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koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

1 recommendation

[My Review] WD Caviar Red (WD10EFRX)

Finished blogging about it today.

»koitsu.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/···d10efrx/

At least for the 1TB model, consider me impressed. Please don't ask here about the 2TB or 3TB models -- I don't have any to test (see end of review for why).

It seems Western Digital was listening to their customers (and crotchety guys like me ) after all. Kudos to Western Digital for paying attention and actually caring.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.



sbconslt

join:2009-07-28
Los Angeles, CA

Great writeup koitsu, thanks.

Do you zero all your new drives end to end with dd?



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

Yup. I actually follow this procedure (written for people using Windows; obviously the method I use is dd on an *IX box, etc...):

»Re: Repair or Replace Disk Warning on Brand New WD Caviar Black.

There's a lot of logic behind why I do what I do there.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.



sbconslt

join:2009-07-28
Los Angeles, CA

We should roll a bootable CD that automates your standard procedure.



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

I don't think it'd benefit end users much, since it requires familiarity with how to read/interpret SMART statistics (not to mention everything else SMART-related ), and if issues are encountered, further manual tests + tinkering to get further details. For example, I do my testing on a FreeBSD box but my actual workstation is a Windows machine (e.g. PuTTY/SSH'd to FreeBSD box then I do my work from there). If I encounter issues I then have a GUI + tools + Internet connection and so on I can use.

Otherwise those familiar with Linux and other *IXes can accomplish basically the same thing with any LiveCD distro out there (Knoppix, etc.) as long as it has dd and smartmontools (and many do), and possibly X + GUI + network support.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.



signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to koitsu

"DD"?

Oh, I see, it is a nix command, reading about it now, I'm a little confused but have some idea. Sorry to take thread afield.

Koitsu, you use BSD. Why BSD rather than some flavor of Linux? Note, I have never used BSD and don't know it. PM me please if this is going OT!

I read your blog submission and it sounds pretty cool, almost as though having a red rather than a black is not a gimp. I don't understand a lot of command syntax, command syntax is still a black art to me, I have yet to learn chmod, doh!



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

1 recommendation

said by signmeuptoo:

Koitsu, you use BSD. Why BSD rather than some flavor of Linux? Note, I have never used BSD and don't know it. PM me please if this is going OT!

Why do I use it present-day? Because I'm a fool (read: idiot). Why did I switch from Linux to BSD back in 1996/1997? Because Linux at the time was an utter chaotic mess of kernel patches and utter nonsense, while FreeBSD was a minimal OS (small, easy to rebuild all binaries + kernel) with everything all-in-one.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to koitsu

Hah hah, dude, you are a genius! But I see, BSD was around and established when Linux was Torvalds and friends, so I can comprehend THAT!

BTW, I found a nice explanation of DD: »www.thegeekstuff.com/2010/10/dd-···xamples/

As with all nix, pretty damned powerful command. It is time I started learning the command syntax and stopped being intimidated by it, seriously! Boy this interwebs thingy is amazing when you figure out how to use it, doh!
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

There is dd for Win32 which you can use too, but many of the features on the *IX versions don't exist in it. However, for copying data and doing other normal things, it absolutely does the job. I tend to trust it more than I do GUI applications, heh. Don't let anyone tell you to go install Cygwin just for dd either -- utter overkill.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


praetoralpha

join:2005-08-06
Pittsburgh, PA
reply to koitsu

What do you mean my "MHDD" in your blog post?



Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12

Probably Mechanical Hard Disk Drive, as opposed to SSD.



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

Correct.



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
reply to koitsu

Brief follow-up: I updated my blog post today to reflect addition of some very minor benchmarks.

I'm going to quote my own blog to drive this one point home:

said by koitsu:

It’s very important to understand that I do not perform extensive benchmarking — meaning, I do not care to go to great extremes or run a whole gamut of tests, workloads, etc.. I prefer to focus on drive features, reliability, and behaviour. If you’re wanting extensive benchmarks and opinions relating to such, please use your favourite search engine to find reviews of the drive.

And please do not ask me for opinions/etc. of the benchmark results, why I use what tool I use, why I didn't run some other tool, blah blah blah. The results are for you to interpret and not for me to explain/debate/etc.. Please draw your own conclusions. Thanks for respecting that.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5

What applications would you say the red drives is appropriate for? I take it it is a decent choice for a data and some programs drive, or in other words, the second drive of a home/SOHO system. But I black or SSD is still advised for OS drive, si?

What I mean is I understand this is a storage drive, should it only be used for NAS and such? Forgive me that I have no experience with NAS setups...



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

I think the red drive is a reasonably low power drive, but without some of the irritating and extreme features of the green drives. I think they're good for just about anything except:
a) when high performance is needed
b) the lowest possible power consumption is needed due to some thing such as insufficient cooling
--
Wacky Races 2012!



signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to koitsu

Incidentally, how many platters on the black drives, for the 1 TB and 2 TB models?

Oh, and these aren't red because they are blushing, are they? (Ok, stupid humor)



sbconslt

join:2009-07-28
Los Angeles, CA
reply to koitsu

Guess what review Anandtech floated today:

»www.anandtech.com/show/6157/west···-premium



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
reply to signmeuptoo

said by signmeuptoo:

Incidentally, how many platters on the black drives, for the 1 TB and 2 TB models?

Oh, and these aren't red because they are blushing, are they? (Ok, stupid humor)

"It depends". There are many "revisions" of the Black drives (ex. WD1001FALS vs. WD1002FAEX), but AFAIR the 1TB models have 2 platters, and the 2TB models have 3 platters. This is because "1TB platter technology" (just what I'll call it for now) did not exist at the time of their creation.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
reply to sbconslt

said by sbconslt:

Guess what review Anandtech floated today:

»www.anandtech.com/show/6157/west···-premium

Ha, imagine that. Their article is much more concise than mine, but seem to note the same things mine has.

I choose not to cover TLER/CCTL because unlike the rest of the industry I find it to be purely a marketing ploy despite what "enthusiasts" claim. That is another topic (and a highly opinion-oriented one) and is something I choose not to discuss at length since the people asking often don't have familiarity with the ATA protocol + storage model in general to understand exactly why it's a ploy.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to koitsu

You know what surprises me? Seagate doesn't seem to market drives in a similar way to this (blue, black, red, green) and I'm thinking it MUST be helping WD in sales and better qualifying consumers to the right matching product...



berserken

join:2011-03-27
Oakland, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to koitsu

Why do you make all the bits 0?

Edit: found this:

Why would I want to Zero Fill my drive?

The most common reasons to Zero Fill a SATA or ATA (IDE) hard drive are:
  • to remove a virus that cannot be removed without destroying the boot sector.
  • to change from one operating system to another and wish to remove everything from the drive.
  • to erase confidential information for privacy reasons.
  • to scan for bad sectors that can be detected and replaced with good spare sectors when writing to the sectors.

By design, modern disc drives maintain spare sectors for reallocation purposes. Usually, sectors become difficult to read long before they become impossible to read. In this situation the actual data bytes in the sector are preserved and transferred to the new spare during a sector reallocation. Similarly, when a disc drive writes data (like a zero fill erase procedure) and encounters a problem, the drive firmware retires the problem sector and activates a replacement before giving successful write status.


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

1 recommendation

Your question should have been placed in the below thread, and not a thread pertaining to a review of a specific model of hard disk:

»Re: Repair or Replace Disk Warning on Brand New WD Caviar Black.

Can you please re-post it so I can provide the answer/explanation in the correct thread? Thanks.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.



shearer
Northern Lights
Premium
join:2002-06-18
Asia
reply to koitsu

I see the Intellipark feature is still present on the Caviar Red. Is this no longer a bad thing given that from your tests, LCC count doesn't skyrocket easily anymore?



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

2 edits

Edit: Sorry, I'll rephrase (2nd time, sigh -- I'm tired and cranky. )

Whether or not this "IntelliPark" feature is "enabled or disabled" per what marketing and PR people say, or what PDFs say, doesn't matter as much as how the drive actually behaves. My blog details its behaviour, and it's a huge improvement (especially compared to the Greens).

The fact of the matter is this: ATA APM functions are entirely disabled, the Reds do not emit any kind of noise (clicking, thunking, screeching, etc.) to indicate head parking, and the LCC counter does not increase.



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to koitsu

Reds are apparently selling very well -- initially, they were about $10 - $20 more than comparable greens, but now, there's an almost $100 (!!) difference between the 3TB models.
»www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi···0Digital

I guess I shouldn't procrastinated.
--
Wacky Races 2012!



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

1 edit

NewEgg has their prices jacked up beyond belief, but only for 2TB models and larger. For example, TigerDirect (through Amazon) is selling the 2TB for $129, yet NewEgg is selling it for $179. The 3TB is $227 vs. NewEgg's $279. Here's the trending:

WD10EFRX: »camelegg.com/product/N82E16822236342
WD20EFRX: »camelegg.com/product/N82E16822236343
WD30EFRX: »camelegg.com/product/N82E16822236344

I've tried to tell people before, the prices of these things have nothing to do with classic "supply & demand" rules. This is someone intentionally making a crapload of money.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


jackharvest

join:2012-09-19

1 recommendation

reply to berserken

I've been scouring the internet for someone to confirm that a zero-fill erase method PROVOKES the hard drive to switch off bad sectors, and instead utilize spare good ones.

For this reason, I signed up to this forum to show my gratitude. Thank you!



berserken

join:2011-03-27
Oakland, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast




koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
reply to koitsu

Sorry to recap an old thread, but wanted to reply to myself (and to shearer See Profile) about IntelliPark:

It appears that Western Digital has updated all of their WD Red product documentation, removing any mention of IntelliPark. This conflicts with their first set of product documentation for the drive, which originally stated the drives did have the feature (and is why the field was labelled "Yes" on my blog). I've subsequently updated my blog + added a note to reflect that fact.

TL;DR -- It does not appear that the WD Red drives have IntelliPark.

It just goes to show that when companies get too big, the likelihood of them dropping the ball, even in their own product documentation, increases dramatically.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5

What is it now, 7200 I assume? BTW I checked your blog entry to see if it was mentioned there and saw the funniest of ads at the bottom of the page. The ad was a YouTube video for Will it Blend?. You haven't threatened to blend any of your drives have you? LOL