, which has been subcontracted pretty much by utilities across the country to do the smart meter installation.

quote:
A buddy down the street had a new mains panel put in, when he got it done. He had a new panel plus mast put in. When Corix was 'hired' by the city to put in the smart meters, they were rammy enough they broke the upper and lower legs. Which required the city to come in and disconnect the mast from the pole, the inspector came by to take a look and required the box replaced as well due to the damage.

Hell they were also contracted to do the water meters here, incompetent doesn't do them justice. Anyone want a 15ft spring water leak? I had one of those. Solder joint was so shitty, I actually wondered if the idiot checked before they left.

But there's been quite a few cases out in BC as well, with the meters catching on fire. Whether from the installers, or from the meters, no one seems to be getting an answer.


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5
reply to owlyn

Trying to set a meter in a base with dry jaws (especially an old base) is just asking for trouble...



Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:12

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to The Pig

 

Tell them YOU DONT WANT IT!!!!!!! -- Ya gotta stand up if ya dont want this new intrusive crap installed!!!

»org2.democracyinaction.org/o/583···KEY=7308



KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS

Click for full size
NEXT GENERATION METER READER: NO INSTALLATION REQUIRED...
said by Dude111:

Tell them YOU DON'T WANT IT!!!!!!! -- Ya gotta stand up if ya don't want this new intrusive crap installed!!!


--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom




Homeowner defense against next generation meter reader.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Dude111

said by Dude111:

Tell them YOU DONT WANT IT!!!!!!! -- Ya gotta stand up if ya dont want this new intrusive crap installed!!!

»org2.democracyinaction.org/o/583···KEY=7308

WHat's intrusive? HAving the electric company know how much electricity you're using and being able to disconnect you for non payment? How dare they...


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Lone Wolf

Re: Smart Meters Blamed for Fires

said by Lone Wolf:

Looks like the PECO workers are protected against fires.

From the link on Philly.com

quote:
Wearing fireproof clothing, a Peco field technician installs a smart meter. Peco is investigating malfunctions related to the units.

Makes sense. Arc flash can burn you.

You don't plan to get into an accident but you wear your seatbelts anyway, right?


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to owlyn

Just great.

They put them on ours. And its right next to the gas line (in).

First I was always worried someone might jump the curb and hit the main + meter (happened in Montgomeryville, PA). Now I have to worry that the meter will fail.


--
Splat



Pancho

@charter.com
reply to leibold

Very good analysis. Thanks for dispelling all the nonsense.



neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
reply to owlyn

Good `ol GE I-210+ here... Wish there was a way I could monitor the meter the same way the utility does...


cOOLguy

join:2009-09-10
Torrington, CT
reply to owlyn

One possible reason to oppose the use of these meters is that they create the infrastructure for real-time pricing of electricity, which is not a good deal for everyone. Your privacy may be sold, not only to marketing firms, but to thieves. (o wait) And finally people who live in states with overzealous regulatory bodies may find themselves paying alot more. Then there will be the question of how easily the police can access meter data as a source of circumstantial evidence.

With real time pricing, the price will go up by 5-10x during peak usage hours, and cost substantially less at night. The principle reason is that it takes many hours for coal or oil fired plants to stabilize. These plants have to be ready by the time peak demand occurs, or even have to be fired up just because of a weather forecast, whether it is accurate or not. And so they incur charges even if they dont produce 1 kwh of energy.

The real-time pricing is supposed to economically discipline every one to minimize having to run these plants. This is easier to stomach if you dont work at home or are not retired or dont have kids or elderly to keep cool. But even on weekends, you are going to have to manage your air conditioning/cooking/laundry or you are going to have a big big surprise on your bill.

It is also well-known that energy usage patterns which will now be recorded versus time-of-day are predictors of behavior and demographics which marketing firms would love to buy, either in aggregate or by household.

Coupled with architectural data from the town hall, I suppose DEA will be able to compute a likelihood that you are using electricity for illegal purposes. And will the police be able to gather this data without a warrant?

Again with architectural information, your state agency to declare that you have too much air conditioning. Therefore you need to pay a tax.

Hackers who can get into the databases will to be able to determine when you are home or not and sell the information. Do the utilities intend to protect these records with the same IT protections required by MasterCard and Visa?



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

All the POCO needs is the total used so they can bill you for it. They already know their loads every second of every day and have computer programs and algorithms to predict demand.

The most efficient plants and generators are base loaded and the least efficient are allowed to float with the load. Not rocket science for the controls engineers.



49528867
Premium
join:2010-04-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL
kudos:3

said by Jack_in_VA:

All the POCO needs is the total used so they can bill you for it.

Not true when time based discounts come into play.

Wayne
--
Madness takes its toll, please have exact change ready…


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by 49528867:

said by Jack_in_VA:

All the POCO needs is the total used so they can bill you for it.

Not true when time based discounts come into play.

Wayne

"IF AND WHEN" if ever. All of us don't share your enthusiasm for excessive control of every facet of our lives. If customers fight with a united effort it would never come to pass. Only those who roll over and accept anything will allow the company to dictate what the terms are instead of the customer telling the company what they want. There is a big difference.

Time based discounts can only happen here if allowed by our elected representatives. We have the ability to remove any that dare vote for it and so far they are not willing to take the chance.
Right now it would be political suicide for any that do.