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norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to Ian

Re: Assange makes 1st public appearance in 2 months

There is a case to be heard in Sweden?
Either country should be able to get him there, shouldn't they?

So why if Ecuador delivered him, would the British stop them and then want to charge him before he faces the courts in Sweden? I don't understand this part; does Britain want to charge him for breaking bail because he is there now and they do not want to process extradition orders over breaking bail because he may not want to go back there either?

Bruised? They let him go under home arrest?
And it all caused a public fiasco or nightmare for them?

I still think of some of the great conspiracy movies, "once you are in the system", guilty or not; you are in the system. Personal thoughts I know, but still relevant whether guilty or not wouldn't you say?
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

None of what you question makes sense to me..the dork is running from the mess he caused..it's about him not the system...time for him to face facts out there..he can walk out of that embassy anytime he wants.. but he loves the drama.



Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to norwegian

said by norwegian:

There is a case to be heard in Sweden?
Either country should be able to get him there, shouldn't they?

So why if Ecuador delivered him, would the British stop them and then want to charge him before he faces the courts in Sweden? I don't understand this part; does Britain want to charge him for breaking bail because he is there now and they do not want to process extradition orders over breaking bail because he may not want to go back there either?

Bruised? They let him go under home arrest?
And it all caused a public fiasco or nightmare for them?

I still think of some of the great conspiracy movies, "once you are in the system", guilty or not; you are in the system. Personal thoughts I know, but still relevant whether guilty or not wouldn't you say?

So what guarantees can Ecuador give that they will in fact take him to Sweden and deliver him to the Swedish authorities? How do we know that they aren't just planning on loading him up on a plane and flying him to Ecuador instead of Sweden? Can we make a deal so if the plane gets closer then half way to Ecuador we can shoot it down for example? If everyone is so sure that Ecuador will take him to Sweden then this deal shouldn't be a problem to make.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

said by Link Logger:

So what guarantees can Ecuador give that they will in fact take him to Sweden and deliver him to the Swedish authorities?

None I guess. You could say the same about anyone else putting him on a plane. If there are hops involved who will guarantee he doesn't get redirected mid-flight with whom ever escorts him, I guess there is a slightly higher chance with Ecuador than Britian, but the same rules apply to both countries?

said by Link Logger:

If everyone is so sure that Ecuador will take him to Sweden then this deal shouldn't be a problem to make.

Blake

I thought this was all tried before and we are full circle. However I don't remember specifics about Ecuador escorting him initially, they wanted Sweden to come visit.

Also, when he is in an enclosed court hearings in Sweden, who is to say Sweden will release him if innocent? Every choice we make has 2 minimum outcomes, I gather this situation isn't any different, they can or they cannot.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Link Logger
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join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
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1 recommendation

The only person/country who has definitely reneged on their agreements thus far has been Assange concerning his bail conditions.

Blake
--
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norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

That we agree on.

Still though, doesn't the US' Fifth Amendment still raise eyebrows here?

The Fifth Amendment (Amendment V) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, protects against abuse of government authority in a legal procedure. Its guarantees stem from English common law which traces back to Magna Carta in 1215. For instance, grand juries and the phrase due process (also found in the 14th Amendment) both trace their origin to Magna Carta.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amen···titution

While this story initially isn't about the US laws, far from it, but on the International stage, shouldn't or doesn't Assange feel this type of pressure and concern for his own well being? Let's forget the legal system for what he has been alleged of for a second, if he fears for his life or his well being, shouldn't he or anyone be entitled to safe passage before during and after?

Anyway I'll get off my soapbox, the rights of a single person to defend him/herself are dwindling, you only have to hear of the so called "friends" all turn against him the moment the word "rape" was mentioned, guilty or not.

"Oh what a wonderful world"

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nGKqH26···=related

--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by norwegian:

...shouldn't or doesn't Assange feel this type of pressure and concern for his own well being? Let's forget the legal system for what he has been alleged of for a second, if he fears for his life or his well being, shouldn't he or anyone be entitled to safe passage before during and after?

Any accused has a reasonable and justifiable fear of being found guilty and having to go to jail. Assange is accused of rape or some type of sexual assault in Sweden. Should we all of the sudden be concerned with the fairness of the Swedish justice system just because of Assange? I think not.

For the record, I don't think Assange has any particular legitimate "fear of his well-being". He fears going to jail. Hardly unique.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

1 recommendation

reply to norwegian

I think he has the right to be stupid..but for now I kinda like him being the doorman at the Ecuadorian Embassy..keeps him out of trouble.



Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to norwegian

said by norwegian:

That we agree on.

Still though, doesn't the US' Fifth Amendment still raise eyebrows here?

The Fifth Amendment (Amendment V) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, protects against abuse of government authority in a legal procedure. Its guarantees stem from English common law which traces back to Magna Carta in 1215. For instance, grand juries and the phrase due process (also found in the 14th Amendment) both trace their origin to Magna Carta.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amen···titution

While this story initially isn't about the US laws, far from it, but on the International stage, shouldn't or doesn't Assange feel this type of pressure and concern for his own well being? Let's forget the legal system for what he has been alleged of for a second, if he fears for his life or his well being, shouldn't he or anyone be entitled to safe passage before during and after?

Anyway I'll get off my soapbox, the rights of a single person to defend him/herself are dwindling, you only have to hear of the so called "friends" all turn against him the moment the word "rape" was mentioned, guilty or not.

"Oh what a wonderful world"

(youtube clip)

Has he been charged with anything yet, then thus far I think the only thing he has to fear from the US is his tin foil is to tight. The US doesn't like lots of people, but that doesn't mean they all disappear over night (OK Bin Laden did, but that was no secret he was on the hit list). When you play around those who commit crimes which bring about charges (ie Manning), then of course you might be investigated to see if you had a part, and Julian should know this. I mean the guy hasn't even had charges laid against him and he thinks he's going to disappear into the dark, never mind a trial (do you think the US could get away without a trial for him?). Julian is working the system to his benefit, playing supposed fear of the US against an investigation in Sweden.

Who he might want to start fearing are those who don't like the US, as wouldn't it be bad press/etc for the US if something mysterious happened to him and this is a situation of Julian's own making.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
kudos:1
reply to The Snowman

Not to go OT, but whatever became of that 'insurance file'?



Link Logger
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Calgary, AB
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said by DrStrange:

Not to go OT, but whatever became of that 'insurance file'?

Still got it, but it might not be enough insurance
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
kudos:1

OK. Just wondering if anyone figured out the decryption key yet, and if so what was in the file.

I'm assuming, from your response, that the key hasn't been released or discovered.



FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to DrStrange

said by DrStrange:

Not to go OT, but whatever became of that 'insurance file'?

A Dispatch Disaster in Six Acts - 09/01/2011

WikiLeaks:*new* 65 GB Insurance file, following "Spy Files" release - Feb 23, 2012


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to DrStrange

said by DrStrange:

OK. Just wondering if anyone figured out the decryption key yet, and if so what was in the file.

I'm assuming, from your response, that the key hasn't been released or discovered.

All I know is Julian hasn't released the key to me, now that isn't to say that someone hasn't figured out what the key was, just that wikileaks hasn't released it.

But really how much insurance could this file be holding. Wikileaks already confirmed what everyone already knew, so whats left?

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1

I have a million dollar life insurance policy. How does that help me?
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback


I'm not sure.

It will help your immediate family though.



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to AVD

said by AVD:

I have a million dollar life insurance policy. How does that help me?

Take it with you..or better yet send me the premium..I'll invest it so you'll be rich when you get there.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to norwegian

said by norwegian:

I'm not sure.

It will help your immediate family though.

they should have insurance on me then,
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to lordpuffer

said by lordpuffer:

said by Frodo:

It's exactly this matter. If I leaked classified Iranian material, should I be extradited to Iran? ...

... if Assange is indicted and extradited to the U.S., he's just going to serve time if found guilty. No political reason not to extradite or to grant asylum. ...

So, if the prisons and treatment in Iran (or other nation) were U.S. style, you'd support extradition in the cited situation?


Blackbird
Built for Speed
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Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to The Snowman

Life insurance serves only one functional purpose for a buyer: income replacement for his survivors. If one has no income (or no survivors), there is no need for such insurance. In Julian's case, Wikileaks' insurance files function differently (or so he probably hopes) - they exist to protect his life. On that, only time will tell...
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775



lordpuffer
RIP lil
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Rio Rancho, NM
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·CableOne
reply to EGeezer

said by EGeezer:

said by lordpuffer:

said by Frodo:

It's exactly this matter. If I leaked classified Iranian material, should I be extradited to Iran? ...

... if Assange is indicted and extradited to the U.S., he's just going to serve time if found guilty. No political reason not to extradite or to grant asylum. ...

So, if the prisons and treatment in Iran (or other nation) were U.S. style, you'd support extradition in the cited situation?

No, not to Iran. Why? Because IMO, Iran does not have a legitimate government.
--
Obama in 2012 - Vote For The Poor And The Middle Class - The Teabaggers Are Done.


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

2 recommendations

reply to The Snowman

Assange will speak to UN from Ecuadorian Embassy in London
»www.cnn.com/2012/09/26/world/ass···dex.html

US calls Assange 'enemy of state'
»www.smh.com.au/national/us-calls···m7s.html
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»www.gladiator-antivirus.com/



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

You're kidding me. There goes that "loud mouth" attitude again. If a country is going to make "war" then they have to understand everyone is not going to like it. Look at the 60's rallies.

Now he can be labeled a "terrorist"; imagine some of those 60's icons under that law?

Assange remains holed up in Ecuador's embassy in London. He was granted diplomatic asylum on the grounds that if extradited to Sweden to be questioned about sexual assault allegations, he would be at risk of further extradition to the US to face espionage or conspiracy charges arising from the leaking of hundreds of thousands of secret US military and diplomatic reports.

US Vice-President Joe Biden labelled Assange a "high-tech terrorist" in December 2010 and US congressional leaders have called for him to be charged with espionage.

Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee - both once involved in presidential campaigns - have both urged that Assange be "hunted down".

Assange's US attorney, Michael Ratner, said the designation of WikiLeaks as an "enemy" had serious implications for the WikiLeaks publisher if he were to be extradited to the US, including possible military detention.

Hunted down eh? A nation picks their leaders, I deplore the citizens to shut down this major fiasco, you don't need Noriega any more.

Thumbs up for making a stand, this is neither the middle ages nor colonial Australia.

"It appears that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks are the 'enemy'. An enemy is dealt with under the laws of war, which could include killing, capturing, detaining without trial, etc."

The Australian government has repeatedly denied knowledge of any US intention to charge Assange or seek his extradition.

However, Australian diplomatic cables released to Fairfax Media under freedom-of-information laws over the past 18 months have confirmed the continuation of an "unprecedented" US Justice Department espionage investigation targeting Assange and WikiLeaks.

They are strong words over someone you would class as a journalist.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

We don't know if those two articles are based on facts..I thought some of the stuff was hokie since no backup material presented..nevertheless they are out there so let's see who is hanging out the dirty laundry today.



FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to Name Game

said by Name Game:

US calls Assange 'enemy of state'
»www.smh.com.au/national/us-calls···m7s.html

THE US military has designated Julian Assange and WikiLeaks as enemies of the United States — the same legal category as the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban insurgency.

Declassified US Air Force counter-intelligence documents, released under US freedom-of-information laws, reveal that military personnel who contact WikiLeaks or WikiLeaks supporters may be at risk of being charged with "communicating with the enemy", a military crime that carries a maximum sentence of death.

Assange's US attorney, Michael Ratner, said the designation of WikiLeaks as an "enemy" had serious implications for the WikiLeaks publisher if he were to be extradited to the US, including possible military detention.

"It appears that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks are the 'enemy'. An enemy is dealt with under the laws of war, which could include killing, capturing, detaining without trial, etc."

An enemy of the state is a person accused of certain crimes against the state, such as treason. Describing individuals in this way is sometimes a manifestation of political repression. For example, an authoritarian regime may purport to maintain national security by describing social or political dissidents as "enemies of the state". In other cases, the individual in question may have legitimately endangered the country and/or its population. For example, a double agent selling military or intelligence secrets could undermine a nation's security, and could therefore be considered an enemy not of just a person or entity within a state, but the state itself and all entities therein.



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to Name Game


It will be interesting.

What I can't understand is Fairfax saying they have documents via the 'freedom of speech' act and have for 18 months but to date I'm sure I've found none posted - what gives?

It is getting to a stage where we need to clarify facts and fiction and comments like that just don't cut it without proof.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Blackbird
Built for Speed
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Fort Wayne, IN
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Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

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reply to The Snowman

Ref: US calls Assange 'enemy of state'. The article is an exercise in PR. The US has hardly called Assange an "enemy of the state", at least yet. The article purports that an Air Force counter-intelligence investigation team looking at someone entirely different from Bradley Manning invoked that wording in their documents. Yet it remains unclear whether that term "enemy" was even being directly applied to WikiLeaks/Assange as "the enemy" or to the (then very real) possibility they were exploring along the avenue that a leak to WikiLeaks might constitute a direct informing of Al Qaeda et al about US military information, who indeed would have been the "enemy". The entire "meat" of the article revolves around the Assange lawyer's assertions, but the actual documents are not yet made fully public so that the rest of us can form our own opinions of whether or not those assertions are accurate or reasonable. In the end, the case was closed without any charges.

It should also be kept in mind that these were US military documents, presumably authored by US military investigators, dealing with a US military person who was (presumably) an American citizen, about matters that involved military-related conduct during war conditions. That's a far cry from applying directly to Assange's status as an Australian citizen, a civilian not involved in military affairs, who claims journalistic status, and who is accused of receiving and publishing leaked documents.

Likewise, stated opinions by publicity-conscious politicos like Biden, Palin, or Huckabee are essentially irrelevant. What is relevant is whether there remains a genuine, active investigation and effort by DOJ and/or grand juries to pursue charges against Assange, or whether there would be any reasonable grounds to believe the US military would somehow have the necessary authorization, will, and power to grab or kidnap Assange should he be extradited to Sweden. To date, just about everything concerning actual US intentions that is out there in the public domain consists of assumptions, innuendo, claims, and opinions.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to norwegian

Exactly..so easy these days to just put out bullshit to strengthen your position.. to much stuff on the internet these days is just crap talk.

Sound to me someone just took a look at what areas a person or group "might" be violating then plunked in their poster boy.



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to Blackbird

It's all good stuff..I like to see our poster boy getting paranoid..maybe he has nightmares..he certainly is not in control..
Australia is ignoring him so he can go piss up a rope.
»www.smh.com.au/opinion/political···nuj.html

He has no access to natural light

DVDs, Pizza, and Occasional Dancing:
»www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2···m/55901/
treadmill and a sun lamp:
»www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/···nge.html

I think he quite likes slumming and scrounging off other people.
--
Gladiator Security Forum
»www.gladiator-antivirus.com/



Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to The Snowman

Here is his spiel to the UN video.

»rt.com/news/assange-addresses-un···hts-069/