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newbee777

@terra.net.lb

Wlan network

Hi everyone
I need help in creating a wlan network across my village , that supports these conditions.
1- my village is of 6 KM radius, consists of mountains and valleys.
2- support speed to customers up to 4 Mbps, (internet in our county is slow , 4Mbps is considered fast )
3- web interface authentication, so each customer connects to the wireless then is directed to a page were he must submits his username and password
4- complete control over the bandwidth of each customer.
5- support gaming network between all the customers.
6- to be able later to create my own websites that can be accessed by my customers only.
7- supports about 10 to 20 thousand customer.
8-*** Cost-effective (Low costs) ****
this is what i am trying to achieve in my network , so i want to now what equipments i need from access points , servers antennas .... and how to develop this network.

bdnhsv

join:2012-01-20
Huntsville, AL
Where do you live? Different countries have varying laws about which wireless channels can be used and how much power can be used on those channels.

You can throw your requirement #8 off your list. There's nothing inexpensive about building an ISP that will support 10,000 - 20,000 users.

a 6KM radius with lots of hills and valleys means you'll have to do an in-depth site survey to determine where you'll need to place transmitters, antennas, etc. to get full coverage. You'll also likely want some way to backhaul data between towers/antenna sites - so start thinking about if you're going to build that or lease something from someone else.

Lastly for now - for 10K+ users at 4mb/s you're going to need some healthy bandwidth to the internet. Find the local LEC's in your area and start getting quotes for OC48's and OC192's (you'll need an address where the core of your network is going to be located for them to give you a quote).


newbee777

@terra.net.lb
thank you for the fast reply ,
I live in lebanon , and i think there is no limitation on power and channel to be used.
in my area the isp doesn't care about the government when spreading a wireless network since there are no laws for that.
Also isp's fights between each other since everyone is interfering on the other.
I only know that the use of internet over satellite and wimax frequency are restricted.
so i want to cover my area with a frequency that will get less interference and i am thinking of using wireless-N , since it is not used in my area.
Also i am trying to get the internet connection from a Microsoft tower located about 30 to 50 KM away , so i will be using a wireless device to get a link to the tower.

bdnhsv

join:2012-01-20
Huntsville, AL
Actually Wimax would be the best way to cover an area the size you are talking about. 802.11n uses a much higher frequency and thus has a much shorter effective range (300-600 feet outdoors with line of sight), and it doesn't penetrate walls and buildings very well. Wimax on the other hand can reach miles and does penetrate walls and buildings better. In the US, Wimax requires a license from the FCC - I don't know what you have to have in Lebanon. What's your total budget to get your ISP started?

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to newbee777
For 10K - 20K userbase, you may as well bite the bullet, do it right and hire a consultancy service because
you're basically becoming a full fledged ISP newbee777 and need more expertise than can be found via
Google / searchengine of choice.

My 00000010bits

Regards


newbee777

@terra.net.lb
reply to newbee777
thanks for the reply HELLFIRE ,
about the 10k users , when building my network at start i will cover an area of users of few hundred to a thousand at maximum, but the server i want it to handle 10k users for later "when i start spreading".
So i will be building a small network , then i will mimic it and construct the same to the other parts of my village.
Thus i want to know what server i need to handle 10k users , how can i achieve web authentication since i want to make my wireless network open but when the user connect to the network and try to access a webpage he will be transferred to another web page were he will need to fill in his username and password , I want to know how can i do so while having complete control over user bandwidth.And at last i want the equipments to be able to handle network gaming.


newbee777

@terra.net.lb
reply to bdnhsv
Dear bdnhsv,
about wimax i considered it before very well , but in our country it is only used by a few large companies , and i will need a huge amount of money to get a license , and every year i will have to pay taxes to the company.
while ordinary wireless network (2.4ghz) it is not licensed and the government permits using it on any channel and with any power , so i don't have to pay taxes to anyone , this means more profit.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to newbee777
YOur better off asking these questions in the wisp forum. They are professionals that do this sort of setup all the time and can assist in terms of equipment, support issues etc........

»Wireless Service Providers


Semaphore
Premium
join:2003-11-18
101010
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to newbee777
Mikrotik can do everything you're looking for. If you want Cost Effective you should focus on Quality equipment because in the end if you reach even only 1000 customers the cost of the equipment is nothing compared to what you will spend supporting it if it's crap, and going back to upgrade ~$300,000 in customer radios is not easy to do when THAT second go around comes right out of your pocket.


ponline

join:2004-03-04
presheva
reply to newbee777
There is no such thing as one sever upfront for 20k clients.
Dont worry for the 'server', if you want to start small, make multiple PoPs, and one NOC, think abut 100 clients first.

If you grow up the last thing that will cost you is replacing the server to hold 20k customers, until you reach that number you will be replacing a lot of things on the noc.
What you need to worry is -Try not to replace wireless infrastructure every time you grow. Make solid links, and solid PoPs from the beginning.
Plan the number of clients that the pop will cover up front - If you think one pop will cover 100 clients, plan it from the beginning , don't go back and trying to upgrade that pop to 1000 clients, if you planned it for 100 in the beginning that will cost you and will disturb your network.
I would suggest you start with few POPs, and gradually grow the coverage area by adding more PoPs.
If you plan solid ptp links upfront, eficcient routing , adding a new pop will not disturb your network at all, it will only require a bandwidth upgrade at the NOC which you will do it as needed.

If you want cost effectiveness work with UBNT equipment for wireless and MIkrotik for routing, try to use Airmax on the wireless for more Client density on single AP. I would not suggest to mix equipment, stick with one brand.
On the NOC mikrotik is very flexible, don't worry about upgrading it handles a lot of clients with a solid pc hardware.

What you mostly need to plan upfront is a the radius billing software that will do the authentication method that you are interested and that will fulfill all your requirement.
There are a lot of radius solutions, but you need to pick up a serious one for 20k clients. That is the biggest and smartest investment that you will make, try to find one that fits your needs, a good radius makes your life much easier cose it is impossible to handle more than few hundred clients without a nice radius billing software.
One the side note... I am a little skeptical of reaching 20k clients with standard wi-fi equipment, but few thousands is doable. with a proper planing network, a professional staff, a broad coverage area it is doable. if the area is not so broad you will kill your network with self interference trying to cover too many clients on a small coverage area.


newbee777

@terra.net.lb
Also , If any one can provide me with a diagram of what equipments are used and how are they connected , to understand the concept of the network. "how are the access point , routers , radius server ...etc are connected to create the network"


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to newbee777
said by newbee777 :

3- web interface authentication, so each customer connects to the wireless then is directed to a page were he must submits his username and password

That leads me to think you will have laptops connecting.

20,000 laptop users could very well require over 500 access points. About $700,000 by the time your are finished. Asking how to be lead by the hand in a forum for that kind of investment is not a good approach.


ponline

join:2004-03-04
presheva
reply to newbee777
If your goals were starting a small neighborhood WISP or wireless network covering your yard there are a lot of people on this forum willing to help. You can see that (if you search )there are a lot of people who started in this forum (including me) but they were way more focused on what they want and their expectation were much lower than yours, also they had some prior knowledge on wireless or essential networking (or both).
I tried to give you some fundamental direction for doing what you want, but there is no such diagram or all-in-one post that will help you understand the concept of networking or wireless networking without prior knowledge for achieving your goal. There is no easy way to do this.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to newbee777
said by newbee777 :

Also , If any one can provide me with a diagram of what equipments are used

Judging from your questions, I'd say you are at least two years from signing up your first customer.
»wndw.net/download.html

bdnhsv

join:2012-01-20
Huntsville, AL
reply to newbee777
No - actually trying to do what you want with all consumer grade wifi AP's means way more equipment and way more service calls and headaches.

What is your total budget to get this running?

What is your timeframe to get this running?

How much capital do you have in reserve to sustain your losses for the first 5 years?