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Blackbird
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reply to Frodo

Re: WikiLeaks.org is crippled under a massive DDoS.

said by Frodo:

Ecuador seeks 'guarantee' Assange won't be extradited to US from Sweden
»in.news.yahoo.com/ecuador-seeks-···408.html

“ "We've never said that Julian Assange shouldn't answer to the Swedish justice system nor contribute to the investigation into these supposed crimes," Correa said.What we have always asked for is a guarantee that there won't be a second extradition to a third country as that would put at risk Mr Assange's life and freedom," Correa added. ”

So I think Sweden and Great Britain should issue the guarantees, so that the extradition truly is for the crimes alleged in Sweden and not as some sort of conduit to charges in the US.

Well... the problem there is that Correa is demanding carte-blanche guarantees against extradition per treaty by one sovereign state (US) from other sovereign states (UK, Sweden), should that effort be mounted. The principled response to his demand would be that, just as treaties guarantee the sovereign protection of an embassy on foreign soil, treaties guarantee signatory nations the right of extradition. So, just because Correa or others think it a good idea for UK/Sweden to guarantee no further extradition of Assange to the US, that could violate extradition treaties that are just as sacred as the treaties guaranteeing the sanctity of the Ecuadorian embassy. You can't have this sort of thing whimsically interpreted both ways... either treaties are binding, or they're not.

For better or worse, Assange is stuck in the embassy for the foreseeable future. His best hope would be for the US to renounce intentions to extradite (a very faint hope), or to find some crack Swedish lawyers smart enough to argue persuasively in Swedish courts to block extradition of Assange from Sweden according to terms of whatever US-Swedish extradition treaty exists.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775

Frodo

join:2006-05-05

There is a famous quote that I love that a prosecutor could "indict a ham sandwich".

And the thing is, this allegation in Sweden may have the quality of a ham sandwich indictment. It seems to me that countries could come up with a ham sandwich indictment anywhere to move a person to a jurisdiction with the desired extradition arrangements. So, I think Ecuador can look at the "big" picture.

My sense is that I agree with Ecuador. If Sweden and Britain want Assange to answer sexual assault allegations in Sweden, then confine the extradition to that matter.



Blackbird
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said by Frodo:

... It seems to me that countries could come up with a ham sandwich indictment anywhere to move a person to a jurisdiction with the desired extradition arrangements. So, I think Ecuador can look at the "big" picture.

My sense is that I agree with Ecuador. If Sweden and Britain want Assange to answer sexual assault allegations in Sweden, then confine the extradition to that matter.

The problem is that Ecuador simply does not have the authority to rule on their view of the "big picture", apart from the confines of their UK embassy. They do not have the sovereign authority to make the UK abbrogate their extradition treaty obligations with Sweden, nor do they have that authority to make the Swedes abbrogate whatever their extradition obligations with the US. They can give local embassy assylum to Assange, based on their "big picture" opinion, but that's the legal extent of it. The UK has to answer to Sweden regarding its treaty obligations, and Sweden has to answer to the US about its obligations - Ecuador has no role in those. It can further be questioned as to what extent diplomats of the respective nations could even 'legally' abbrogate the extradition treaties that are in place, either in whole or in part (by limiting terms/"extent" of extradition) since those involve the judicial systems of all parties involved - but that's an even thornier issue, and diplomats have such a checkered record in that regard since time immemorial.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


norwegian
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reply to Frodo

said by Frodo:

My sense is that I agree with Ecuador. If Sweden and Britain want Assange to answer sexual assault allegations in Sweden, then confine the extradition to that matter.

In fact Swedish govt has so far rejected opportunity to sit and discuss the case with Julian in the embassy. I find that very strange when it is standard due process.
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Link Logger
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said by norwegian:

In fact Swedish govt has so far rejected opportunity to sit and discuss the case with Julian in the embassy. I find that very strange when it is standard due process.

Standard due process, who's standard due process??

Blake
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norwegian
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said by Link Logger:

Standard due process, who's standard due process??

Blake

Good point, what I consider due process, might not be for another country...and as I'm neither traveled nor a legal person, you can take my words any way you want but here is a little food for thought:

The doctrine of specialty is also often applied even when not specifically stated in a treaty. It means that once a person has been surrendered, he or she can be prosecuted or punished only for the crimes for which extradition was requested, and not for any other crimes committed prior to the surrender. The doctrine was first established over a hundred years ago, in United States v. Rauscher, 119 U.S. 407, 7 S. Ct. 234, 30 L. Ed. 425 (1886). In Rauscher, the defendant, a U.S. citizen, was extradited from Great Britain for the beating death of a ship's crew member on a U.S. vessel but was indicted and tried on a charge of Cruel and Unusual Punishment based on the same act. Although the specialty principle was not specifically enumerated in the treaty that allowed the extradition, the U.S. Supreme Court held that an accused "shall not be arrested or tried for any other offense than that with which he was charged in those proceedings."

Extradition treaties often provide exceptions under which a nation can refuse to surrender a fugitive sought by another nation. Many nations will not extradite persons charged with certain political offenses, such as Treason, Sedition, and Espionage. Refusal to extradite under such circumstances is based on the policy that a nation that disagrees with or disapproves of another nation's political system will be reluctant to return for prosecution a dissident who likewise has been critical of the other nation. But, of course, not every criminal act will necessarily be protected. For example, some treaties provide that certain crimes, such as the assassination of a head of a foreign government, do not constitute political offenses that are exempt from extradition. The rise in airplane Hijacking, Terrorism, and hostage taking in the late twentieth century led many nations to enter into multilateral conventions in which the signing countries mutually agreed to extradite individuals who committed such crimes.

Since the 1980s, the international extradition process has been viewed by law enforcement authorities as too time-consuming, expensive, and complicated. It has also been criticized for frequently failing to bring fugitives to justice. As a result, some countries, including the United States, have turned to abduction to return a fugitive to a nation to be tried. Although its legality is questionable, abduction

»legal-dictionary.thefreedictiona···radition

So according to that, Frodo See Profile seems to be the closest with facts to date in regards to how Julian is to be processed.

However jumping back n forth in both discussions here seems to help split the truths, and now it seems to be there to discuss these questions, so maybe this one needs to be locked, as the mods have not taken advice to hand, and we will discuss twice it seems.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke


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