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cmaengdewd

@cox.net
reply to Frodo

Re: Assange makes 1st public appearance in 2 months

said by Frodo:

said by Blackbird:

the wording simply indicates that there shall be no extradition to a third country unless the original requested country agrees.

Apparently, Assange didn't trust England to prevent extradition to a 3rd country, so he went with Ecuador.

But I think England and Sweden should give the assurances necessary to Ecuador so that this extradition can proceed. Otherwise, it's going to look more and more like this Swedish extradition request was a pretext. I don't see what the problem is, if the extradition was genuinely to deal with the allegations made in Sweden.

Frodo, if the rule of specialty does apply as Ecuador thinks it does, then why is there a need for any kind of guarantee of anything at all since he's already protected. Further, why the worry of going to Sweden vs being in the UK and being extradited for the same thing.


Link Logger
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reply to OZO

said by OZO:

said by Link Logger:

What the UK should do is build a huge brick wall around the place,

Blake

You mean like the old wall around West Berlin, made my Stalin? Is that what and who inspired your suggestion? Yeah, dream on...

What the UK should do, they will do. And I hope they will do it, remembering history lessons.

Ya like that wall as it worked great for prevent stupid BS ideas from escaping from East Germany and brain washing the rest of the world. I can see it now we will have regular Julian Assange pontifications live from the Ecuadorean embassy balcony.
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OZO
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1 edit

1 recommendation

said by Link Logger:

said by OZO:

said by Link Logger:

What the UK should do is build a huge brick wall around the place,

Blake

You mean like the old wall around West Berlin? Is that what and who inspired your suggestion? Yeah, dream on...

What the UK should do, they will do. And I hope they will do it, remembering history lessons.

Ya like that wall as it worked great for prevent stupid BS ideas from escaping from East Germany and brain washing the rest of the world. I can see it now we will have regular Julian Assange pontifications live from the Ecuadorean embassy balcony.

The wall was built by Russians to ... prevent stupid BS ideas from escaping from East Germany? Wow!!! With this weird understanding of the history you left me speechless... Now I see why you want to build new walls Thanks for clarification of where you state though...
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Link Logger
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Look Familiar
said by OZO:

The wall was built by Russians to ... prevent stupid BS ideas from escaping from East Germany? Wow!!! With this weird understanding of the history you left me speechless... Now I see why you want to build new walls Thanks for clarification of where you state though...

You seem to forget a simple concept, walls have two sides. I'm very well aware of who built the Berlin wall and why, and I even have a piece of it in my office, but while the Russians built the wall to prevent people from escaping, it also prevented their ideas from escaping into the west. I find it funny that Julian Assange wants to end the war against whistle blowers, but refuses to answer to those which accuse him of wrong doing. As I said no doubt we will be subjected to regular pontifications from this pompous hypocrite from the Ecuadorean embassy balcony, who thinks that because of his self elevated position to be above the laws and punishments he wishes to enforces on others. Seems to sound like an old communist regime doesn't it.

If I was punk band looking to get some free media, every time Assange wanted to deliver forth his crap from the balcony, I'd be setup and ready to rock and drown his crap out as soon as he opened his mouth. I would imagine at some point the neighborhood might complain about the noise etc and that could be the end of his little speeches.

Blake
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Frodo

join:2006-05-05
reply to cmaengdewd

said by cmaengdewd :

Frodo, if the rule of specialty does apply as Ecuador thinks it does, then why is there a need for any kind of guarantee of anything at all since he's already protected. Further, why the worry of going to Sweden vs being in the UK and being extradited for the same thing.

As far as the 1st question is concerned, it probably has something to do with the fact that the sending country can waive specialty. Ecuador wants a guarantee that specialty won't be waived. As far as the 2nd question is concerned, I have no idea what the difference is between extradition from Britain to the US versus extradition from Sweden to the US.


norwegian
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Outback
reply to The Snowman

Side note: To the females of the forum, this post is just trying to be interpretative of the events, please do not think otherwise.

It is an interesting story if the news articles are correct and truthfully written:

»www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/···141.html

That day, the 39-year-old Australian gave a seminar in Stockholm organized by the Social Democratic Party's Christian wing and titled "The First Casualty of War is Truth".

Miss A, 31, was working for the organization and acted as an unofficial go-between for Assange and journalists during his visit.

She also allowed him to stay with her from his arrival in Stockholm on August 11, according to a transcript of the women's account to police obtained by AFP.

Miss A and Assange had sex several times at her one-room Stockholm flat, according to Swedish tabloids, giving details that were blocked out of the police transcript.

Representatives of Swedish prosecutors told the British hearing that "unlawful coercion" occurred on August 14 because Assange held down Miss A in a sexual manner.
They were not sure they wanted to (press charges), they wanted to get advice
Defense lawyer Claes Borgstroem

Another encounter on August 18 was characterized as "sexual molestation", because Assange had sex with Miss A without a condom despite her "express wish" one should be used, they said.

Assange also "deliberately molested" Miss A on the same night "in a way designated to violate her sexual integrity", the British court heard.

Nonetheless, the WikiLeaks head stayed at Miss A's flat until August 20, even accompanying her to a party on August 15.

On her still active blog, the 31-year-old describes herself as "a political scientist, communicator, entrepreneur and freelance writer with special knowledge in faith and politics, equality matters, feminism and Latin America".

A Master's thesis on Cuba, her admiration for former Argentinean president Nestor Kirchner and a now-removed blog post on how to get revenge on an ex-boyfriend have led to a slew of cyberspace rumors about her motives for accusing Pentagon nemesis Assange.

"CIA agent, angry feminist/Muslim-lover, Christian fundamentalist, lesbian and desperately in love with a man, can one be all that at the same time?" she commented on her Twitter account earlier this month.

Miss W., 27, was also in the audience at Assange's talk on August 14, sitting in a bright pink jumper on the front row with a number of journalists.

Her background and occupation are not as well know as her co-accuser's, but her admiration for Assange and her encounters with him are described in detail in the police interview transcript.

She saw him on television discussing the release in July of classified U.S. documents on the Afghanistan war, and told police she found him "interesting, courageous and admirable".

When she found out the WikiLeaks head was speaking in Stockholm on August 14, she went to the event, insisted on spending the evening with Assange and friends after the talk, and ended up alone with him at the cinema.

There they flirted and he said he found her "very attractive," she told police.

Two days later, they travelled to Miss W's home in Enkoeping, some 50 kilometers (30 miles) northwest of Stockholm.

But Assange "spent the train ride looking at Twitter posts about himself" and by the time they arrived at her place, "the passion and excitement were gone", she told investigators.

The rape allegations stem from later that night at Miss W's home: the British court heard that Assange had sex with her without a condom while she was asleep.

The following morning, they had breakfast together, and "in an attempt to de-dramatize what happened", she made "sarcastic comments".

She then took him back to the train station and he promised to call her.

Defense lawyer Claes Borgstroem said the two women later discovered they had both had similar experiences with Assange and went to the police on August 20.

"They were not sure they wanted to (press charges), they wanted to get advice" and were also worried they could have contracted HIV, Borgstroem told reporters earlier this month.

"When they told the police officer, a woman, she realized that what (the women) were telling her about was a crime. She reported that to the public prosecutor who decided to arrest Assange," the lawyer said.

The following day, the story made the front page of tabloid Expressen, launching the scandal and its numerous ramifications.

I guess it depends on who and where....I know here if you sleep with a woman in her home and then with another in the same house, police aren't involved, but mates of the girls will tend to deal justice if at all. Not trying to say it is good......

.......but what surprised me in the article was the mention of CIA.
Just happened to be out of town for a few days and still had numerous occasions together after the event as well.....something doesn't mesh...then they met and joined up to ask advice? Once you have 2 on one in a court process, there is no going back...why do you think police will always be in pairs....it gives strength to the events.

---------------------

»www.deccanherald.com/content/122···nge.html

Julian Assange, the founder of the WikiLeaks anti-secrecy organisation who was released from a British jail late last week, is facing a new challenge: the leak of a 68-page confidential Swedish police report that sheds new light on the allegations of sexual misconduct that led to Assange’s legal troubles.

The Swedish report traces events over a four-day period in August when Assange had what he has described as consensual sexual relationships with two Swedish women. Their accounts, which form the basis of an extradition case against Assange, are that their encounters with him began consensually, but became nonconsensual when he persisted in having unprotected sex with them in defiance of their insistence that he use a condom.

Assange’s supporters have pointed to Swedish prosecutors’ flip-flopping in the case — reviving allegations that had at one point been mostly dropped — as more evidence of the manipulation of the case.

But the police report and dozens of interviews in recent months with people in Sweden linked to the case bolster, to some degree, the women’s assertions that they were not put up to the charges by enemies of Assange as well as prosecutors’ claims that the reversal was quite normal. They say it resulted from different levels of prosecutors having different opinions on the seriousness of the allegations.

However, those who have questioned the women’s allegations have cited the fact, supported by the police report, that the women involved seemed willing to continue their friendships with Assange after his alleged sexual misbehaviour until they discovered by talking to each other that they had both been sexually involved with him.

Seems like it was all too good to be true, and in dreams of faeries and flowers, love can be blind. There is nothing worse than a woman's scorn. Add to that a judicial system that protects women
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
Premium
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I can see that he is caught up in a web of controversy according to this link:
»www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Society/G···ernment/

In the general election of September 19, 2010, Fredrik Reinfeldt became the first conservative prime minister to be reelected — although his center-right alliance could not gain an absolute majority. The Prime Minister’s Moderate Party garnered 30.06 percent, far ahead of its previous result of around 20 percent. In a historic defeat, the Social Democrats won only 30.66 percent of the vote, far below previous levels of around 40 percent and their lowest percentage since World War I.

With its 2010 election, Sweden became the latest in a series of European nations where populist right-wing parties have entered parliament. Up until now, Swedish voters had not given the Sweden Democrats sufficient support to overcome the 4 percent constitutional threshold needed to enter parliament. The 2010 election is likely to mark the beginning of an era of sharper political division in Sweden.


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
Premium
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Outback

And a little posted by a mother:

»wlcentral.org/node/2671

involving the US, the UK, Sweden, and Australia.

1. Australian PM Julia Gillard and Opposition leader Tony Abbot backed new Extradition Act Amendments making it easier for U.S.A to extradite Aussies. The Greens fought it.

2. For the FIRST TIME Aussies can be now be extradited for minor offences.

3. The protection of "political" motives has been weakened. If the charge is "terrorism" then "political" cannot apply to prevent extradition.

4. The U.S.A. recently expanded its definition of "terrorist" to include peaceful protesters - "Low level terrorism".

5. Under the new NDAA legislation, the U.S became a police state - citizens and foreigners can be arrested without warrant and indefinite detention applies.

6. In 1971 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled it legal to publish classified documents. Obama is now trying to label media who do so as terrorists.

7. Modifications to the act included changing "protection from death penalty" to "likelihood the death penalty would be carried out".

8. Note that the U.S.A is in the top 5 countries for killing its own citizens, and the only Western country in that top 5.

9. Even Minor Offences under the new Extradition Amendments are punished with up to 12 months imprisonment.

10. The UK/US Bilateral Treaty allows the U.S.A to extradite from the UK without any prima facie case (i.e. evidence).

11. The Swedish/US Bilateral Treaty gets around safeguards of normal extradition with a fast-track "Temporary Surrender" clause.

12. The US Grand Jury convenes in secret. There are 4 prosecutors, no defence, and no judge. It can issue indictments for Extradition with no proper legal process.

13. Sweden has NEVER refused an Extradition request from the U.S.A.

14. In 2001 Sweden gave two innocent Egyptian refugees to the CIA for rendition to Egypt, where they were tortured.

15. The Swedish Justice Minister who signed off on the CIA rendition torture flight was Thomas Bodström.

16. Thomas Bodström is now the business partner of Claes Borgström, the politician/lawyer of the two Swedish women in the Assange case.

17. The Australian Greens supported a motion by Senator Scott Ludlam to protect Julian from "Temporary Surrender" to the U.S.A via Sweden. Both Labor and the Coalition opposed it.


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke


dave
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reply to norwegian

said by norwegian:

There is nothing worse than a woman's scorn. Add to that a judicial system that protects women

Seems like there's a little misogyny going on here...


norwegian
Premium
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Outback
reply to The Snowman

Also:

»www.smh.com.au/national/us-senat···b3n.html

THE head of the US Senate's powerful intelligence oversight committee has renewed calls for Julian Assange to be prosecuted for espionage.

The US Justice Department has also confirmed WikiLeaks remains the target of an ongoing criminal investigation, calling into question Australian government claims that the US has no interest in extraditing Mr Assange.

''I believe Mr Assange has knowingly obtained and disseminated classified information which could cause injury to the United States,'' the chairwoman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Dianne Feinstein, said in a written statement provided to the Herald. ''He has caused serious harm to US national security, and he should be prosecuted accordingly.''

Seeking asylum in Ecuador … Julian Assange. Photo: AP

Senator Feinstein's call for the Obama administration to move ahead with plans to prosecute Mr Assange came as a US Justice Department spokesman, Dean Boyd, publicly confirmed that ''there continues to be an investigation into the WikiLeaks matter''.
Advertisement

Mr Assange remains in Ecuador's embassy in London while its government assesses his application for asylum.

In a statement made last Friday, one of Mr Assange's British lawyers, Susan Benn, highlighted evidence of the existence of a secret US grand jury investigation targeting Mr Assange and other ''founders or managers'' of WikiLeaks.

The Foreign Affairs Minister Bob Carr, claimed last week there was ''not the remotest evidence'' of the US government wanting to prosecute the WikiLeaks founder.

On June 20, a US State Department spokeswoman, Victoria Nuland, denied any US involvement in diplomatic discussions relating to Mr Assange's asylum bid or extradition to Sweden. Yet when asked specifically about the US government's interest in Mr Assagne she said: ''We want to see justice served. Let's leave it at that.''


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
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reply to dave

If you were to use that term, I would think there would be no hope for Mr Assange, and it would start a roller coaster ride down hill, whether innocent or guilty. And that needs to be addressed first and foremost.

As for revealing documents, it isn't the first time and it won't be the last time documents surface before the "Official Release of Documents" or what is left of them after the shredder has had a play.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
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Outback
reply to The Snowman

For those that are interested and do want to read, this link might feed that hunger - just be ready for some juicy words.

»news.slashdot.org/story/12/08/17···-assange

That's it from me, back into my cocoon.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
Premium
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Outback

1 edit
reply to dave

said by dave:

said by norwegian:

There is nothing worse than a woman's scorn. Add to that a judicial system that protects women

Seems like there's a little misogyny going on here...

You did notice the people involved then too at all levels.

I have 2 daughters I care for dearly, and the 2 women have fathers that would feel the same, as well as his family and obvious concern of a mother....but it seems posting here has a modded user already.......sheesh.


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to The Snowman

I agree with Daniel Ellsberg -

said by Daniel Ellsberg :

I congratulate Ecuador, of course, for standing up to the British Empire here, for insisting that they are not a British colony, and acting as a sovereign state ought to act.

everything that we’ve seen supports the position of his defense team, that this is not about sexual charges in Sweden, essentially, that that’s a cover story—whatever substance there may be to that story.

he had offered either to be questioned by the prosecutor herself or by some representative of her in the Swedish embassy or the British embassy or by British police in London, where he was, something that, by the way, is routinely done all the time, and the expense is paid for that, if necessary—all of that being refused. Why?

this man is charged with criminal charges by no country—not by Sweden, not by Britain, not by the United States, although there may in fact be a secret indictment already waiting for him in the United States, being denied or lied about right now by my country. But no charges have actually been made public. So, here, all this emphasis just to get him charged—just to get him questioned, rather, when he’s offered himself for questioning, even right now in the Ecuadorean embassy.

So I think that—in fact, I join his lawyers, Michael Ratner and others, in saying that he has every reason to be wary that the real intent here is to whisk him away to America, where it really hasn’t been made as clear what might be waiting for him as I think one can conjecture. The new National Defense Authorization Act—and I’m a plaintiff in a suit to call that act unconstitutional, in terms of its effect on me and on others, a suit that has been successful so far at the district court level and has led to that act being called unconstitutional.

said by The Independent :

What has hung over these proceedings – and led to the offer of diplomatic asylum (not political asylum, as widely reported) – is his claim that, once extradited to Sweden, he would be shipped to the US to stand trial for his part in the publication on Wikileaks of thousands of US government cables, and then possibly executed.


dave
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reply to norwegian

said by norwegian:

.......but what surprised me in the article was the mention of CIA.

This was in the context of her response on Twitter to people who speculated on her motives. That is, it appears she's writing in response to allegations that she was a CIA agent. As well as being a christian fundy. As well as being a muslim-lover. As well as being a lesbian. Etc.

That is, it's hardly surprising at all: if you take the view, as many have done, that it's all a set-up orchestrated by the USA, it is pretty much guaranteed that someone will say "she's a CIA stooge".


norwegian
Premium
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So you think it was just a "heat of the moment" comment on her behalf?

If they have copied her word for word, it would suggest she had fallen for him, and to find another woman in on the scene and in her house too. Dangerous grounds for any male.


dave
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1 edit

said by norwegian:

So you think it was just a "heat of the moment" comment on her behalf?

No, I think that if someone says "you are a CIA stooge", it's perfectly reasonable to say (sarcastically), "yeah, right, I look exactly like a CIA stooge".

It's not a heat-of-the-moment comment, it's just a regular sort of comeback to someone who says something that the comebacker perceives as ridiculous.

Note I don't have any source for this except for the source quoted by you:

quote:
"CIA agent, angry feminist/Muslim-lover, Christian fundamentalist, lesbian and desperately in love with a man, can one be all that at the same time?" she commented on her Twitter account earlier this month.

This does not mean she is admitting to being a CIA agent, angry feminist, muslim-lover, christian fundamentalist, lesbian, or desperately in love with a man. Rather, it looks like she's bemused by the catalog of contradictory accusations that have been made about her.

Why are you picking on the word "CIA" as opposed to, say, "muslim-lover"?


AVD
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reply to Name Game

said by Name Game:

said by StuartMW:

said by Name Game:

...inside the building behind his back in the shadows...

Might be Baltasar Garzon who is Assange's "legal adviser".

[att=1]

I think the girl is just a news reporter and the photo was set up...so what is the red tank and hoses in the corner by the wall with the holes in it ?

Edit: figured it out ..fire extinguisher and looks like was mounted on the wall at one time.

I was looking for a tank top and panty-hose.
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--Standard disclaimers apply.--


AVD
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reply to cmaengdewd

said by cmaengdewd :

said by Frodo:

said by Blackbird:

the wording simply indicates that there shall be no extradition to a third country unless the original requested country agrees.

Apparently, Assange didn't trust England to prevent extradition to a 3rd country, so he went with Ecuador.

But I think England and Sweden should give the assurances necessary to Ecuador so that this extradition can proceed. Otherwise, it's going to look more and more like this Swedish extradition request was a pretext. I don't see what the problem is, if the extradition was genuinely to deal with the allegations made in Sweden.

Frodo, if the rule of specialty does apply as Ecuador thinks it does, then why is there a need for any kind of guarantee of anything at all since he's already protected. Further, why the worry of going to Sweden vs being in the UK and being extradited for the same thing.

because the UK can waive the rule. Something Ecuador wan't assurances won't happen.
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--Standard disclaimers apply.--


THZNDUP
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1 recommendation

reply to The Snowman

After all this time, someone finally sees a certain similarity.

Are You Being Served (extradition papers)? Julian Assange compared to John Inman character after speaking at Ecuador embassy with new haircut
By Amy Oliver
PUBLISHED: 07:27 EST, 20 August 2012 | UPDATED: 12:48 EST, 20 August 2012

With their shock of white blonde hair and boyish faces they look uncannily alike.

But there is one major difference between WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and the late actor John Inman.

As Mr Humphries in 1970s sitcom Are You Being Served the late, great Inman's catchphrase was 'I'm free'.

The same could not be said for Mr Assange who is currently holed up in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London where he has been granted asylum.



...
»www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article···cut.html

And with this as a theme..........

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=To48HBVk4wA


Embedding is disabled so watch it on YouTube. There are some topical references that may be inferred from this made in 1977...........
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StuartMW
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LOL. I've seen many episodes of Are You Being Served? and the resemblance is remarkable. Mr Humphries was also gay although that was never explicit as I recall.

quote:
You've all done very well!
---Mr Grace

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THZNDUP
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A tribute to Inman with the song 'I'm Free' (same song as previous). Apply the song to Saint Julian de Assange.....

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ajN4y84xM

--
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EGeezer
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reply to Blackbird

It would get very interesting if they decided to ship Assange out in a crate declared as a diplomatic pouch.

Although Assange is wanted by Sweden on charges unrelated to the wikileaks scandal, I suspect they have agreed to send him to the US for bigger charges.

Assange has embarrassed many politicians from many governments, including the US, UK, France, Israel, Russia, China, several Arab states, both Koreas and Japan. As a result, he has made many enemies, so even his escape to Ecuador would only be a temporary reprieve.



Name Game
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reply to The Snowman

Why Assange Remained Within an Embassy Window to Deliver a Speech
»cryptome.org/2012-info/assange-j···dary.htm


dave
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

Mr Humphries was also gay although that was never explicit as I recall.

Only if mincing around, general swishiness, and double-entendres with laugh-track are not considered 'explicit'.

Not one of the finer products of British culture.

(This isn't modern revisionism. I knew it was a horrible piece of crap at the time.)


Rocky67
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2 recommendations

reply to Name Game

said by Name Game:

Why Assange Remained Within an Embassy Window to Deliver a Speech
»cryptome.org/2012-info/assange-j···dary.htm

This whole thing is ridiculous. I mean news articles with diagrams showing the positions of Mr. Assenge's feet?

Step back and look at yourselves people: you're at each others throats over a situation that doesn't directly concern any of you. It makes as much sense as getting in a fist fight over which sports team you prefer.

--
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EGeezer
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said by Rocky67:

[you're at each others throats over a situation that doesn't directly concern any of you. It makes as much sense as getting in a fist fight over which sports team you prefer.

I don't see anyone at each other's throats. As for diagrams, it's interesting to see how fine the line can be between what's legal and what's not. I find it an educational experience to see this thing evolve, and to see what precedents may be set regarding diplomatic protection stand-offs.

As others have said, embassies have been raided before, but a raid in this affair, if deemed legal by first world nations, could provide legal justification for more raids by other nations.

Robespierre, Stalin, the North Koreans, Soviets and other despots have managed to conduct a reign of terror by aggressively persecuting those who crossed seemingly inconsequential fine lines. We must be careful not to allow ourselves to succumb to the temptation to use their tactics.

After all, what goes around can certainly come around.


StuartMW
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reply to dave

Well Are You Being Served? is about 40 years old and from a time when societal norms were different. I think it's unfair to compare it with today's standards.
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dave
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reply to Rocky67

said by Rocky67:

This whole thing is ridiculous. I mean news articles with diagrams showing the positions of Mr. Assenge's feet?

Yeah, that article was quite comical. I liked this:

quote:
... toward a helicopter which may have been video-taping his exact position.

I'm interested in the notion that the balcony somehow is not a recognized part of the embassy but is back in British jurisdiction. The notion of 'outside the building' seems entirely irrelevant. Unless of course there are exactly no embassies in the world with grounds that are considered part of the protected area. And quite what that says for balconies still is unclear. And what about a rather wide window-sill?

Consider it this way: if you bought that entire building, would it include the balcony?

Anyone got any sources for such diplomatic niceties?

dave
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

Well Are You Being Served? is about 40 years old and from a time when societal norms were different. I think it's unfair to compare it with today's standards.

I'm not. I saw it when it was first broadcast in the early 1970s and thought it was dreadfully unfunny then.

But back to your original point: yeah, it was explicit. That was the entire joke: "he's a homosexual: ha, ha".