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dave
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3 edits

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reply to FF4m3

Re: Assange makes 1st public appearance in 2 months

Incorrect.

(I assume that you like that dogmatic one-word assertion style since you use it to the extent of being tedious).

A reasonable reader would read that and assume that Assange typed it.

After all, how do you "operate" a Twitter feed? It doesn't actually take much operating beyond typing the stuff that you want to post.

So, breaking it down, the Guardian reports that the feed "is generally presumed to be operated by Assange", from which a reasonable person may infer that Twitter postings from Wikileaks are generally presumed to be from Assange. (May not be, of course, hence "presumed"). From that, the reasonable person may further infer that these particular postings adhere to the usual pattern, and thus it is likely to be Assange behind them.

You know, the same way it's generally presumed that postings from some anonymous guy calling himself FF4m3 are from the same person.


Name Game
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It is not known who manages the WikiLeaks Twitter account, although some reports have said its founder Julian Assange has recently assumed control of the feed.

»wireupdate.com/wikileaks ··· ide.html

This is the last time the word "tacit" was used in reference to Assange

»www.dailykos.com/story/2 ··· e-Asylum

But never fear..there is a ...

New Passport for Julian
»twitpic.com/aupcjq
And he is going to run for the Senate
»twitter.com/Charlts/stat ··· =twitter
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FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to The Snowman
Condom used as evidence in Assange sex case 'does not contain his DNA':

Lawyers for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange have revealed that a key piece of evidence does not contain his DNA.

A torn condom given to Swedish police by one of the alleged victims was examined by staff at two forensic laboratories but they could not find any conclusive evidence of Mr Assange’s DNA on it.

The same forensic teams found DNA thought to belong to the WikiLeaks boss on another condom, which was submitted by the second alleged victim.

The revelation is contained in a 100-page police report that was written after witnesses were interviewed and forensic evidence had been examined.

The report, which has been seen by Mr Assange’s lawyers, has led to the Swedish authorities requesting his extradition from Britain to stand trial, though he is yet to be charged with any offence.

Mr Assange, who denies allegations of rape and sexual molestation, has been fighting extradition to Sweden for the past two years. He claims it is a ruse to send him to the United States where he could face trial for espionage.

In the report, the first alleged victim, now 33, claims she was sexually molested by Mr Assange at her flat in Stockholm on several occasions.

She also claims that Mr Assange deliberately ripped a condom before wearing it so that he could have unprotected sex with her against her will.

His lawyers have said that the fact no DNA could be found conclusively on an apparently used condom suggests a fake one may have been submitted.

The report also appears to cast doubt on the claim made by the second alleged victim, who told police that she was ‘raped’ by Mr Assange when she was asleep.

But during a police interview, the woman, now 29, apparently suggests that she did not mind him having unprotected sex with her.


The Swedish prosecutor’s office refused to comment on the report but said the case was ongoing.



FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to dave
said by dave:

IYou know, the same way it's generally presumed that postings from some anonymous guy calling himself FF4m3 are from the same person.

Along with your other assumptions, dave, you assume that I'm a guy.

dave
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Indeed I do, in a provisional sense. It's a statistically-reasonable assumption, but not a position I feel strongly about, and am prepared to revise it if contrary evidence presents itself.


Ian
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2 recommendations

reply to FF4m3
said by FF4m3 :

Lawyers for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange have revealed that a key piece of evidence does not contain his DNA.

You know what? There's a time and a place for Assange's lawyers to present what they think is evidence of Assange's innocence. That place is in Sweden, and that time is up to the Swedish authorities, not Julian Assange or his lawyers.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


FF4m3

@bhn.net
said by Ian:

said by FF4m3 :

Lawyers for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange have revealed that a key piece of evidence does not contain his DNA.

You know what? There's a time and a place for Assange's lawyers to present what they think is evidence of Assange's innocence. That place is in Sweden, and that time is up to the Swedish authorities, not Julian Assange or his lawyers.

Glad that we all agree on that.


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to dave
said by dave:

Incorrect.

Spin it dave. Post a link that states that Assange typed those tweets


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to Name Game
said by Name Game:

This is the last time the word "tacit" was used in reference to Assange

»www.dailykos.com/story/2 ··· e-Asylum

From your link:
said by DailyKos :

The notoriously conservative Washington Post (WaPo) editorial board published a tacit threat to Ecuador for Ecuador's granting Wikileaks founder Julian Assange asylum...

WaPo's implied threat demonstrates the all too cozy relationship between the supposedly-independent main stream media and the U.S. government, which the media depends upon for reporting, even to the point of giving the government veto power on certain stories and quotes.

WaPo's threat of "consequences" for Ecuador show that not only are whistleblowers faced with severe retaliation in the form of criminal prosecution under the Espionage Act, but those who protect them are facing retaliation.



FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to dave
said by dave:

Indeed I do, in a provisional sense. It's a statistically-reasonable assumption, but not a position I feel strongly about, and am prepared to revise it if contrary evidence presents itself.

Here's contrary evidence: I want you to think of me as female until I instruct you otherwise. How's that?

dave
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3 edits

1 recommendation

reply to FF4m3
said by FF4m3 :

said by dave:

Incorrect.

Spin it dave. Post a link that states that Assange typed those tweets

Don't have to. We're talking about a statement in the Guardian that says it is widely presumed that Assange is behind the posting. The statement made is one of presumption but not of fact. You've now twisted it to claim of a published statement that Assange definitely typed those tweets.

To recap:

1. The Guardian reports that it is widely presumed that Assange operates the Twitter feed.

2. Ian and I infer that 'operate the feed' means 'post messages'. I further state it's a reasonable inference.

3. You attept to draw some pettifogging distinction between 'operating' and doing the typing.

4. And here, several replies further on, you're attempting to twist the situation by demanding a link to something that neither of us claimed existed in the first place.

In short, the subject has become your interminable quibbling. Which simply seems to be for the sake of quibbling.

dave
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reply to FF4m3
What you 'want' is not evidence in support of what 'is'.

Had you declared that you were in fact female, I'd perhaps have agreed that you can be assumed to be such. But since you were not straightforward enough to state a fact, instead indulging your penchant for little games, I feel no obligation to care about it.


FF4m3

@bhn.net
said by dave:

What you 'want' is not evidence in support of what 'is'.

Had you declared that you were in fact female, I'd perhaps have agreed that you can be assumed to be such. But since you were not straightforward enough to state a fact, instead indulging your penchant for little games, I feel no obligation to care about it.

You are merely who you are, dave. It's ok.

dave
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Condescending, too.


Name Game
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reply to The Snowman
As you get older it matter more who you are not... than who you are. Dave seems to reject the role of a pawn.


Name Game
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reply to The Snowman
Ecuador offers to send WikiLeaks founder to Sweden
By Andres Schipani in Bogotá and Hannah Kuchler in London
©Getty

Ecuador’s government may ask the UK to allow safe passage of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to its embassy in Sweden, so that he can respond to sex crimes allegations there.
Foreign Minister, Ricardo Patiño, who is likely to meet Britain’s Foreign Secretary William Hague in New York next week, at the UN General Assembly, said Ecuador was considering the transfer as an option to solve a diplomatic stalemate over Mr Assange, who is wanted in Sweden on allegations of rape and sexual assault.

The two foreign ministers will resume their discussions of Mr Assange’s case among other foreign policy issues. Britain has repeatedly said it will not grant him a safe-passage to Ecuador.
Safe passage to Sweden would allow Mr Assange to “remain under our protection while also satisfying the demands of the Swedish justice system,” Mr Patiño said.
The British Foreign Office said on Saturday it had a binding obligation to extradite Mr Assange if he left the Ecuadorean embassy and that it fully intended to do so. “We want to reach a diplomatic solution but need to make sure our laws are respected and followed,” a spokesman said.

»www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ec97e ··· 7de.html

So nice of them to solve a problem they created in the first place..guess there is no longer any political advantage of using him and now he is just baggage.

To read the full story if that link will not work for you ..then use the google link

»www.google.com/search?q= ··· ie=UTF-8

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PrntRhd
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join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
But being in the Equador Embassy in Sweden is still not considered to be in Sweden itself, they know that. Just another tease.


Name Game
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The Ecuadorian embassy in Stockholm is a large 4 story building that contain the counsulate and lots of living space and a nice park across the street. Maybe he is starting to stink in London.

Engelbrektsgatan 13, Stockholm, Sweden


norwegian
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»www.heraldsun.com.au/new ··· 79515547

A spokesman said: "We've made our position very clear on Mr Assange, mainly that he has exhausted the option of appeal and we are under a binding obligation to extradite him to Sweden and we have to carry out this obligation and we fully intend to do so."

Swedish foreign ministry spokeswoman Linn Duvhammar told AFP, "We cannot speculate on what such a solution might be like," adding, "We have received no request."

It seems under diplomatic escort isn't an option.

I thought a diplomatic envoy was not allowed to be convicted on a local law? I know he is not an envoy as such this isn't relevant, I guess what I'm asking is there or could there be "diplomatic immunity" placed on him by Ecuador for the trip?

That would stop the English arresting him? What if they do, would that stand as diminishing units of world power? Would that step over International legal boundaries?

It seems to me this is about getting him to Sweden, not a fix for the British legal system that seems a little bruised and wants to save face?
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Ian
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said by norwegian:

It seems to me this is about getting him to Sweden, not a fix for the British legal system that seems a little bruised and wants to save face?

What's bruised about the British legal system exactly? They have nothing to "save face" from.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


norwegian
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There is a case to be heard in Sweden?
Either country should be able to get him there, shouldn't they?

So why if Ecuador delivered him, would the British stop them and then want to charge him before he faces the courts in Sweden? I don't understand this part; does Britain want to charge him for breaking bail because he is there now and they do not want to process extradition orders over breaking bail because he may not want to go back there either?

Bruised? They let him go under home arrest?
And it all caused a public fiasco or nightmare for them?

I still think of some of the great conspiracy movies, "once you are in the system", guilty or not; you are in the system. Personal thoughts I know, but still relevant whether guilty or not wouldn't you say?
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Name Game
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None of what you question makes sense to me..the dork is running from the mess he caused..it's about him not the system...time for him to face facts out there..he can walk out of that embassy anytime he wants.. but he loves the drama.


Link Logger
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reply to norwegian
said by norwegian:

There is a case to be heard in Sweden?
Either country should be able to get him there, shouldn't they?

So why if Ecuador delivered him, would the British stop them and then want to charge him before he faces the courts in Sweden? I don't understand this part; does Britain want to charge him for breaking bail because he is there now and they do not want to process extradition orders over breaking bail because he may not want to go back there either?

Bruised? They let him go under home arrest?
And it all caused a public fiasco or nightmare for them?

I still think of some of the great conspiracy movies, "once you are in the system", guilty or not; you are in the system. Personal thoughts I know, but still relevant whether guilty or not wouldn't you say?

So what guarantees can Ecuador give that they will in fact take him to Sweden and deliver him to the Swedish authorities? How do we know that they aren't just planning on loading him up on a plane and flying him to Ecuador instead of Sweden? Can we make a deal so if the plane gets closer then half way to Ecuador we can shoot it down for example? If everyone is so sure that Ecuador will take him to Sweden then this deal shouldn't be a problem to make.

Blake
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norwegian
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said by Link Logger:

So what guarantees can Ecuador give that they will in fact take him to Sweden and deliver him to the Swedish authorities?

None I guess. You could say the same about anyone else putting him on a plane. If there are hops involved who will guarantee he doesn't get redirected mid-flight with whom ever escorts him, I guess there is a slightly higher chance with Ecuador than Britian, but the same rules apply to both countries?

said by Link Logger:

If everyone is so sure that Ecuador will take him to Sweden then this deal shouldn't be a problem to make.

Blake

I thought this was all tried before and we are full circle. However I don't remember specifics about Ecuador escorting him initially, they wanted Sweden to come visit.

Also, when he is in an enclosed court hearings in Sweden, who is to say Sweden will release him if innocent? Every choice we make has 2 minimum outcomes, I gather this situation isn't any different, they can or they cannot.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Link Logger
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The only person/country who has definitely reneged on their agreements thus far has been Assange concerning his bail conditions.

Blake
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norwegian
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That we agree on.

Still though, doesn't the US' Fifth Amendment still raise eyebrows here?

The Fifth Amendment (Amendment V) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, protects against abuse of government authority in a legal procedure. Its guarantees stem from English common law which traces back to Magna Carta in 1215. For instance, grand juries and the phrase due process (also found in the 14th Amendment) both trace their origin to Magna Carta.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fi ··· titution

While this story initially isn't about the US laws, far from it, but on the International stage, shouldn't or doesn't Assange feel this type of pressure and concern for his own well being? Let's forget the legal system for what he has been alleged of for a second, if he fears for his life or his well being, shouldn't he or anyone be entitled to safe passage before during and after?

Anyway I'll get off my soapbox, the rights of a single person to defend him/herself are dwindling, you only have to hear of the so called "friends" all turn against him the moment the word "rape" was mentioned, guilty or not.

"Oh what a wonderful world"

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· =related

--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Ian
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said by norwegian:

...shouldn't or doesn't Assange feel this type of pressure and concern for his own well being? Let's forget the legal system for what he has been alleged of for a second, if he fears for his life or his well being, shouldn't he or anyone be entitled to safe passage before during and after?

Any accused has a reasonable and justifiable fear of being found guilty and having to go to jail. Assange is accused of rape or some type of sexual assault in Sweden. Should we all of the sudden be concerned with the fairness of the Swedish justice system just because of Assange? I think not.

For the record, I don't think Assange has any particular legitimate "fear of his well-being". He fears going to jail. Hardly unique.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Name Game
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reply to norwegian
I think he has the right to be stupid..but for now I kinda like him being the doorman at the Ecuadorian Embassy..keeps him out of trouble.


Link Logger
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reply to norwegian
said by norwegian:

That we agree on.

Still though, doesn't the US' Fifth Amendment still raise eyebrows here?

The Fifth Amendment (Amendment V) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, protects against abuse of government authority in a legal procedure. Its guarantees stem from English common law which traces back to Magna Carta in 1215. For instance, grand juries and the phrase due process (also found in the 14th Amendment) both trace their origin to Magna Carta.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fi ··· titution

While this story initially isn't about the US laws, far from it, but on the International stage, shouldn't or doesn't Assange feel this type of pressure and concern for his own well being? Let's forget the legal system for what he has been alleged of for a second, if he fears for his life or his well being, shouldn't he or anyone be entitled to safe passage before during and after?

Anyway I'll get off my soapbox, the rights of a single person to defend him/herself are dwindling, you only have to hear of the so called "friends" all turn against him the moment the word "rape" was mentioned, guilty or not.

"Oh what a wonderful world"

(youtube clip)

Has he been charged with anything yet, then thus far I think the only thing he has to fear from the US is his tin foil is to tight. The US doesn't like lots of people, but that doesn't mean they all disappear over night (OK Bin Laden did, but that was no secret he was on the hit list). When you play around those who commit crimes which bring about charges (ie Manning), then of course you might be investigated to see if you had a part, and Julian should know this. I mean the guy hasn't even had charges laid against him and he thinks he's going to disappear into the dark, never mind a trial (do you think the US could get away without a trial for him?). Julian is working the system to his benefit, playing supposed fear of the US against an investigation in Sweden.

Who he might want to start fearing are those who don't like the US, as wouldn't it be bad press/etc for the US if something mysterious happened to him and this is a situation of Julian's own making.

Blake
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DrStrange
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reply to The Snowman
Not to go OT, but whatever became of that 'insurance file'?