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lordpuffer
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reply to EGeezer

Re: Assange makes 1st public appearance in 2 months

said by EGeezer:

said by lordpuffer:

said by Frodo:

It's exactly this matter. If I leaked classified Iranian material, should I be extradited to Iran? ...

... if Assange is indicted and extradited to the U.S., he's just going to serve time if found guilty. No political reason not to extradite or to grant asylum. ...

So, if the prisons and treatment in Iran (or other nation) were U.S. style, you'd support extradition in the cited situation?

No, not to Iran. Why? Because IMO, Iran does not have a legitimate government.
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Name Game
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2 recommendations

reply to The Snowman

Assange will speak to UN from Ecuadorian Embassy in London
»www.cnn.com/2012/09/26/world/ass···dex.html

US calls Assange 'enemy of state'
»www.smh.com.au/national/us-calls···m7s.html
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norwegian
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You're kidding me. There goes that "loud mouth" attitude again. If a country is going to make "war" then they have to understand everyone is not going to like it. Look at the 60's rallies.

Now he can be labeled a "terrorist"; imagine some of those 60's icons under that law?

Assange remains holed up in Ecuador's embassy in London. He was granted diplomatic asylum on the grounds that if extradited to Sweden to be questioned about sexual assault allegations, he would be at risk of further extradition to the US to face espionage or conspiracy charges arising from the leaking of hundreds of thousands of secret US military and diplomatic reports.

US Vice-President Joe Biden labelled Assange a "high-tech terrorist" in December 2010 and US congressional leaders have called for him to be charged with espionage.

Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee - both once involved in presidential campaigns - have both urged that Assange be "hunted down".

Assange's US attorney, Michael Ratner, said the designation of WikiLeaks as an "enemy" had serious implications for the WikiLeaks publisher if he were to be extradited to the US, including possible military detention.

Hunted down eh? A nation picks their leaders, I deplore the citizens to shut down this major fiasco, you don't need Noriega any more.

Thumbs up for making a stand, this is neither the middle ages nor colonial Australia.

"It appears that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks are the 'enemy'. An enemy is dealt with under the laws of war, which could include killing, capturing, detaining without trial, etc."

The Australian government has repeatedly denied knowledge of any US intention to charge Assange or seek his extradition.

However, Australian diplomatic cables released to Fairfax Media under freedom-of-information laws over the past 18 months have confirmed the continuation of an "unprecedented" US Justice Department espionage investigation targeting Assange and WikiLeaks.

They are strong words over someone you would class as a journalist.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Name Game
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We don't know if those two articles are based on facts..I thought some of the stuff was hokie since no backup material presented..nevertheless they are out there so let's see who is hanging out the dirty laundry today.



FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to Name Game

said by Name Game:

US calls Assange 'enemy of state'
»www.smh.com.au/national/us-calls···m7s.html

THE US military has designated Julian Assange and WikiLeaks as enemies of the United States — the same legal category as the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban insurgency.

Declassified US Air Force counter-intelligence documents, released under US freedom-of-information laws, reveal that military personnel who contact WikiLeaks or WikiLeaks supporters may be at risk of being charged with "communicating with the enemy", a military crime that carries a maximum sentence of death.

Assange's US attorney, Michael Ratner, said the designation of WikiLeaks as an "enemy" had serious implications for the WikiLeaks publisher if he were to be extradited to the US, including possible military detention.

"It appears that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks are the 'enemy'. An enemy is dealt with under the laws of war, which could include killing, capturing, detaining without trial, etc."

An enemy of the state is a person accused of certain crimes against the state, such as treason. Describing individuals in this way is sometimes a manifestation of political repression. For example, an authoritarian regime may purport to maintain national security by describing social or political dissidents as "enemies of the state". In other cases, the individual in question may have legitimately endangered the country and/or its population. For example, a double agent selling military or intelligence secrets could undermine a nation's security, and could therefore be considered an enemy not of just a person or entity within a state, but the state itself and all entities therein.



norwegian
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reply to Name Game


It will be interesting.

What I can't understand is Fairfax saying they have documents via the 'freedom of speech' act and have for 18 months but to date I'm sure I've found none posted - what gives?

It is getting to a stage where we need to clarify facts and fiction and comments like that just don't cut it without proof.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Blackbird
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reply to The Snowman

Ref: US calls Assange 'enemy of state'. The article is an exercise in PR. The US has hardly called Assange an "enemy of the state", at least yet. The article purports that an Air Force counter-intelligence investigation team looking at someone entirely different from Bradley Manning invoked that wording in their documents. Yet it remains unclear whether that term "enemy" was even being directly applied to WikiLeaks/Assange as "the enemy" or to the (then very real) possibility they were exploring along the avenue that a leak to WikiLeaks might constitute a direct informing of Al Qaeda et al about US military information, who indeed would have been the "enemy". The entire "meat" of the article revolves around the Assange lawyer's assertions, but the actual documents are not yet made fully public so that the rest of us can form our own opinions of whether or not those assertions are accurate or reasonable. In the end, the case was closed without any charges.

It should also be kept in mind that these were US military documents, presumably authored by US military investigators, dealing with a US military person who was (presumably) an American citizen, about matters that involved military-related conduct during war conditions. That's a far cry from applying directly to Assange's status as an Australian citizen, a civilian not involved in military affairs, who claims journalistic status, and who is accused of receiving and publishing leaked documents.

Likewise, stated opinions by publicity-conscious politicos like Biden, Palin, or Huckabee are essentially irrelevant. What is relevant is whether there remains a genuine, active investigation and effort by DOJ and/or grand juries to pursue charges against Assange, or whether there would be any reasonable grounds to believe the US military would somehow have the necessary authorization, will, and power to grab or kidnap Assange should he be extradited to Sweden. To date, just about everything concerning actual US intentions that is out there in the public domain consists of assumptions, innuendo, claims, and opinions.
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Name Game
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1 edit
reply to norwegian

Exactly..so easy these days to just put out bullshit to strengthen your position.. to much stuff on the internet these days is just crap talk.

Sound to me someone just took a look at what areas a person or group "might" be violating then plunked in their poster boy.



Name Game
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reply to Blackbird

It's all good stuff..I like to see our poster boy getting paranoid..maybe he has nightmares..he certainly is not in control..
Australia is ignoring him so he can go piss up a rope.
»www.smh.com.au/opinion/political···nuj.html

He has no access to natural light

DVDs, Pizza, and Occasional Dancing:
»www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2···m/55901/
treadmill and a sun lamp:
»www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/···nge.html

I think he quite likes slumming and scrounging off other people.
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Name Game
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reply to The Snowman

Here is his spiel to the UN video.

»rt.com/news/assange-addresses-un···hts-069/



Link Logger
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reply to Name Game

Link Logger to address the UN from his bathroom in Calgary, of course I'll neglect to mention there are no charges against me and my bathroom asylum is because I jumped bail and don't want to go to Sweden to answer question concerning an investigation.

Blake
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Name Game
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Don't worry about flushing..we might need to make sure you have not leaked the secret recipe.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Yf4zz-yo


Name Game
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reply to Link Logger

We will have to use the famous binscope

»Re: UK's top investigator describes a life fighting cybercrime

I tried to leak it earlier in the day but no takers
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Link Logger
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reply to The Snowman

Where do they find these journalist who embellish stories like this?

quote:
THE US military has designated Julian Assange and WikiLeaks as enemies of the United States - the same legal category as the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban insurgency.
Show me a list on a .gov site that lists enemies of the state with Assange on it, go ahead I dare you to.

quote:
Declassified US Air Force counter-intelligence documents, released under US freedom-of-information laws, reveal that military personnel who contact WikiLeaks or WikiLeaks supporters may be at risk of being charged with "communicating with the enemy", a military crime that carries a maximum sentence of death.
Duh, your publishing classified documents on a public site, where anyone could read them, by definition, how does Wikileaks figure they get an exception?

quote:
The analyst's access to classified information was suspended. However, the investigators closed the case without laying charges. The analyst denied leaking information.
Clearance is a privilege, not a right and can be revoked at any time for any reason. Let see the documents were:

quote:
The documents, some originally classified "Secret/NoForn" - not releasable to non-US nationals
and this guy was

quote:
a cyber systems analyst based in Britain
sounds like someone figured out he had access to documents he wasn't cleared for and yanked his privileges. NOTE no charges were laid so the problem here would be, that they think he has ties to anti-US or anti-military groups, well duh again, must be a pretty crappy security analyst if he can't figure that one out. I read a 'Top Secret/NoForn' document that said he was having a physical relationship with an Iranian underage goat that he was slipping secrets too, go ahead prove me wrong.

quote:
US Vice-President Joe Biden labeled Mr Assange a "high-tech terrorist" in December 2010 and US congressional leaders have called for him to be charged with espionage.
And how are those charges coming along as its been almost 2 years since and, oh nothing. Like I said before the tin foil has been on for so long its gotten rather stinky under there, but if you wait long enough maybe something will happen, but let us know when that will be as I'm waiting for a Golden Frog to jump into my yard and sh*t diamonds all over the place. Right now its a race to see which will happen first.

quote:
Mr Ratner said that under US law it would most likely have been considered criminal for the US Air Force analyst to communicate classified material to journalists and publishers, but those journalists and publishers would not have been considered the enemy or prosecuted.
If those journalist aided or were otherwise involved in the crime of acquiring those documents, hell yes they would be prosecuted.

quote:
"However, in the FOI documents there is no allegation of any actual communication for publication that would aid an enemy of the United States such as al-Qaeda, nor are there allegations that WikiLeaks published such information," he said.

"Almost the entire set of documents is concerned with the analyst's communications with people close to and supporters of Julian Assange and WikiLeaks, with the worry that she would disclose classified documents to Julian Assange and WikiLeaks.
The document also didn't state that this journalist only writes part truths either, its a document with a topic, but I guess this journalist didn't include the stock price dip of Apple today, so I guess we are free to assume whatever we wish as being true based on his omission of this information in this article.

quote:
The Australian government has repeatedly denied knowledge of any US intention to charge Mr Assange or seek his extradition.
Maybe because there isn't any US intention to charge him or seek his extradition, that can't be.

quote:
The Australian diplomatic reports canvassed the possibility that the US may eventually seek Mr Assange's extradition on conspiracy or information-theft-related offenses to avoid extradition problems arising from the nature of espionage as a political offense and the free-speech protections in the US constitution.
Really, I'm sure if they find a reason to, they will charge him and request extradition, but any idea when that might be happening as I think I hear a frog on my lawn, maybe its time to go and rake up some diamonds.

Blake
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AVD
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reply to EGeezer

said by EGeezer:

said by lordpuffer:

said by Frodo:

It's exactly this matter. If I leaked classified Iranian material, should I be extradited to Iran? ...

... if Assange is indicted and extradited to the U.S., he's just going to serve time if found guilty. No political reason not to extradite or to grant asylum. ...

So, if the prisons and treatment in Iran (or other nation) were U.S. style, you'd support extradition in the cited situation?

you need an extradition treaty first. If we had a treaty first of all I hope it would take prison conditions into account and second of all I would say it would have to be enforced.
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to The Snowman

From The Guardian - 27 September 2012:

Amnesty International said the Swedish authorities should issue assurances to the UK and to Assange that if he left Ecuador's embassy and agreed to go to Sweden to face sexual assault claims, he would not be extradited to the US in connection with WikiLeaks.

Nicola Duckworth, senior director for research at Amnesty International, said: "If the Swedish authorities are able to confirm publicly that Assange will not eventually find himself on a plane to the USA if he submits himself to the authority of the Swedish courts, then this will hopefully achieve two things.

"First, it will break the current impasse and, second, it will mean the women who have levelled accusations of sexual assault are not denied justice.

"It is vital that states show they are serious about dealing with allegations of sexual violence and that they respect both the rights of the women who made the complaints and the person accused."



Blackbird
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reply to The Snowman

And the story remains at an impasse.

Assange wants a blank check that gives him sanctuary, no matter what (if any) charges for what (if any) reasons might ever be filed by the US leading to an extradition request for him from Sweden.

Sweden and the UK look at such a blank check as setting a nasty precedent and as an infringement on their sovereign right to determine their own compliance with existing treaties, as well as their view of the proper functioning of their own legal systems.

The US is playing all its cards (if any) close to its chest, since it gains nothing by saying anything at this point.

Ecuador looks at it as an opportunity to simultaneously elevate their "human rights" standing in the world (irrespective of their HR track record at home), while simultaneously attempting to bring embarassment to the US, UK, and Sweden who (I rather suspect) they view with strong measures of 3rd-world envy and dislike.

Meanwhile, Assange moulders away in the Ecuadorian embassy, representing a growing inconvenience and burden to their diplomatic staff - and in a form of jail only modestly better than he would face for breaking parole in the UK, fleeing court in Sweden, or facing whatever (if anything) in the US.

I wonder who will break first? My money would be on Ecuador or Assange...
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The Snowman
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reply to The Snowman

The Cypherpunk Revolutionary: Julian Assange

»www.themonthly.com.au/julian-ass···nne-3081

( information on the background of Julian Assange )



FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to The Snowman

 
 
UK seeking loophole in extradition agreement with Ecuador - 28 September, 2012:

Patino held a meeting with UK Foreign Secretary William Hague on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.

Summarizing the results of the talks, Patino said that he received written confirmation from London that it recognizes the validity of its 1880 extradition treaty with Ecuador. According to Patino, this agreement states that in cases like Assange’s, a person cannot be extradited to a third country.

During the talks Patino reminded his counterpart that the WikiLeaks boss is under Ecuador's jurisdiction, and asserted his country's determination to protect him.

Nevertheless, Britain has pledged to seek a diplomatic solution in order to find a way to extradite Assange.

The above screenshot from British Extradition Law and Procedure: Including Extradition ..., Volume 2 beginning page 312.


Link Logger
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reply to Blackbird

Assange has dug himself into a hole from which he can't get out of, so now all that is left is for him to do is fade into obscurity. The US won't press charges and if he goes to Sweden they won't extradite him and Assange instantly becomes a delusional fraud without any creditability, and he knows it and the US knows it, so all he can do is try to keep up the illusion that the evil US is after him and keep fighting the nonexistent extradition. At some point the Ecuadorians are going to give him the boot as he fades into irrelevance and becomes a liability rather then a political trophy of defiance against the US which scores them points in Central America. What will then happen will be rather interesting as which country will let him in, Sweden will give him the boot as soon as the investigation and whatever follows that, if anything is over, Britain isn't going to let him back in, so where does he go, Australia perhaps or some other wing nut country who collect even old worn out political trophies? The US would piss themselves silly if he showed up on their doorstep and they are under no obligation to admit him into the US for any reason.

Its one thing to claim your a martyr of freedom, but at some point you have to face your enemy and fall on their sword to seal the title of martyr, otherwise you become the boy who cried wolf. Assange has become the boy, as its been 2 years, no US charges, no US extradition, nothing, there is no wolf, there is no martyr.

Blake
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Ian
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reply to The Snowman

said by The Snowman:

The Cypherpunk Revolutionary: Julian Assange

»www.themonthly.com.au/julian-ass···nne-3081

( information on the background of Julian Assange )

Current Usage;

Julian Assange;

Common Douchebag.

Currently : Hiding out in a 3rd world embassy to avoid his "rapey" charges.


--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Name Game
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1 edit
reply to FF4m3

So funny there FF4me3..RT's stuff on Patino's propaganda to the press..must think he is in charge..links below are what really happened at that meeting...and Hague told the guy to go read that stuff..UK is not seeking a loophole..Ecuador is trying to make it all go away..knowing they have only one option..and their "guest "is not in good health..not surprised he is living on junk food.

»www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/ecudor···83303150

»www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art···cee5276a
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Name Game
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reply to FF4m3

Wikileaks' Assange marks Day 100 inside Ecuadorian embassy

Ecuador says it will host Assange in its London embassy indefinitely, but the decision to continue supporting the Wikileaks founder could have negative repercussions for the Andean nation.

Mr. Hague and Mr. Patino met today in New York to discuss the dispute, despite the British official’s skepticism regarding a quick solution.

“We agreed that we would continue to talk, and we will continue to talk about this issue with the government of Ecuador. But I see no sign of any breakthrough,” Hague told reporters at the UN.

»www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas···-embassy

The British government stressed to Ecuador today that it was under an obligation to extradite the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to Sweden, where he faces questioning over sex crimes allegations.

The foreign secretary, William Hague, held talks with Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patino, in New York, where ministers have gathered this week for a United Nations meeting.

Assange has been in Ecuador's London embassy since June as part of his bid to avoid extradition to Sweden. He fears being sent to the United States if he travels to Sweden, to face interrogation over the whistle-blowing website.

He has been granted political asylum by Ecuador but faces arrest if he leaves the embassy after breaking his UK bail conditions.

The Foreign Office said: "The foreign secretary said he wanted to see close and productive bilateral relations between the UK and Ecuador, including in the areas of trade and investment, higher education, and counter-narcotics co-operation.

"On the case of Mr Julian Assange, the foreign secretary told Minister Patino that the UK was under an obligation to extradite Mr Assange to Sweden.

"The concept of 'diplomatic asylum', while well-established in Latin America, did not feature in UK law.

"The foreign secretary described the extensive human rights safeguards in UK extradition law. He requested the government of Ecuador to study these provisions closely in considering the way ahead.

"Both ministers agreed that they were committed to the search for a diplomatic solution to Mr Assange's case. They were willing to meet again at this level in due course to continue these exchanges."

»www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/se···on-legal
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AVD
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reply to FF4m3

said by FF4m3 :

UK seeking loophole in extradition agreement with Ecuador - 28 September, 2012:

Patino held a meeting with UK Foreign Secretary William Hague on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.

Summarizing the results of the talks, Patino said that he received written confirmation from London that it recognizes the validity of its 1880 extradition treaty with Ecuador. According to Patino, this agreement states that in cases like Assange’s, a person cannot be extradited to a third country.

During the talks Patino reminded his counterpart that the WikiLeaks boss is under Ecuador's jurisdiction, and asserted his country's determination to protect him.

Nevertheless, Britain has pledged to seek a diplomatic solution in order to find a way to extradite Assange.

The above screenshot from British Extradition Law and Procedure: Including Extradition ..., Volume 2 beginning page 312.

nothing new here. I think the way it works is that Sweden should ask for extradition from equador directly. UK has no beef with Assuange.
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norwegian
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quote:
I think the way it works is that Sweden should ask for extradition from Ecuador directly
Sounds logical. Certainly better than the great lion forcing the upper hand by force as once was discussed and causing a massive international event that may spiral out of control.

I wonder how England would respond if Ecuador was to try and drive to the airport and escort him to Sweden under an extradition order of their own? Now that day I'd love to be filming the events.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



AVD
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said by norwegian:

quote:
I think the way it works is that Sweden should ask for extradition from Ecuador directly
Sounds logical. Certainly better than the great lion forcing the upper hand by force as once was discussed and causing a massive international event that may spiral out of control.

I wonder how England would respond if Ecuador was to try and drive to the airport and escort him to Sweden under an extradition order of their own? Now that day I'd love to be filming the events.

technically he did jump bail.
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Ian
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reply to norwegian

said by norwegian:



I wonder how England would respond if Ecuador was to try and drive to the airport and escort him to Sweden under an extradition order of their own? Now that day I'd love to be filming the events.

I suspect they'd stop the vehicle, and arrest Assange. The Ecuadorian consulate is Ecuadorian soil. Roads in the UK aren't. Those with him will likely not be charged with transporting a fugitive, because they'd have diplomatic immunity.
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reply to norwegian

said by norwegian:

...I wonder how England would respond if Ecuador was to try and drive to the airport and escort him to Sweden under an extradition order of their own? ...

I think that if Ecuador believed they had the legitimate right to do that, they'd already have tried it and defied UK to react against them. Part of the problem is that while there's a lot of chatter occurring between diplomats and via press releases, it's not matched by that much comprehensive, crystal-clear law and treaties... and Ecuador knows it. Assange hiding in their embassy is pretty much diplomatically unassailable... their moving Assange anywhere else is not.
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dslcreature
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reply to Link Logger

quote:
Declassified US Air Force counter-intelligence documents, released under US freedom-of-information laws, reveal that military personnel who contact WikiLeaks or WikiLeaks supporters may be at risk of being charged with "communicating with the enemy", a military crime that carries a maximum sentence of death.
Duh, your publishing classified documents on a public site, where anyone could read them, by definition, how does Wikileaks figure they get an exception?

One need not be suspected to have given up any classified goods to be charged under communicating with the enemy.

quote:
Mr Ratner said that under US law it would most likely have been considered criminal for the US Air Force analyst to communicate classified material to journalists and publishers, but those journalists and publishers would not have been considered the enemy or prosecuted.
If those journalist aided or were otherwise involved in the crime of acquiring those documents, hell yes they would be prosecuted.

Is that what happened?


norwegian
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reply to The Snowman

Seems there is still quite a lot going on in all this.

»www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oc···eit-bail

Julian Assange's supporters have been ordered to forfeit £93,500 in bail money after the WikiLeaks founder sought political asylum in the Ecuadorean embassy in London.

A court ruled on Monday that the payments must be made within a month by nine friends and backers who in 2010 pledged £140,000 to guarantee Assange would abide by bail conditions during a failed legal challenge to extradition proceedings brought by authorities in Sweden, where he faces allegations of rape and sexual assault.


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke